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What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

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  • #21
    Re: What are the N.K. borders?

    Disputed territories: Karabakh insists on the country’s current area plus Shahumyan region


    Karabakh’s silence in the highlight of the activated discussions on the Karabakh issue settlement is taken by many in Armenia as a sign of agreement with the Armenian authorities. However, Chairman of NKR Parliament Committee Vahram Atanesyan declared at his press conference held in Yerevan that there is an essential difference between Armenia’s approach and that of Karabakh.

    Atanesyan stressed that Karabakh has its own approach to the settlement of the conflict, quite different from Armenia’s standpoint on the issue. One of the main differences, as Atanesyan said, is that NKR has only one priority and that is international recognition. The issue of lands and all discussions in this respect Karabakh considers irrelevant at this moment.

    Karabakh insists on preserving its current boarders
    “Karabakh has one vital task- to achieve recognition of NKR’s independence within borders acceptable to the people of Karabakh, given that the priority of national security system is observed,” said Atanesyan. He emphasized that country borders acceptable for the people of Karabakh are stated in the NKR Constitution, which says that until recovering the territorial integrity of NKR its sovereignty applies to the factual territory of the republic. Recovery of territorial integrity of NKR implies return of the occupied Shahumyan region which, Atanesyan says, is a part of NKR.

    In 1991 NKR was declared on the territory of Soviet Autonomous Region of Nagorno Karabakh (ARNK) and Azerbaijan’s Shahumyan region. As a result of the 1991-94 war, the Shahumyan region and a number of lands belonging to the former ARNK passed to Azerbaijan and Armenian forces of Karabakh took 7 regions not included in former ARNK under their control. The NKR Constitution consolidates the current borders of NKR and that its territorial integrity has to be recovered.

    NKR President Bako Sahakyan suggests that the definition “liberated lands” should be forgotten. In early November at his meeting with the residents of Kashatagh (former Lachin) and Shahumyan (former Kelbajar) regions the president said that the so called liberated territories are nothing more than lands consolidated by the NKR Constitution. Accordingly, an adequate perception of those lands has to be expected on the part of its residents, citizens of NKR.

    The Kashatagh region is approximately as big as the former ARNK, and conditions there are deplorable, because whatever has been done during the post war period is not enough to overcome the desolation caused by the war.

    “One of the main factors hindering the development of the region is the residents’ uncertainty concerning the region’s status,” President Sahakyan said. Uncertainty generates negative consequences, such as, the fact that the settlers are not in a hurry to acquire permanent addresses. “Don’t believe absurd rumors,” he said. “This is our country. And this is your land. They were liberated lands in early 90s. That’s history now. Our country has entered the stage of modern history. And for as long as Artsakh exists- and I can assure you it always will- this region will exist as well.”

    A project for 2009 is under way aimed at the region’s social-economic development. Supposedly 5 billion drams ($165 million) will be allotted to that project (almost twice more than total allocations of all post-war years).

    Opinions in Armenia are not unanimous in these terms. Even among radical opposition- the All-Armenian National Congress (ANC) lead by Levon Ter-Petrosyan - there isn’t a common opinion about the issue. As ANC coordinator Levon Zurabyan says, one part thinks that concessions are inevitable, the other that nobody is forcing Armenia to concede.

    The most important thing, though, both in Armenia and in Karabakh is the recent speculations that the settlement of the issue is not around the corner, as Ter-Petrosyan and international mediators have been assuring. The opposition leader until now keeps saying that the Karabakh knot will be undone already this December. Mediators repeat the same thing saying that “the current level of mutual respect between the presidents of Armenia and Azebaijan” serves as a ground for hope that the main principles will soon be agreed upon.

    Recent speculations in Azerbaijan over the need to amend their constitution are another proof that the parties are reaching an “accord” on settlement principles. As Azerbaijani political analyst Mubariz Akhmedoglu said in his interview to Day.az, “amendments concerning Karabakh” will soon be moved to the constitution. It can be assumed that amendments will be on the status of Karabakh , which, according to the constitution of Azerbaijan, is a part of their republic. On the other hand, the Armenian authorities assure that the issue won’t be settled so soon and that even after agreeing upon principles, a number of documents must be signed, discussed etc.

    Most probably, everybody understands the word “outcome” in their own way. Those who are talking about impending settlement think that bringing the principles to an accord already means that the conflict is settled. The rest is mere technicality. To supporters of the “remote” settlement the outcome means signing a treaty of peace. And between those two “outcomes” is where Karabakhis live, understanding that agreeing on principles would mean loss of the security zone together with security itself. It is for that reason that they are wary of the current course of settlement.

    Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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    • #22
      Re: What are the N.K. borders?

      One of the best developments in the past few weeks has been the recent upsurge of Armenian people demanding we eliminate the usage of fake Stalinian borders of NK. I am very pleased and hope the government will follow suit. I wish I was in Armenia to participate in this.
      ----------------------------------------------------
      Protestors Demand Media Use “Correct” Karabakh Maps

      [ 24 December 2008 | 13:35 ] Karabakh, politics |

      Early this morning members of Armenia’s internet community, bloggers and members of youth NGO’s gathered in front of the Geodesic and Cartography Institute in Yerevan and staged a protest of sorts regarding the maps of the Karabakh that are still being published by the institute. The protesters started to hand out maps which portray the present borders of the Republic of Karabakh as those of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region in Soviet Azerbaijan. That is to say, maps used by the mass media in Armenia still do not represent the RMK as including the liberated territories. This fact, in the view of those who staged the protest, is not only a slap in the face to those who fought and died in the Karabakh war of liberation but also a major public relations error.

      The protest was staged in support of the December 9th initiative of the youth in Artsakh regarding the incorrect representation of their republic. “We wish to stand alongside our friends in Artsakh. We also want to pay respect to the memory of those who perished on those territories and to pay respect to those presently living there,” declared Tigran Kocharyan, one of the organizers of the event and Vice-President of the “Yerevan Experts Club” The organizers had sent letters to all media outlets, pointing out their concerns and correct maps and DVD’s were personally handed to the most influential media outlets who still use the old Karabakh maps during their broadcasts, especially during the weather report. These include “Shant” and “H2″ TV stations and those that use “Meteo-TV” maps.

      “Hetq” staffers also joined one of the groups handed out the maps and went to the headquarters of “Shant TV” where they met with station management who posed a number of lengthy questions to the young protestors, including what they expected by handing out the new maps and DVD’s. Management finally accepted the items and promised to relay the matter to station directors. Upon exiting, the participants bumped into “Shant TV” anchor Nver Mnatsakanyan who promised to personally get involved in resolving the error.

      Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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      • #23
        Re: What are the N.K. borders?

        BTW, we are also part of the Armenian internet community so our voices should be heard as well.

        We should categorically reject every map of NK that we see on the Internet that features it as an enclave. I encourage everyone to stop using those kinds of maps themselves and when they see someone using it, to notify them that they are wrong and show them the correct one. Do this with institutions as well, contact them via emails and complain to them that their map is the wrong one. It's disturbing that Armenian sites have not realized this!

        If you do not understand which map I am talking about and why, then you can consult this thread which explains with pictures and all.

        Examples of maps not to use:




        Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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        • #24
          Re: What are the N.K. borders?

          Examples of maps that should be encouraged






          Last edited by Federate; 12-24-2008, 11:14 AM.
          Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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          • #25
            Re: What are the N.K. borders?

            regarding recommended maps there is a correction to effect which is by deleting the word karabakh and replace it with artsakh (already explained reason in detail in another thread)

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            • #26
              Re: What are the N.K. borders?

              Originally posted by vasbourakan1 View Post
              regarding recommended maps there is a correction to effect which is by deleting the word karabakh and replace it with artsakh (already explained reason in detail in another thread)
              On an international level, the NK terminology will have to stay for awhile because that is beyond out control. However, yes, we should purge that Perso-Turkic word out of our language because we have no reason to keep it in Armenian, given the fact that it's our land and we have renamed pretty much all* the former Turkic names from towns and villages in Armenia.

              *A notable exception is the town Allahverdi, disguised as "Alaverdi". In Turkish, this means "God-given" and is a very common name but we pretend it comes from Armenian "red-stone" (Ալ-վերտ).
              Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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              • #27
                Re: What are the N.K. borders?

                well Fed, I could say I agree with you and disagree. the fact is that all the towns and villages bearing armenian names in turkey and azerbaijan have been turkisized during the past 150 years, I mean who remembers paghesh, gaboudag, chmshgazaghk, marzvan, etc tens and tens to name, and who knows that erzingan is yerzenka, and erzerum is garine or merdin is dikranagert. the only place which the turks have been unable to change its name despite all their efforts and remodeled maps is ararat because this name appeares in the bible such as. why all this long foregoing, because every single place's name has its roots linked to something closely related to armenian history or armenians or their customs, so I will never accept the name of karapagh which means litteraly black forest - the forests there are not black at all- but rather adopt it's real name artsakh which has it's roots from the armenian mythology -ara's forest, ara tsakh which with time transformed to artsakh, ara being ara keghetsik who used to hunt deers there.

