Armenian Diaspora

[Hye]

hi to all Im new in this forum hope we would have constructive integent concersation with you all I have read many posts prior my registration but still there are many I haven't read I don't know all the issues that were discussed in this forum I hope what Im posting aren't boring repetition.
Anyway to the subjct that I want to post about actually it is a question that I have my answer and my point of view trying to get your point of view aswell. so here it goes:
Are Armenians around the world and Armenia exploiting all the potential that the Armenian diaspora has or all in all Armenians around the world tegether with Armeninas in Armenia and Artsakh? how much are we exploiting? how much more can we exploit? what should we do in order to let the Armenians around the world (specially the diaspora) work at full potential and efficiancy? Are the things done by the diaspora enoug?

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

These are all good questions, and welcome to our forum. I have been writing that it should be the priority of all armenians to build a strong and economicaly viable homeland so that our people can migrate to Armenia feeling that they have a bright future there. As of today we have enoughf land to accomodate all armenians but economically we are not there yet. As for those of us living in the diaspora i think the most important thing we can do is to go and visit armenia as much as we can so that we form our own personal bond with her and our people there. Go to whats left of our homeland, spend your money there and develop a personal relationship with her and our people. You won't regret doing it and you will enjoy yourself in the process.

[Crimson Glow]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

This depends entirely on what generation of diaspora you're talking about, and also a good bit on what nation. Those that are immigrants to a new nation, or are first generation to that nation will probably have a slightly closer relationship to the "fatherland" (especially ones living in nations that are a bit closer to us culturally) than say someone who is 2nd or 3rd generation. With each generation, the offspring give less and less of a damn about their ancestry/ethnicity/heritage, and become fully assimilated members of whatever nation they live in (this is the whole premise of being an "American"). For example, do you think a 2nd generation (or even 1st gen for that matter) Armenian-American is going to give up the luxury life they've been afforded in the US to go back to a much simpler nation that, in some areas, doesn't even have running water or electricity? Probably not going to happen. Nor would those people care what is going on in Armenia at any particular given moment. They are only "Armenian" when asked about their background, because it's "cool" to be of another culture (and in some cases, even then they lie, or don't want to mention it). But in reality, they're about as Armenian as the Statue of Liberty.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

This depends entirely on what generation of diaspora you're talking about, and also a good bit on what nation. Those that are immigrants to a new nation, or are first generation to that nation will probably have a slightly closer relationship to the "fatherland" (especially ones living in nations that are a bit closer to us culturally) than say someone who is 2nd or 3rd generation. With each generation, the offspring give less and less of a damn about their ancestry/ethnicity/heritage, and become fully assimilated members of whatever nation they live in (this is the whole premise of being an "American"). For example, do you think a 2nd generation (or even 1st gen for that matter) Armenian-American is going to give up the luxury life they've been afforded in the US to go back to a much simpler nation that, in some areas, doesn't even have running water or electricity? Probably not going to happen. Nor would those people care what is going on in Armenia at any particular given moment. They are only "Armenian" when asked about their background, because it's "cool" to be of another culture (and in some cases, even then they lie, or don't want to mention it). But in reality, they're about as Armenian as the Statue of Liberty.

Well the whole idea was to get the standard of living up to a point to where it is comparable to that of where a diasporan lives. My argument is we need to make Armenia stronger including economicaly to allow people to return without sacrificing the standard of living much if at all. I think you may have your perception of Armenia a bit skewed, there is plenty of electricity and runing water even in most villages. As a matter of fact if you have the money your lifestyle in Armenia can be better then pretty much anywhere else. Armenia is on a crossroad between europe, asia and the middleeast so you will find things there you couldn't dream of finding in lets say America. I think much of the diaspora doesnt care about visiting armenia and prefers going to the middle east instead, this is really sad for me to see but i have hope.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

Our ancestors fled to escape war and survive to find life with opportunity. When the first generations settle in their respective countries, they work hard to establish a life for their family. In doing so, they don't have much time to spend with their children so their children just end up absorbing more of the culture/language from their surroundings than their parents/family. Even if Armenia was the best country in the world, you probably couldn't convince many Armenians to make a sacrifice to move there and start a new life because there are those that are so used to the odar culture that they'd have a difficult time un-programming years/generations of assimilation.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

Our ancestors fled to escape war and survive to find life with opportunity. When the first generations settle in their respective countries, they work hard to establish a life for their family. In doing so, they don't have much time to spend with their children so their children just end up absorbing more of the culture/language from their surroundings than their parents/family. Even if Armenia was the best country in the world, you probably couldn't convince many Armenians to make a sacrifice to move there and start a new life because there are those that are so used to the odar culture that they'd have a difficult time un-programming years/generations of assimilation.

