Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Look at the personal names of the "Aghvans" themselves and you tell me if you cannot see the huge number of Armenian names even if they are modified it is still easy to see.
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Artashes, do you have any scientific source relating Aghvans with Albanians of the balkans?

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Artashes, do you have any scientific source relating Aghvans with Albanians of the balkans?

The Aghvans are not related to the Albanians of the Balkans. They are related to us(Armenians).
The only relation they have to the Balkan Albanians is that aprrox. 6th century bc a part of the (Albanian?) migration moved into that area and overwhelmed the original(Armenian) population.
For scientific understanding look to best scholars on migration patterns that is established.
Lots out there if you ask the question right.
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

1st--- we were there. Approx. 6th century bc old albanians show up. Latter by many hundreds of years Parth/Pers show up.
Then hundreds years later turc/hun/Mongolics type show up.
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Artashes,
Votch mi pan tchem hasganoum.
Intchkan yess kidem, Aghvannere abrel yen Kouritz en goghm. Irantz issgagan hednortneren Udinere, Dzagournere, ... en.
Ayo garogh yen mez mod linen.
Paytz yess tchem gartatzel vor Aghvanneritz aratch, menk enk abrel Kouritz verev.
Yeghael yen haygagan pokr ishkhanoutiounner, orinag Terpendoum, Goudgashen, Vartashenoum, paytz aveli oush, yev trank knatzel yen Hayasdanits, aynbess intchbess Pyouzantiyayi orok Vanantits knatzel yen Balkanner...
Et vordeghitz menk yeghank Bakvi ou Shirvani pnignere???
Votch mi degh tchem gartatzel...???

[Vrej1915]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

1st--- we were there. Approx. 6th century bc old albanians show up. Latter by many hundreds of years Parth/Pers show up.
Then hundreds years later turc/hun/Mongolics type show up.
Artashes

OK, hasgatza intch yess ouzoum assel.

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

OK, hasgatza intch yess ouzoum assel.

You have replied to one of my posts. Unfortunately my family decided not to teach the children to speak Armenian(their personal reasons).
I would like to know what your reply to my comment was.
Might you show me that consideration?
Having said that , I do appreciate you responding in Armenian(I miss hearing the family speak it).
Artashes

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

what are you basing your theory on? On what historical work are you basing yourself on and can you provide sources for all this BS? Especially for the Albanian part that the Caucasian Albanians come from the same place as the Balkan Albanians and also a piece of work where it shows the the Balkan Albanians are not native to the Balkans.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Sorry, I did not knew.
I was saying, I had never read, that we were the indigenous people north east of the Kur river.
I was interested if you had sources.
I similarly never read any link whatsoever linking Caucasian and Balkanian 'Albanians', even in their origins, or in their original migrations.
I have a slight idea about indo-european migrations, and the different theories about them, but have a rather good idea about our national history, and as a matter of fact, being one of the oldest nations with the Persians and the Greeks, why should we trust more others than our sources?
At least ours are continuous since at least Ardashisyan dynasty...
So, to my knowledge, and according our classical knowledge, we Armenians are the result of the indigenous Ourartean and proto-Armenian (Hayasa/Nayiri...) tribes, and the mix of 'Armen' tribes (usually presented as coming in from the west, but this is still object to lot of academic disputes, even the '%' newcomers addition to the end product turns out to be largely disputed...)
Anyway, this is not the matter.
We were there much before all others, specially much before the nowday Georgians, so azaris and Turks are not even a matter, since their arrival is pretty well documented and not a subject of academic dispute, put aside their internal caricatural propaganda.
But to my knowledge, while the ethnographic borders of Armenia on the western, and southern sides are very complicated, exceeding largely the borders of Medz and Pokkr Hayks, plus I, II, III, IV Hayks (nowdays Yozgad, etc... being ethnically mix and for some times under armenian principalities, independent of the main Armenian Kingdoms)..., on the North West, in all sources, generally we admit that Armenians were limited by the Kur river.
I never read that originally, the Shirvan plain and the Absheron peninsula was inhabited by the Armenian ethnos.
Of course there were Armenian principalities and fortified towns in Vartashen, Goudgashen, Shamakh, Terpend, etc... for some periods, with sizable populations, but these were people having emigrated, with their princes/meliks, from mainly Oudik, Arsakh and Syounik, due to political events, invasions, etc... as were the case with the case of Kakhet (nowday georgianised population is directly related to Artsakh, with replication of original village and topographic names, still existing in modern Artsakh), or the princes of Vanant, Dourouperan and Dayk princes who emigrated due to Byzantine policy to the Balkans with entire populations...
Or on a totally different scale the emigration of Bagratide/Roupinians to Kilikia and Crimea after the fall of Ani....

