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  • #41
    Originally posted by Baron Dants I'm still not sold.

    What will happen is that candidates will try to please the diaspora, and might neglect the needs of Armenia just to get the diasporan vote.

    For instance, one might say "we will build a museum honouring diasporans" or some other waste of money like that. Diasporans will say "hooray" and will vote for it. The construction of the museum will be funded by government money, which had to be cut from other domains like, for example, education or health.

    And people will vote because they have some sort of information, but will usually do so based on their own needs, based on what they see around them. Which is why it is perfectly normal for an Armenian-American to vote.....in the American elections.

    Informed or not, if you're gonna vote, you have to live the consequences. I'm not against diasporans voting....they should just live in Armenia if they want to do it...but then, they are no longer diasporans. So yes, I'm against diasporans voting.
    Are the people around you so ... stupid ? The monuments by the way already exist, no need for new.
    Ok, what if we ban american armenian from the vote ?

    I think, it is compulsory. At least for the ones that feel neglected by armenia's gov and want to intervene a little. Paying is a good mean people to understand "better" their responsibility (yes, it has its shortcomings).

    By the way, we have to wait the next government to see some evolution. there is no expectation concerning diaspora from this one.

    One thing that get on my nerves is the pretexte of being a young democracy. In which book was stated that we have to wait 50years (I'm exagerating) before planning investment ? Serbie, even after a destroyed economy, is structuring itself in order to attract capital. There's all about stagnation, because it serves the needs of some people.

    By the way, this site will help you improve your french.
    http://www.courrierinternational.com/actual/accueil.asp
    "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
    - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

    ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Baron Dants Here are a few kind words from our friendly little brothers and sisters.

      LONG LIVE THE ARMENIAN-AZERI BROTHERHOOD!!!

      *************************************************

      Vox pop shows Azeris against arrival of Armenian military in Baku

      Space TV, Baku
      12 Jan 04

      [Presenter] Armenian military will arrive in Baku tonight. The chairman of the Karabakh Liberation Organization, Akif Nagi, has stated that concrete steps will be taken against the Armenians today. Some other members of the body have even said that the Armenians will be held hostage. What do citizens of Baku think of the visit, we wonder?

      [First unidentified man] I condemn a visit by enemy officers
      to my country. They occupied 20** per cent of our lands, took
      our girls hostage, ruined our territories and destroyed historical
      monuments. Azerbaijani women are still being held hostage in Armenia. I condemn the arrival of their officers in the Azerbaijani capital.

      [GROONG NOTE: For a more honest assessment of the above topic please
      visit http://www.groong.org/ro/ro-19970917.html ]

      [Second unidentified man] They killed our sons and daughters, they decapitated and raped them. This is a shameful act. Therefore, we are resolutely against this.

      [Third unidentified man] They will start to claim that they flew all
      the way here only to be mistreated by us. They will allege that we
      do not want reconciliation, they will spread such rumours because
      they are not decent.

      [Fourth unidentified man] If only I knew the time of their arrival,
      as an Azerbaijani I would have gone there to show what I think of
      them. Pressure or persecution will not frighten me. Not a single
      Armenian should set foot on our land.

      [An unidentified woman] This is the biggest insult for our republic
      and our nation. They are holding us hostages. They should not set foot here. Neither generals, nor workers, nor representatives of the intelligentsia. They are all our enemies.

      [Sixth unidentified man] As a young Azerbaijani, I am against this
      visit. About 20 per cent of the Azerbaijani territories are under
      occupation and many Azerbaijani children and women are being held hostage in Armenia. They are being tortured. It is insulting to sit at the negotiating table with them and discuss any issues. I think that despite Azerbaijan's readiness for peaceful negotiations, international organizations should not subject Azerbaijan to insults. If the peace talks fail, Azerbaijan is determined to go to war. In such a case, the arrival of the Armenian generals in Baku runs against logic.

      [Second unidentified woman] Frankly speaking, my attitude to this
      visit is very negative. Because Armenia is our enemy. We are not its enemy. They have occupied our lands, they took our women hostage. The visit by the Armenian officers and giving them the read carpet treatment is absolutely out of the question. As a mother, a teacher and an Azerbaijani citizen, I am totally against this visit.
      Oh, one more thing - Soumgait ...
      Be nice . . .

