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Armenian Army

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  • #31
    Originally posted by felizitation What about my questions, misteur Poire ?
    Aww, do you feel left out? I was actually re-reading your post, and you make some interesting points. As I have said earlier on, the whole idea seems to be too much work for a goal that might not have the impact we want it to.

    À part ça, please elaborate on your last point. Sounded interesting and controversial, but I'm not quite sure I get it.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Baron Dants Aww, do you feel left out? I was actually re-reading your post, and you make some interesting points. As I have said earlier on, the whole idea seems to be too much work for a goal that might not have the impact we want it to.

      À part ça, please elaborate on your last point. Sounded interesting and controversial, but I'm not quite sure I get it.
      Feel free to get whatever you want (don't have time right now to reelaborate shtg), I'll correct you if you're "à coté de la plaque".
      "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
      - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

      ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

      Comment


      • #33
        Aha, understood.

        Your point would be that Armenia sees the spurk as a sort of milking cow that, despite its participation, should not be given an active role in the country's direction, right?

        Personally, I don't believe anyone not living in a country should have the right to vote in that country's election.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Baron Dants Aha, understood.

          Your point would be that Armenia sees the spurk as a sort of milking cow that, despite its participation, should not be given an active role in the country's direction, right?

          Personally, I don't believe anyone not living in a country should have the right to vote in that country's election.
          I agree, but what if some people, such as 18 years old boy (real Dolph Langdren) were to perform their military service in armenia ? They should be rewarded for their service with a kind of citizenship.

          On the other hand, I agree with that fact. However, we may see lobbies everywhere influencing political decisions. It is not individual entities of course. Where the influence exists, weight exists. Even if, as spiurk, we have to pay for this influence to exist, the matter is not only the fact that we are living there, it's also the control over the elections. And even for those of armenian nationality, they weighted in 2002 the external votes as 10 external voices for X = 1 internal voice for X.

          Jews are able to vote for elections in Israel. I don't know exactly, but they should have something like double nationality. Armenia simply refuse this idea, it is not in their interests.

          And, indeed, they see spiurks as milk cows. The Gov, not the hayasdantsi ...
          "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
          - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

          ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by felizitation

            Jews are able to vote for elections in Israel. I don't know exactly, but they should have something like double nationality. Armenia simply refuse this idea, it is not in their interests.

            We can't compare Armenia to Israel. What would happen if Armenians in the diaspora were able to vote? The Hnchak and Ramgavar party would be reborn (they have virtually NO support in Armenia) and the ARF would get over 70% of the votes (compared to the 15 or so that they received). I mean that Armenians in the diaspora tend to have NO idea about what's going on politically in Armenia. If you decide to vote for a certain candidate, and the guy turns out to be a complete idiot, why should you not face any consequences for your action?

            I see double citizenship as a way to make diasporans feel better about themselves. Sure, it would be nice to have Armenian citizenship right now, but what the hell have I done to earn it?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Baron Dants We can't compare Armenia to Israel. What would happen if Armenians in the diaspora were able to vote? The Hnchak and Ramgavar party would be reborn (they have virtually NO support in Armenia) and the ARF would get over 70% of the votes (compared to the 15 or so that they received). I mean that Armenians in the diaspora tend to have NO idea about what's going on politically in Armenia. If you decide to vote for a certain candidate, and the guy turns out to be a complete idiot, why should you not face any consequences for your action?

              I see double citizenship as a way to make diasporans feel better about themselves. Sure, it would be nice to have Armenian citizenship right now, but what the hell have I done to earn it?
              Ramgavar is not a political party .
              I agree with you about the consequences of all these. You seems to confortable with the matter, but it was only one of the questions I raised

              By the way, hayasdansi that vote from outside, and who knows what's happening, were also weaken.
              But, I may say that there is some kind of stagnation concerning this topic in the outside of armenia. I mean, the ones we hear the most are always the dachnak, the other (in fact, i don't even know who are the others except ramgavaroutioun, which is not political) are silent (or overcovered by the noise of dachnaks).

              As citizen, we are not completely dumb. Offered the right to vote (which is an important duty) people won't vote just to please momy. It can't be completely out of information, and it is mainly the first step people to get really informed because they are offered the oportunity to make their opinion.
              Besides, this "evolution" would certainly trigger off the creation of a whole information structure, in order to be more transparent and objective and to fulfill the need of the electors. Since it would be big enough and in foreign-well-democratic (hahaha) countries, it can't be completely biased.

              Of course, we will never know what would think an hayasdansi, and what is the best for the people there. Spiurks certainly will vote for other spiurks. They would at least not be completely pulled apart. It may also create a more confident climat, and ease people to go live there.

              Then, re-populating armenia is another problem ...
              "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
              - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

              ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Baron Dants I see double citizenship as a way to make diasporans feel better about themselves. Sure, it would be nice to have Armenian citizenship right now, but what the hell have I done to earn it?
                Forgot this point:
                we send money (in a certain extent)
                we grew up by nurturing (does this word exist??) this this ideal (ok it is pious)
                it is the first step to make populations more coherent
                "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
                - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

                ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by felizitation Forgot this point:
                  we send money (in a certain extent)
                  we grew up by nurturing (does this word exist??) this this ideal (ok it is pious)
                  it is the first step to make populations more coherent
                  And we want to do some business there, to bring work to armenia and to buy a new car
                  "C'était un des principes fondamentaux de la doctrine Gradgrind que toute chose devait être payée. Personne ne devait jamais, en aucun cas, rien donner à qui que ce fût sans compensation. La gratitude devait être abolie et les bienfaits qui en découlent n'avaient aucune raison d'être. Chaque pouce de l'existence des humains, depuis la naissance jusqu'à la mort, devait être un marché réglé comptant. Et s'il était impossible de gagner le ciel de cette façon, cela signifiait que le ciel n'était pas un lieu régi par l'économie politique et que l'on n'avait rien à y faire."
                  - D.i.c.k.e.n.s., "Temps Difficiles", 1854.

                  ... stupid words filter. xxxxens is an author!!!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I'm still not sold.

                    What will happen is that candidates will try to please the diaspora, and might neglect the needs of Armenia just to get the diasporan vote.

                    For instance, one might say "we will build a museum honouring diasporans" or some other waste of money like that. Diasporans will say "hooray" and will vote for it. The construction of the museum will be funded by government money, which had to be cut from other domains like, for example, education or health.

                    And people will vote because they have some sort of information, but will usually do so based on their own needs, based on what they see around them. Which is why it is perfectly normal for an Armenian-American to vote.....in the American elections.

                    Informed or not, if you're gonna vote, you have to live the consequences. I'm not against diasporans voting....they should just live in Armenia if they want to do it...but then, they are no longer diasporans. So yes, I'm against diasporans voting.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by felizitation And we want to do some business there, to bring work to armenia and to buy a new car
                      hahahahahahahahahaha. Classic!


                      En tout cas...3 heures AM ici, et je m'en vais au lit.

                      Toujours un plaisir!
                      Last edited by xBaron Dants; 01-12-2004, 11:52 PM.

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