Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

[Mos]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

we should normalize, but at the same time be careful and keep our distance. We can't forget how Turkey has deceived us in the past. We will never forget.

[truAnatolian]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

lol...Eastern Turkey is very underdeveloped, lack of electricity is a major issue I dont know where your geting your info from....The only decent turks are in constantinople.

Pakis are just extremists which Indians would xxxx up the ars if they get the chance, so they will never get distracted with "turkey". Chechens are under chain and ball by the Northern Bear. I personally know many Syrians and the only thing they have in common with Turkey is the Kurds, actually they have a great affinity and respect for Armenians so I don't think a few imams count as the peoples support for Turkey. The other arab countries know of your love-affair with Israel so no go on that one. Central Asian Turks couldn't care less about your Turanian dreams, a partial thanks to our Northern Bear friend again. What was that other one... Algeria or Albania? I can't remember because im laughing to hard at the tought.....

Basically No one likes Turks, oh and Germans HATE HATE HATE you turd nuggets in their country and second to them is France. OH and Uyghurs are the getting Owned by China.... You really wanna xxxx with China too? South Korea has the largest proportion of christians out of any asian country so Thanks but no thanks wit that one and North Korea again is under the influence of our Northern Bear friend (gotta love em!).

Whose left.....Mongolia? Lol they're still fighting on horseback. Azeri's: Baboons with technology.

I could go on for ever..... Point being, Turkey is gonna get Frrrrrrrucked.

[seruven]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

@SoyElTurco
Why are you starting threads that will provoke Armenians? To what good does it serve?

As for borders, had it not been mutually beneficial to open them, they wouldn't have argued over this issue that much. Besides, these governments preserve their right to make laws and control their customs/land, right?
And this silly country contest.. Of course, it is nice to be loved by other nations. But it's not a really big deal. Historically Turks and Russians have always been rivals. But nowadays they are major business partners.

we should normalize, but at the same time be careful and keep our distance. We can't forget how Turkey has deceived us in the past. We will never forget.

That's it, I guess.

[Palavra]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

@SoyElTurco
Why are you starting threads that will provoke Armenians? To what good does it serve?

Haha do you realy think, we need to open a thread to provoke armenians? Even becoming a Turk is a big provocation for them.

[seruven]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

Haha do you realy think, we need to open a thread to provoke armenians? Even becoming a Turk is a big provocation for them.

Being a Turk automatically makes you a target for some of the Armenians. However, you can't deny that it goes for the Turks as well and some of us automatically counts Armenians as enemies.
It's absurd for a Turk to come to an Armenian forum, deepen the existing hatred, discuss why Armenians could not found a great empire, mentioning about Mt.Ağrı, etc. Most of them already hate us.
Another thing my brother, if you prefer to start the word "Turk" with capital letter, please also show the same respect for other nations. I guess, you already know the famous story about Ataturk and the Greek flag, right?
Cheers,
s.

[Palavra]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

Being a Turk automatically makes you a target for some of the Armenians. However, you can't deny that it goes for the Turks as well and some of us automatically counts Armenians as enemies.

Yep both nations are mentally ill. But Turkish stupidy does not justify armenian one and I am not sure which nation is more stupid.For know, I go for armenian one.(Just because they are more powerless, they are more obsessed with Turkey.)

It's absurd for a Turk to come to an Armenian forum, deepen the existing hatred, discuss why Armenians could not found a great empire, mentioning about Mt.Ağrı, etc.

I think, He is having his fun. Or He is a big idiot who think internet is a war arena.. Or maybe he think, armenians should use their brain for different reasons than genocide issue.(Like their own nation future.)

Anyway, mentioning of armenian genocide will make turks anger(And deepen hatred).So should armenians stop to talk about it?

Most of them already hate us.

Yep a national illness but so why should we suffer because of their illness?

Another thing my brother, if you prefer to start the word "Turk" with capital letter, please also show the same respect for other nations. I guess, you already know the famous story about Ataturk and the Greek flag, right?
Cheers,

Good point.Anyway, I am not doing it deliberately. I can write ARMENIA and turkey too. Not a big problem.

By the way, same Ataturk let exile of greeks from anatolia and exile of turks from greece(Yep, Both greece and turkey is agree about it but what about people who are exiled from their country.). I am sure, people are much more important than flags. (So I do not take Ataturk as a role model, when It comes to nationalism.)

