Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I have a question for Zoravar and Armenian; would you say that tanks are becoming obsolete because of the latest incarnations of anti-tank weaponry? and if so, what about jet fighters?

Many heated debates came out of the Summer 2006 Lebanon war where Hezbollah used advanced Russian made KORNET anti-tank missiles against Israeli top of the line MERKAVA tanks with good success. There are various opinions, but no army in the world is dismissing the tank yet.

Anti-tank weaponry is not new. They were introduced as soon as tanks were created (World War I).

The anti-tank gun, the BAZOOKA, the German PANZERFAUST, the RPG, ATGMs were all created during time to comabt tanks. New and improved models are being introduced all the time.

In the meanwhile, tanks are not sitting idle. Armour is not longer a chunk of steel. There are layered, reactive, Chobham type of armour etc. etc. New and improved tanks with better armour, speed and weaponry are being designed too.

Its a never ending game. History shows that for every new weapon there will be counter.

Tactics are very important too. You cannot use tanks in the Vietnam jungles the same way you use them in the Iraq desert or the hills of South Lebanon. Sometimes tanks have to charge in mass at high speed to overwhelm anti-tank defenses. Other times tanks should advance behind infantry which will deal with the antitank defenses etc.etc. I should also mention that tanks usualy advance with artillery cover and air support. It takes a lot of nerve for the anti-tank missile operators to concentrate on a target that is firing back...

So, in short, the tank is not made obsolete yet.

It seems that Armenia should continue to concentrate on anti-tank and anti-aircraft technology {maybe they are}, would you agree?

As mentioned in my post about our anti-tank defenses: by judging from our army photographs, I can assure you that we have ample anti-tank defenses. It is a very cost-effective way to protect ourselves. The mountainous and forested terrain of Artsakh is almost ideal in providing our defenses a multitude of ambush configurations, choices and opportunities.

As for air-defenses, stay tuned for a further analysis of our means to combat the numerically superior Azeri airforce.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azeri attack on March 4, 2008.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5kgH38G7tc

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Three Azerbaijani army soldiers die during trainings in Nakhchivan - UPDATED

24 September 2008 [14:40] - Today.Az
Three servicemen of Azerbaijani armed forces died during the trainings in the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic, reported spokesman for Azerbaijan's Defense Ministry Eldar Sabiroghlu.

He said the incident occurred during firing from a tank.

Sabiroghlu said that one of the shells exploded in the tank tube, killing all the three members of the tank crew.

The deceased are:

- Serviceman Orujev Asif Hasan oghlu, 1989, recruited by the Lachin region military enlistment office in July of 2007;

- Serviceman Mamedov Rauf Ilgar oghlu, 1989, recruited by the Goychay region military enlistment office in July of 2007;

- Serviceman Adiyev Mais Tahir oghlu, 1977, recruited by Yardimli region military enlistment office in May of 2000.

May them rest in piece!

Baboon source http://www.today.az/news/society/47798.html

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Besdies the great news, check the bolded "May them rest in piece! (sic)". I can't agree more, may 'them' rest in pieces!

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Celestial Gladiators: Air defenses

Vertical launch of a S-300 anti aircraft missile.

During the early 90's Nagorno-Karabagh conflict, Azerbaijan possessed a sizable air force that included jet fighters of various types as well as helicopter gunships. Armenia, on the other hand, had to do with just a handful of armed and transport helicopters that were mostly employed to ferry supplies to the front and evacuate the wounded and refugees.

The Azeri jets targeted our front line defenses as well as cities. They did so without facing much opposition from our side. In addition to some Soviet trained Azeri pilots, they were using the services of a number of mercenaries from Russia, Ukraine and elsewhere.

As the conflict dragged, Armenian air defense became more potent by the day. Various types of Surface to Air missiles became operational and began taking a toll from the attacking aircraft. Towards the end of the conflict, and after loosing over 25 aircraft and helicopters, the Azeri air arm became ineffective.

Both air forces have re-equipped and rearmed since then, but the military balance in the skies is not much different. The Azeris have a much larger air arm.

Today, we do have about 15 jet aircraft. They are Russian made Sukhoi Su-25 ground attack strike airplanes. Very effective airplanes in bombing and strafing enemy positions, but unsuitable for defending our airspace.

The Azeris have a multitude of attack models including Su-24 and Su-25. They also have in their inventory, Mig-21, Mig-25 and Mig-29 air defense fighters and interceptors that can also do limited bombing missions. They have also ordered Chinese aircraft. Total numbers of flyable jet aircraft are well over 60.