Well you may have a good point there but people can and do change. I cant speak for everyone but when i got to Armenia i get such a overwhelming feeling of belongingness that i have a hard time leaving. It is not a big country but it has 100X more history then the biggest country on earth. It is incredible all the relics you find there which you can trace all the way back to the stone age. The nature of the country is spectacular in many places from lake sevan to delejan, lori.... When you are there people do not confuse you for a arab or a mexican or a ..., everyone speaks armenian. There is a vibrant and very active city life especialy the night life which is full of great restaurants and cafes with entertainment where the service will amaze you compared to what you get here in the states. There is something for everyone to do there from city life/shopping/clubing/museums...to hiking, mountain climbing, camping, hunting, swimming, skiing,archeology... Finely of course there is nothing like watching Ararat tower over the valley from yerevan on a clear day. I wish the diasporans could experience Armenia as i have and i am sure it will lure them back for more if they do.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

They are only "Armenian" when asked about their background, because it's "cool" to be of another culture (and in some cases, even then they lie, or don't want to mention it). But in reality, they're about as Armenian as the Statue of Liberty.

Well, not to mention they are also surrounded by Americans that don't know the Statue of Liberty is French

[Hye]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

Well thanks to all the replies and thanks for the welcome let me get to my points.
I think you got me a little wrong let me make it more clear by saying Im asking mostly about th diaspora Armenians wether they are doing enoug to strengthen Armenia and even THEMSELVES are we using our potential fully or lets say in acceptable amount? can we do more in it? Im talking on individual basis and more importantly in masses. We ALWAYS hear Armenian prsident Armenians all around th worl say Armenia is a country without its diaspora and completely different country with it this is absolutely true but how much diffrence is the diaspora making? IS IT ENOUG? you have suggested Armenians every year should go to Armenia and spend money well this is beautiful and Im with you we must ALL go there instead of going to other places ESPECIALLY Turkey but is this enoug?
TO aoid beating around the bush I will go ahead and give my oinon in this post and I want all of you to be 100% honest and give your opinons.
In my opinon we are exploiting VERY VERY VERY little of our potential (In the diaspora) and it is shameful we are doing alot we working hard we have come a long way but still we have done NOTHING compared to what we really can if weget organised more wether we can or we can't is even more important but let us forget about that for a sec. We have huge potential people we must exploit it 10000000% HOW?
In my opinion it is about tim to introdice "Haygagan Azkayin durk" maning "Armenian National Tax" in a way or another and this must be indpendant of the tax that the Armenian church collects I just want to ask can't Armenians all around the world depending on the country they reside pay 20$ A YEAR? this amount may increase depending on th country 1st world counties could pay more.
These collected money in my opinon should not go to Armenia it should be INVESTED in the countires that they are collcted in. to give an example.
In Lebanon there is at least 50000 citizens with Armenina roots and Lebanon is famouse in the way they are raised they all speak Armenian and ar attavhed to their roots so if everyone pay 20$ the first year multiflied by 50000 this will be 1 mill USD this is a little money to send to Armenia to do significant change but if we invest this money in Lebanon by fiurst researching in Lebanese Universities and finding out what is the Lebanese youth intrested in what are they majoring in and how can I use this potential and accordingly opening a company that will employ Lebanese Armenian youth and exprianced professiola for guidence (not volanteers they will get paid coz I don't believe in volateers they work for a month year then dry up) using the taxt money we will make the 1 mill bring even more money and creat jobs for Lebanese Armenians and let them not to megrate and keep the cominity strong and make the comunity tro get stronger by getting richer and be capable of solving its own problems finential socio economic and going to the ultimate POLITICAL goals do not forget every year the money will keep on coming through the taxes and this money will be invested in the comunity by opinong companies to the point that we will be able to creat legar ferms train Armeniasn and suport them to be members in non Armenians parties and support them to a point they have influence on th party to the point where we will have enough money to send hundreds of millions of dollars why not billions a year to Armenia instead of tens.
I gave you the example of Lebanon wich although has its importance remains insignificant country in global politics just imagine how will it be if we implement this in USA France UK Germany Canada Austrailia Argentina TURKEY we will have a supreme international body that coordinates the work in all countries and help countris that ned help because with a strong diaspora we will have stronger Armenia with GREAT POWERFULL diaspora we will have GREATER MORE POWERFULL ARMENIA its time to get orgenized people its time to rise to the chalange with th epolitical and finential backing we won't talk about surrendering territories to Azeries we won't talk about how poor Javakhk Armenians are won't wonder if Obama will say Armenian Genocide we will garantee that he will and willnot even think about the oposite or laugh at us by saying medz yeghern.
I know the execution of such a plan is EXTREMELY hard given the Armenian mentality and organizations and VERYTHING but lets disregard this for now and do a bramstorming abut this idea I want you HONEST opinons and sugestions and thanki you