[yerazhishda]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

Yep both nations are mentally ill. But Turkish stupidy does not justify armenian one and I am not sure which nation is more stupid.For know, I go for armenian one.(Just because they are more powerless, they are more obsessed with Turkey.)

Russia=Armenia. Is that weak to you?

I think, He is having his fun. Or He is a big idiot who think internet is a war arena.. Or maybe he think, armenians should use their brain for different reasons than genocide issue.(Like their own nation future.)

Ahhhh but the 'Genocide issue' is part of Armenia's future. Turkey will have to recognize it at some point. We will get our lands back.

Anyway, mentioning of armenian genocide will make turks anger(And deepen hatred).So should armenians stop to talk about it?

I have an Armenian cucumber. Maybe you can choke on it some time.

[Palavra]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

Russia=Armenia. Is that weak to you?

We both know Russia can sell armenia If Azeris or Turks offer their alliance(and russia trust it.)

Armenia is just a peon not king at chess..

By the way how economically russia helped you?

Ahhhh but the 'Genocide issue' is part of Armenia's future. Turkey will have to recognize it at some point. We will get our lands back.

Or your nation will extinct.(Like ours.)

Even Turkey recognize it She will not give any thing back to ROA.. I should also add that Turkey role over world politic is increasing not decreasing.. I do not see any recognize of genocide at short or middle term.. Long term. You know everyone of us will die at long term..

[Armanen]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

turkey has so many issues that I would not be suprised to see a major revolution in the near future. The Armenian Question, Kurdish Question, the so called deep state vs. akp and the islamists, and mild to weak relations with many of its neighbors.



Erdoрan will have to pay for the policy that takes Turkey back to the times of the Ottoman Empire

Once again the AKP may appear before the court, but we should bear it in mind that about 60% of the population voted for it, and it was not a voting under pressure.
The Supreme Court of Turkey accused Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoрan of undermining the country's founding principle of secularism. The Court made such an announcement voicing the decision of fining the Justice and Development Party (AKP) led by Erdoрan. According to the Court the Prime-Minister violated Article 68 of the Constitution, which establishes Turkey as a secular state. Erdoрan was reminded about his attempt to lift the ban on female students wearing Muslim headscarves in universities and lower the minimum age at which students attend Koranic classes.

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Supreme Court also dwelt on the Prime-Minister’s other statements, especially on his phrase stating that religion is the basis of the Turkish society. The story began still back in the spring of 2008, when the Prosecutor General of Turkey filed a lawsuit in the Constitutional Court demanding the closure of the AKP, the ruling party of Turkey. Only 2 votes lacked then for banning the activity of the AK party. The Court decided not to close the party then, but it made a resolution to cut off state funding to it.

The accusation against Erdoрan is related to the charge against “Ergenekon”, whose members, according to the charge version, prepared state overturn. It should be noted here that there used to be a silent agreement between the Kemalists and the AKP not to harm each other. However under certain circumstances the agreement was broken. The organization now consists of high-ranking military officers, well-known journalists, and politicians. In all probability “Ergenekon” truly attempted to overthrow the Islamist-rooted Government, realizing perfectly that it is leading Turkey through the same path of Iran. And all the talks about readiness to continue reforms for integration into the EU are nothing more than just talks. In fact, 80 per cent of the population are religious Muslims and they share neither make up with Europe nor relations with the USA. On this background there is a new war breaking out against Kurdish rebels, who have been struggling against Ankara for 30 years and are in no way going to surrender. Failures of Turkish regular forces, the inability to solve the Kurdish problem and the Cyprus problem, not to mention the relations with Armenia seriously destroyed the image of Erdogan government. Actually the Turkish Prime-Minister will have to pay for the policy that does not lead Turkey to prosperity, but takes it back to the times of the Ottoman Empire. Beyond doubt, bases of the Republic founded by Ataturk are pretty far from the Turkish mentality. Ataturk was able to make Turks change at least in appearance. But it was impossible to achieve a final adaptation: Islam does not tolerate shifts from certain dogmas. The only power that represents Kemalism is the General Staff of Turkey, but, according to the Turkish press, it has been weakening its positions lately. More and more officers are bending towards the AKP as the only power capable of rescuing the Turkish Government from collapse. And that the Turkish Government will collapse is beyond doubt as the way of searching one’s identity is full of difficulties.