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                • #28
                  Re: What are the N.K. borders?

                  Here are a couple of other examples of acceptable maps of Armenia and Artsakh.
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------


                  Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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                  • #29
                    Re: What are the N.K. borders?

                    I'd like to see a map with no border between Armenia and Artsakh, as Artsakh is an Armenian marz (province).
                    For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                    to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                    http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

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                    • #30
                      Re: What are the N.K. borders?

                      More about above, I am happy this is starting to be taken care of. Play your part!
                      ------------------------------------------------------------
                      Karabakh Borders: De jure, de facto, de TV



                      In December of 2008 representatives of Karabakh’s youth organizations sent a letter to Armenian president Serjh Sargsyan asking him to use his influence to have “weather forecasts” on Armenian TV channels quit using maps in which Armenia and Karabakh are shown within the borders they had in 1988. On these maps Nagorno Karabakh is presented within the borders of former Autonomous Region of Nagorno Karabakh (ARNK, as a part of Azerbaijani SSR) and Lachin corridor (connecting Armenia and NKR) isn’t there at all.

                      For 20 years Karabakh has had no connection to Azerbaijan, has been building an independent – if unrecognized – statehood, establishing interstate relations with Armenia, meanwhile Armenia hasn’t decided yet whether or not to recognize Karabakh’s independence.

                      Despite the letter being actively circulated on the Internet, Armenian TV channels, however, did not pay much attention to it (except for Yerkir Media TV). Being unable to decide which map to use in their weather forecast programs and in order to avoid any complications on border issues they keep using the 1988 map as if the last 20 years have not existed at all.

                      Does the government have a unanimous standpoint and conception on the Karabakh issue settlement? On December 3, Heritage faction deputy Larisa Alaverdyan raised the issue in the parliament of Armenia, to which Prime-Minister Tigran Sargsyan responded by admitting that such a problem does exist. Alaverdyan pointed out that during weather forecast Armenian TV channels demonstrate a map on which there is no linking line between Armenia and Karabakh, and Karabakh is shown within the borders of former ARNK. Alaverdyan stated that it’s not simply a distortion of reality, but also a violation of NKR Constitution and legislation, according to which NKR sovereignty applies to its current administrative territory.

                      The letter by NKR youth organizations says that “the war crossed out artificial and unviable borders of ARNK forced upon the Armenian people”, and that “the NKR Constitution adopted as a result of the referendum held in 2006, consolidated sovereign borders of the Armenian land liberated at the cost of blood of the best sons of our nation”.

                      “The fact of ignoring one way or another -be it ideologically or in real politics- the victory of the Armenian nation and its results not only disregards the memory of fallen heroes, but also encourages a new armed aggression against the Armenian statehood,” says the letter.

                      A few days later a number of Armenian NGOs and individuals joined the statement of youth organizations by sending an open letter to the heads of Armenian mass media.

                      The authors of the letter state that 14 years after calling a truce a peculiar situation has formed: the objective reality of including those regions into NKR, which once were a part of Azerbaijani SSR, is not anyhow reflected in Armenian mass media, commercials or brochures. NKR is either absent from maps or is shown within the borders of former ARNK.

                      “Such maps are a violation of Article 142 of NKR Constitution according to which ‘until the integrity of the state territory of the Republic of Nagorno Karabakh is restored and borders are precisely defined public authority is implemented on the territory which is de facto under the jurisdiction of the Republic of Nagorno Karabakh’ ,” quotes the letter.

                      The letter further calls upon mass media not to avoid showing the acting real borders, actively cover life on the liberated lands and inform citizens of Armenia about the strategic role of those lands (the letter had 62 signatures).

                      The issue of maps has been important since the very beginning of the Karabakh conflict, and ever since Internet came along it has become urgent. Armenian websites demonstrate a surprising tolerance by posting maps where Karabakh is a part of Azerbaijan. On brochure maps produced by many tourism agencies printed in Armenia the borders of Karabakh do not match today’s reality.

                      Meanwhile, maps and catalogues produced abroad are more accurate, so much that Azerbaijan is putting up a struggle against them. Day.az site posted a list of travel SIM cards on which Karabakh is shown as a part of Armenia or as a separate country. Those are: GSM-Travel, SIMTRAVEL, Travel International SIM Card, produced by In Touch company, Smart cards (USA), travel SIM cards produced by telecommunication company Oneroam (Great Britain), GO-SIM™ cards, GLOBALSIM cards, produced by HBSGlobal and many others; the list was a full 5 pages long.

                      So the situation arises in which Azerbaijani channels in their daily weather forecast speak about Karabakh as their inseparable part, and Armenian channels, by default, confirm.

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