But this does not change the fact, that the ethnos living north of the Kur was different, mainly named by us as Aghvans, with actual remains probably like the Udis, Tzakours??.... of course no link in any manner with the central asian nomads that came in later, much later, while there were arabs, persians, etc... before.
The Talysh are a people having coexisted with the Aghvans, since their place was south of Paydagaran, and had no direct contact with the Aghvans land.
At least, this is my knowledge.
And as you see, I like reading, and would be very interested, if you can give me sources indicating otherwise

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Sorry, I did not knew.
I was saying, I had never read, that we were the indigenous people north east of the Kur river.
I was interested if you had sources.
I similarly never read any link whatsoever linking Caucasian and Balkanian 'Albanians', even in their origins, or in their original migrations.
I have a slight idea about indo-european migrations, and the different theories about them, but have a rather good idea about our national history, and as a matter of fact, being one of the oldest nations with the Persians and the Greeks, why should we trust more others than our sources?
At least ours are continuous since at least Ardashisyan dynasty...
So, to my knowledge, and according our classical knowledge, we Armenians are the result of the indigenous Ourartean and proto-Armenian (Hayasa/Nayiri...) tribes, and the mix of 'Armen' tribes (usually presented as coming in from the west, but this is still object to lot of academic disputes, even the '%' newcomers addition to the end product turns out to be largely disputed...)
Anyway, this is not the matter.
We were there much before all others, specially much before the nowday Georgians, so azaris and Turks are not even a matter, since their arrival is pretty well documented and not a subject of academic dispute, put aside their internal caricatural propaganda.
But to my knowledge, while the ethnographic borders of Armenia on the western, and southern sides are very complicated, exceeding largely the borders of Medz and Pokkr Hayks, plus I, II, III, IV Hayks (nowdays Yozgad, etc... being ethnically mix and for some times under armenian principalities, independent of the main Armenian Kingdoms)..., on the North West, in all sources, generally we admit that Armenians were limited by the Kur river.
I never read that originally, the Shirvan plain and the Absheron peninsula was inhabited by the Armenian ethnos.
Of course there were Armenian principalities and fortified towns in Vartashen, Goudgashen, Shamakh, Terpend, etc... for some periods, with sizable populations, but these were people having emigrated, with their princes/meliks, from mainly Oudik, Arsakh and Syounik, due to political events, invasions, etc... as were the case with the case of Kakhet (nowday georgianised population is directly related to Artsakh, with replication of original village and topographic names, still existing in modern Artsakh), or the princes of Vanant, Dourouperan and Dayk princes who emigrated due to Byzantine policy to the Balkans with entire populations...
Or on a totally different scale the emigration of Bagratide/Roupinians to Kilikia and Crimea after the fall of Ani....

But this does not change the fact, that the ethnos living north of the Kur was different, mainly named by us as Aghvans, with actual remains probably like the Udis, Tzakours??.... of course no link in any manner with the central asian nomads that came in later, much later, while there were arabs, persians, etc... before.
The Talysh are a people having coexisted with the Aghvans, since their place was south of Paydagaran, and had no direct contact with the Aghvans land.
At least, this is my knowledge.
And as you see, I like reading, and would be very interested, if you can give me sources indicating otherwise

Yes I will get source material for you.
It is about 1:30am here so not now.
Give me two days as I'm doing this while working.
Artashes