Alongside with all these issues the problem of recognizing the Armenian Genocide again comes to the fore. Here a great role is also played by the upcoming US Presidential Elections and by aspiration of Turkey to play a leading role in the process of stabilizing the atmosphere in the Caucasus. However, Ankara is reluctant to shift its positions. President Abdullah Gul once more declares that “Everybody was in a state of war at that time (i.e. in 1915). Armenian citizens of the Ottoman Turkey defected to the enemy, while our troops fought on three fronts.” Nothing new can be observed in his statements. We see the same attempts of shifting the blame on the victim. “We have opened all our archive files, even the top secret ones. So, let historians study the issue,” the Turkish President said.

Meanwhile the President assures that he is happy to visit Armenia. “We can't be enemies forever. The Armenian Diaspora impedes normalization of relations between Turkey and Armenia. In spite of all the difficulties I am optimistic about the future. I call for all the interested sides to help with the existing problems: the press, the minorities, the Diaspora. I call for good sense and assistance in normalization of relations between our states,” Abdullah Gul added.

All this is good of course, if we do not take into account the already traditional accusations against the Armenian Diaspora, and the Armenian nation, who simply strive for recognition of mass killings. By the way, recognition of the Genocide will ease Turkey’s way into the EU. Besides, Turkey will finally become a more civilized country that does not evade its history. However, the latter is rather unlikely to happen.

It is quite probable that the AKP once again appears before the court, but we should bear it in mind that about 60% of the population voted for it, and it was not a voting under pressure.

Karine Ter-Sahakyan

http://www.panarmenian.net/details/eng/?nid=946

[gmd]

Re: Normalized Relations between Türkler ve Ermeniler.

Turkey And The Caucasus: Can They Be Friendly Neighbors?
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:20:32 +0400 (AMT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TURKEY AND THE CAUCASUS: CAN THEY BE FRIENDLY NEIGHBORS?
Samvel Martirosyan (Armenia)

en.fondsk.ru
03.11.2008

Turkey took advantage of the radical changes that took place in the Caucasus as the result of the Five-Day War to implement a reorientation of its international policy.

While the fighting was raging it was already clear that Ankara was going to start playing a bigger role in the Caucasus. During the active phase of the conflict, Turkey made political maneuvers between the countries involved concerning the passage of the NATO Navy via the Black Sea straits (1).

Immediately upon the end of the hostilities Ankara floated the
initiative of creating a platform for security and stability in
the Caucasus inviting Russia, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan to participate. Despite being the most controversial participants of the project, Moscow and Yerevan unexpectedly expressed support for the platform (2).

Imperialism: the Turkish Disease For Turkey, the South Caucasus is important not only from the standpoint of geopolitics, but also as the region relevant to the future of the country's political elites which are currently plagued by ideological strife. The conflict between the ruling Islamist party and the secular army has disoriented the country: it is uncertain whether Turkey is going to opt for Europeization with
an admixture of nationalism or for radical Islamization.

Turkey is a country with profoundly imperialist traditions, but had to remain confined to its borders for a protracted period of time. The contradiction has led to a serious identity crisis. An empire that is not expanding is bound to sink into chaos, which is exactly what is currently taking place in Turkey.

The situation in the Middle East has changed fundamentally due to the end of the Cold War and the two Gulf Wars. The US troops gained strongholds in the region and Washington no longer needs a strong Turkey which used to help it implement its polices. Consequently, the space for maneuvers available to Ankara is shrinking, and Washington makes efforts to sideline it as an undesirable competitor.

For the Turkish elite, the activity in the Caucasian direction can
serve as a unifying factor. At the moment, Transcaucasia is the region where Ankara can adhere to an independent national course equally free from the pressure of the West and the politicized Islam. Ankara can rely on Azerbaijan which is its obedient ally in the region, and can interact with Georgia which - due to the crisis of its own statehood - has sought maximal rapprochement with Turkey. All that Ankara had to
do was to choose the right moment to drag the "problematic" Armenia and Russia - Turkey's traditional rival in the Caucasus - into the orbit of its policy.

A Turkish Breakthrough?

Is it fair to say that, having found the intelligent decision and
taken advantage of the chaos in the region, Ankara managed to make inroads into the South Caucasus? More precisely, Turkey used the recent complications to start implementing its old plan of penetrating the region which remained out of its reach for a long time. Turkey's relations with Armenia - the neighbor country with which it had particularly strained relations - highlight the above.