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

I think you have a good idea there but i am not sure how many people would be willing to participate plus you need a collection and redistribution network alll over the world, then you gota figure out which communities should be taxed.... I think it may be a bit more complicated then it seems. I think some people will resent being taxed and thus hide their identity, the more i think about it the more complicated it seems to get but that doesnt mean it is not doable. I prefer the volentary method i suggested earlier which is basicaly going to armenia, spending your money there and developing a personal relationship with the country and its people while making it stronger through the money you spend there. This way you help armenia become stronger which i think should be our no1 goal and you get to develop a personal bond with the land and the people which simply doesnt exist in most of the diaspora today. Once the country becomes economically stronger and more people develop that personal relationship with her, then people will be more likely to make the big move and settle our homeland. It is difficult for a diasporan armenian who has never been to armenia to imagine what it is like both physicaly and emotionaly to be there. If you have not been there all armenia is to you is what you read about it and hear about it. Just reading and hearing is no substitute for being there and experiencing it in person. The best thing a diasporan can do is to go to Armenia,spend money there and develop the personal bond between he/she and the country.

[Hye]

Re: Armenian Diaspora

Hi Haykakan and thaks for your intrest you have many good points but lets try to discuss
Im not saying that this is very easy it is VERY VERY hard thing to atchieve and there is always the question if we ever can atchieve even if all people pay taxes because of certain,let me call, "haygagan pnavorutyun" meanin "Armenian character" but now Im talking about an ideal case I don't want to focus first of all on how it can't be done but how it can what to do and just brain storm. you are perfectly right about people hiding there identity and avoiding to pay the tax although it is very little 20$ per YEAR is practically NOTHING comone no one can give 1USD and 67 cent per month? its rediculouse but you are perfectly right there are such people and Im afraid they are majority.
on the other hand what I am suggesting here isn't cherity unlike all the things that Armeninas do today like the Hayasdan Hamahaygagan Himnatram the parties the AGBU and everything where they collect charity for Artsakh and Armenia this idea is telling help yourelf to help the other this organisation will FIRST of all invest in the country where th mony is collected will give jobs to the pople who are giving money is creating a cercle of influence in the country creating a politically and finentially strong entity that will protect him first of all will make him her feel strong in his country. for example if you have a legal issue you would go to this organisation and one of its ferms will handle it with less cost you can't find a job you go to them they will take you in or place you in a good position you have a business idea and plan they may help you Im thinking big here Im thikning not just making Armenia strong but making Armenians strong through with Armenia has NO CHOICE but to be strong. I love Armenia I die for her I want Armenia to be strong I want Armenians to atchieve all our lost dreams but look at Armenia now geopraphically I have read people over and over again say lets sell everything to Russia when the time comes even get into the federation Im with those who say such but why avoid that why not find a way not to let that day to come? this can only happen by planing our moves by sitting together and planing not just what we wil do next but also the next 10 steps.
I want to ask why should an Armenian living in US leave US and go to Armenia? yes we are populating Armenia in such way but we are making the Armenian diaspora in US weaker w should work in anothr direction let the US Armenian stay there reproduce and get even stronger and let Armeninas in Armenia first of all not megrate stay in Armenia by securing his future and reproduce.
Im not planing for next year or 5 years to come Im talking about the future we are already late we can't affort to lose from now on our backs to the wall.
many thinkers have said and will say again and again w are strong iddividually but will be stronger in masses power is in unity.
I suggest:
-Every country in the first stage must start with itself forget about everything else and think of making itself strong because if you don't help yourself you can't help others.
-we should pick countries that have significant amount of Armenians that we can work with like USA, Canada, Lebanon, France, Syria, Iran (by the way all these need detailed research these are just idas thats why I want you to thikn how we can make this happen I KNOW ITS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE but again ALMOST)
-coordination at first should be little to let everyone do its own thing
-find a way to collect taxes in Lebanon, Syria the church is a good way alrady they collect tax every year and if you aren't paying it you have to pay when you are getting married or baptizing your children I donno othr countries how we can do it.
-creat a orgenizing group (paid would be better) to start research for investing the money research about the Armenian university students what are they learning. Research about Armenian working class what are they doing.
-start "propaganda" wprk within the Armenian comunity the aim of the organisation and covince it is done for their own good first of all
-put legislation to govern the organisation by team of lawyrs we are talking about big amount of money
-make existing organisation take part in the plan within the rules and protect th organisation from tiny personal or party gains
-let Armenia and its government also involved in the organisation
-in the long run avoid isolating the Armenian comunity from th everyday life the main country that they live and to a certain extend encourage the penetration of Armenians in their organisations life etc.
Again I know these are ALMOST impossible to atchieve but lets try to think about it