Thanks to their oil revenues, the Azeris are in position to have and operate a large airforce. With our smaller economy we had to resort to a different way of protecting the skies over our homeland: SAMs and AA artillery.

Today, we have the best air defense system in the whole region. Here is what we use:

1. Point defense systems:

IGLA man portable anti-air missile

ZSU-23-4 SHILKA anti-aircraft artillery

Our point defense assets have already proven themselves during the war. Their job is to protect our troops on the battlefield from attacking aircraft and helicopter gunships. There are man-portable STRELA (arrow) and IGLA (needle) surface to air missiles that are infra-red guided with a range of 4 km.
We also rely on fast firing anti aircraft guns. The most common ones are of 23mm caliber. Effective range is up to 3000m. The fixed ones are optically aimed. The most effective is the mobile SHILKA that fires 4000 rounds per minutes from its 4 guns and is aimed by radar.

2. Longer range systems:

A photo from 1999. An old S-75 (SA-2) on parade in Yerevan.

OSA (SA-8) Surface to air misile complex. Following them are S-125 missiles

S-300 air denial SAMs on parade in Moscow.

S-300V missiles like the ones deployed by by the Russian contingent near Gyumri.

Our air defense network uses various types of Surface to Air Missile (SAM) complexes. They range from the old S-75 (SA-2) which is now used mainly for training to the most potent S-300.

The S-300 is superior to any type of SAMs that are in the arsenals of Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia or Iran. Its range is over 100 km.
It is an area denial missile that will make any air raid against Armenia a very difficult and dangerous proposition.

The long range S-300 does not work alone. It is integrated within a network that also comprises other types of SAMs including the S-75 (50 km), S-125 (30 km), KRUG (70 km) and the OSA (10 km).

The Russian forces stationed near Gyumri also have the S-300V model which is completely different from our S-300. They also use the KUB (35 km).

To my understanding, the Armenian and Russian manned SAM systems are integrated with each other and form a complete and comprehensive air defense network over Armenia. The squadron of Russian manned Mig-29 fighters based in Erebuni will operate within this air defense network.

Our brothers and sisters in Armenia can sleep with peace of mind. Trained professionals are watching the skies for them.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What are the differences between the S-300 and the S-300V?

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What are the differences between the S-300 and the S-300V?

They have nothing in common.

The S-300 is used by the Russian PVO (air defense) to defend important locations in their homeland.

The S-300V is used by the Russian Army. It moves with ground forces to protect them from air attacks.

The basically do the same thing: shoot anything that flies including airplanes, helicopters and missiles. The S-300 is a bit better against cruise missiles while the S-300V is a bit better against tactical balistic missiles.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

And in your opinion, what is the best post cold war tank?

Al-Khalid · Ariete · Arjun · Challenger 2 · K1 88 · Leclerc · Leopard 2 · M1 Abrams · Merkava · PT-91 Twardy · T-84 · T-90 · TAM · Type 90 · Type 96 · Type 99 · Zulfiqar

The above is a list I got from wikipedia.

[meline]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

And in your opinion, what is the best post cold war tank?

Al-Khalid · Ariete · Arjun · Challenger 2 · K1 88 · Leclerc · Leopard 2 · M1 Abrams · Merkava · PT-91 Twardy · T-84 · T-90 · TAM · Type 90 · Type 96 · Type 99 · Zulfiqar

The above is a list I got from wikipedia.

Could you please compare the Merkava (Israeli) and the Zulfiqar (Iranian). Thanks Zoravar

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Could you please compare the Merkava (Israeli) and the Zulfiqar (Iranian). Thanks Zoravar

The Merkava should be much superior to the Zulfiqar since the latter is based on (and probably reverse engineered from) the M60 Patton American tanks but seeing as how the Merkava tank got owned by Hizballah which has an arsenal of Iranian/Syrian/Russian weapons, Iran should have no problems dealing with it. Of course, Israel will never launch a ground war with Iran.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

.... tanks are becoming obsolete because of the latest incarnations of anti-tank weaponry?

In my view, yes.
Most Iraqi tanks were distroyed in less than a week.
Draging steel for protection is a concept of the past. You will be better off moving the artillery without any steel wall ... at least you might have a chance to escape the RPG. The walls are creating an ideal furnance that is hard to drag. The future of combats is light weight, independent soldiers with hi tech communications and small and powerful weaponry.

This might come across as unorthodox. Watch this video and imagine an army equipped with these unites to move fast or moving on the same track in a mine field ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIU1e0xlqZA