A survey of the relations between Turkey and Armenia shows that Turkey's snap advent to the Caucasus has been carefully planned ahead. An unprecedented political development had taken place in September, 2008 - Turkish President Abdullah Gul attended a soccer game in Yerevan at the invitation of Serzh Sargsyan. Considering that there are no diplomatic relations between Turkey and Armenia and the relations between them are burdened with the legacy of a bloody conflict, the casual meeting of the two leaders was an extraordinary event which triggered discussions of a "breakthrough" and a possible normalization.

Armenia was involved in talks behind closed doors about the
normalization of the relations with Turkey at least months before Gul's visit to Yerevan. On the surface, it appeared that the rapprochement was induced by the Five-Day War, but in reality the conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia merely catalyzed the process that had to commence anyhow.

The condition of the relations between Turkey and Armenia started to evolve incredibly fast. On the one hand, it is an unexpected breakthrough. On the other, it is unlikely that the new trend is explained solely by a sudden drive for better relations in Ankara and Yerevan. Probably, the prompt rapprochement scenario had been prepared already under President R. Kocharyan and awaited for the right moment to be put into practice.

Otherwise it would be hard to explain how it became possible to
reach the deal to supply electric power from Armenia to Turkey,
to convince Armenia to drop its objections to Turkey's membership in the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development and Turkey - to lift the air blockade of Armenia so quickly, etc.

It should be remembered that Sargsyan went public with his offer to improve the relations between Armenia and Turkey in June, 2008 when his presidency was in the initial phase and his domestic political positions were fairly insecure. He took serious risks floating the initiative which the Armenian society was going to frown upon. No preliminary efforts were made to prepare the public opinion to accept it, which is another indication that the snap rapprochement was planned much earlier, and the hostilities in South Ossetia merely signaled the right moment to move on.

Can Turkey Be an Ally?

Clearly, Yerevan had to act under serious Western pressure. From the perspective of Washington and Brussels, lifting the blockade at the border between Armenia and Turkey is a prologue to a shift in the balance of forces in the region as in this case Russia would no longer be Armenia's only link to the outside world and Armenia would thus get decoupled from Russia.

As a result Russia would see its potential to influence Armenia
considerably reduced.

Yet, the recent strengthening of Russia's positions in the Caucasus affected the US plan of weakening its hold on Yerevan. Under the circumstances, Ankara started to play a game of its own. By launching the process of rapprochement with Russia, Turkey has generally neutralized the influence of the West. At the same time, Russia is entrained by Turkey since the latter has the potential to influence the situation in the South Caucasus with the help of Azerbaijan and - to an extent - Georgia.

At the moment, Ankara is successfully maneuvering between Moscow, Washington, and Brussels, probing into the opportunities to expand its presence in the region.

It should be realized that Turkey regards the rapprochement with Russia as a tactical move. It would be naïve to expect that the conflict with Georgia is going to make a geopolitical alliance with Turkey or even a Russia-Turkey axis possible. The Turkish elite are fully aware that Russia is its number one rival in the Caucasus and the Black Sea region.

It appears that not everybody in Armenia welcomes the dubious plans of a snap recovery in the relations with Turkey either. Though Armenia's political elite has spent the entire September praising the corresponding achievements, already in mid-October the Armenian Prime Minister indicated in a rather harsh form that in his view the essence of Ankara's policy had remained unchanged.

Currently the process is stagnating notably, and no profound changes in the South Caucasus direction loom on the horizon. There exist such key problems that any rapid changes in the region are going to have an adverse impact on all sides unless they are resolved. One of the main key problems is, of course, that of Karabakh. Having no leverage in the conflict, Turkey is nevertheless actively seeking a role in the negotiation process. Moscow is trying to gain control over the process as well. In all likelihood, in the nearest time neither of the parties involved will be able to monopolize control over the developments around Karabakh.

There is one more significant circumstance that has to be taken into account. Some of the serious regional forces have not even joined the game so far. For example, Iran is taking its time as much as it appears possible and only occasionally reminds others that it is also a country to reckon with. No doubt, in a while Tehran will attempt to impede the emergence of any new alliances in the South Caucasus that will pose a threat to Iran.

Currently Iran is interested in maintaining the status quo. In
particular, the strengthening of Turkey's positions - and even more so its rapid rapprochement with Russia and Armenia - would be undesirable for Iran.

Therefore Tehran will try to impede the political developments in
the South Caucasus leading to the emergence of any new trends. The country certainly has the instruments to do so.