      Comment


      • #43
        What happened at Khojaly, massacres were committed on both sides remember....

        excellent point danz about Diaspora not being representative of Armenian population, therefore shouldnt vote.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by felizitation

          One thing that get on my nerves is the pretexte of being a young democracy. In which book was stated that we have to wait 50years (I'm exagerating) before planning investment ? Serbie, even after a destroyed economy, is structuring itself in order to attract capital. There's all about stagnation, because it serves the needs of some people.
          Armenia has actually been found to be the ex-USSR country that has the best conditions to attract foreign investment. It also compares pretty well with other countries on the international level. We just seem to forget that some people might be unwilling to invest in a country that is still technically at war...

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Shahumyan What happened at Khojaly, massacres were committed on both sides remember....

            excellent point danz about Diaspora not being representative of Armenian population, therefore shouldnt vote.
            You have to cope with massacres during conflict periods. No one is innocent, people defend themselves or are simply cruel. That's the complexity/brutishness of human kind.

            Besides, history shows that we have never been in correct relationship with the two bastards' countries. I'm talking about countries, which is a general idea, politic, state of mind and religion, rather than talking about people, in which we may always find exceptions (some turks helped armenians during the genocide, this serve the fake argument that many turks were also killed during the genocide, even if they were killed by turks themselves).

            By the way, around me a lot of people is involved in helping both kharabagh (UMAF, AGBU, Da connexion, obviously - as good armenians they are - diverging from political point of view) and Armenia, providing medical machines, cattle for farmers, rebuilding schools, books etc...
            These people go often in armenia, in order to size and head their project progression, are close to population since they work with them, and are highly conscious of the political situation. It's some kind of easy vulgarism to consider them as old mummies expecting big statues and museums. They are competent to make some decisions, from a political point of view I mean.

            Moreover, the expectations are not the same for the spiurks and the locals. As far as I saw, armenian people don't seem to size the power/weight they have. They are like sheeps, asleep because of 70 years of stupid stalinist socialism. If spiurks to vote, elected politics will certainly be kept a watch on (je ne sais pas si cette tournure est valide, dis moi dants )

            So, I'm more partisant of a global participation, maybe under certain conditions. But it should at least be possible.
            "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
            - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

            ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Baron Dants Armenia has actually been found to be the ex-USSR country that has the best conditions to attract foreign investment. It also compares pretty well with other countries on the international level. We just seem to forget that some people might be unwilling to invest in a country that is still technically at war...
              Lack of investment is not only due to a relative unstable military situation, but also the lack of structure the government propose to an entreprise.
              Mafia plays a role only for small entities

              Structure includes transport abilities, laws, economic means (banks, insurances). If an entity to invest there, it looses the control over it belongings. Thus, only very big structures can cope with this lack of structure, since they have enough external ressources to cope with internal mis organisation.
              "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
              - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

              ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by felizitation Lack of investment is not only due to a relative unstable military situation, but also the lack of structure the government propose to an entreprise.
                Mafia plays a role only for small entities

                Structure includes transport abilities, laws, economic means (banks, insurances). If an entity to invest there, it looses the control over it belongings. Thus, only very big structures can cope with this lack of structure, since they have enough external ressources to cope with internal mis organisation.
                Once again, we seem to be having different sources of information. From what I have read, Armenia has made great progress specifically in the spheres of banking and foreign investments. I don't know what else to say.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Baron Dants Once again, we seem to be having different sources of information. From what I have read, Armenia has made great progress specifically in the spheres of banking and foreign investments. I don't know what else to say.
                  Indeed. But "great" is not necessarly enough for any type of entreprise/investor.
                  You have to keep in mind that our economical and social structure is very old.

                  On the other hand, the whole idea is not to copy these structures, but to propose something attractive. So, why would prefer nike going to asia instead of armenia ?
                  "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
                  - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

                  ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    i dont see how effective "growth" figures are, since original index figures used were so low, i dont see them as a useful indication at all. As for investment, we must remember were entering (entered in some spheres) a global recession, it would be naive to suggest that Armenia would be first to get investment.

                    Having said that, capitalists may pull out from developed nations, and get cheap labour from Armenia and set up sweatshops, and low paid jobs, making Armenia a magnet for xxxx jobs.

                    Getseh Global Capitalism, its times like these i believe every member of the ANM should have had their vizner kdrats, putting political dogma over the welfare of the people

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I don't want Nike to come to Armenia. I will become a kamikaze if they ever do approach Armenia.

                      The principle advantage of Armenia is that it has a qualified and educated population. Labour would be cheaper because the cost of life is cheaper, but I don't think anyone wants our government to make our country as "attractive" to foreign investment as China or Vietnam is.


                      And Shahumyan, armenians voted for independance. And overwhelmingly so. You still seem to be in denial.

                      Comment

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