Armenian Army

[Artsakhtsi]

Originally posted by Baron Dants Here are a few kind words from our friendly little brothers and sisters.

LONG LIVE THE ARMENIAN-AZERI BROTHERHOOD!!!

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Vox pop shows Azeris against arrival of Armenian military in Baku

Space TV, Baku
12 Jan 04

[Presenter] Armenian military will arrive in Baku tonight. The chairman of the Karabakh Liberation Organization, Akif Nagi, has stated that concrete steps will be taken against the Armenians today. Some other members of the body have even said that the Armenians will be held hostage. What do citizens of Baku think of the visit, we wonder?

[First unidentified man] I condemn a visit by enemy officers
to my country. They occupied 20** per cent of our lands, took
our girls hostage, ruined our territories and destroyed historical
monuments. Azerbaijani women are still being held hostage in Armenia. I condemn the arrival of their officers in the Azerbaijani capital.

[GROONG NOTE: For a more honest assessment of the above topic please
visit http://www.groong.org/ro/ro-19970917.html ]

[Second unidentified man] They killed our sons and daughters, they decapitated and raped them. This is a shameful act. Therefore, we are resolutely against this.

[Third unidentified man] They will start to claim that they flew all
the way here only to be mistreated by us. They will allege that we
do not want reconciliation, they will spread such rumours because
they are not decent.

[Fourth unidentified man] If only I knew the time of their arrival,
as an Azerbaijani I would have gone there to show what I think of
them. Pressure or persecution will not frighten me. Not a single
Armenian should set foot on our land.

[An unidentified woman] This is the biggest insult for our republic
and our nation. They are holding us hostages. They should not set foot here. Neither generals, nor workers, nor representatives of the intelligentsia. They are all our enemies.

[Sixth unidentified man] As a young Azerbaijani, I am against this
visit. About 20 per cent of the Azerbaijani territories are under
occupation and many Azerbaijani children and women are being held hostage in Armenia. They are being tortured. It is insulting to sit at the negotiating table with them and discuss any issues. I think that despite Azerbaijan's readiness for peaceful negotiations, international organizations should not subject Azerbaijan to insults. If the peace talks fail, Azerbaijan is determined to go to war. In such a case, the arrival of the Armenian generals in Baku runs against logic.

[Second unidentified woman] Frankly speaking, my attitude to this
visit is very negative. Because Armenia is our enemy. We are not its enemy. They have occupied our lands, they took our women hostage. The visit by the Armenian officers and giving them the read carpet treatment is absolutely out of the question. As a mother, a teacher and an Azerbaijani citizen, I am totally against this visit.

Oh, one more thing - Soumgait ...

[felizitation]

Originally posted by Baron Dants I'm still not sold.

What will happen is that candidates will try to please the diaspora, and might neglect the needs of Armenia just to get the diasporan vote.

For instance, one might say "we will build a museum honouring diasporans" or some other waste of money like that. Diasporans will say "hooray" and will vote for it. The construction of the museum will be funded by government money, which had to be cut from other domains like, for example, education or health.

And people will vote because they have some sort of information, but will usually do so based on their own needs, based on what they see around them. Which is why it is perfectly normal for an Armenian-American to vote.....in the American elections.

Informed or not, if you're gonna vote, you have to live the consequences. I'm not against diasporans voting....they should just live in Armenia if they want to do it...but then, they are no longer diasporans. So yes, I'm against diasporans voting.

Are the people around you so ... stupid ? The monuments by the way already exist, no need for new.
Ok, what if we ban american armenian from the vote ?

I think, it is compulsory. At least for the ones that feel neglected by armenia's gov and want to intervene a little. Paying is a good mean people to understand "better" their responsibility (yes, it has its shortcomings).

By the way, we have to wait the next government to see some evolution. there is no expectation concerning diaspora from this one.

One thing that get on my nerves is the pretexte of being a young democracy. In which book was stated that we have to wait 50years (I'm exagerating) before planning investment ? Serbie, even after a destroyed economy, is structuring itself in order to attract capital. There's all about stagnation, because it serves the needs of some people.

By the way, this site will help you improve your french.
http://www.courrierinternational.com/actual/accueil.asp

[xBaron Dants]

Originally posted by felizitation And we want to do some business there, to bring work to armenia and to buy a new car

hahahahahahahahahaha. Classic!


En tout cas...3 heures AM ici, et je m'en vais au lit.

Toujours un plaisir!

[xBaron Dants]

I'm still not sold.

What will happen is that candidates will try to please the diaspora, and might neglect the needs of Armenia just to get the diasporan vote.

For instance, one might say "we will build a museum honouring diasporans" or some other waste of money like that. Diasporans will say "hooray" and will vote for it. The construction of the museum will be funded by government money, which had to be cut from other domains like, for example, education or health.

And people will vote because they have some sort of information, but will usually do so based on their own needs, based on what they see around them. Which is why it is perfectly normal for an Armenian-American to vote.....in the American elections.

Informed or not, if you're gonna vote, you have to live the consequences. I'm not against diasporans voting....they should just live in Armenia if they want to do it...but then, they are no longer diasporans. So yes, I'm against diasporans voting.

[felizitation]

Originally posted by felizitation Forgot this point:
we send money (in a certain extent)
we grew up by nurturing (does this word exist??) this this ideal (ok it is pious)
it is the first step to make populations more coherent

And we want to do some business there, to bring work to armenia and to buy a new car

[felizitation]

Originally posted by Baron Dants I see double citizenship as a way to make diasporans feel better about themselves. Sure, it would be nice to have Armenian citizenship right now, but what the hell have I done to earn it?

Forgot this point:
we send money (in a certain extent)
we grew up by nurturing (does this word exist??) this this ideal (ok it is pious)
it is the first step to make populations more coherent

[felizitation]

Originally posted by Baron Dants We can't compare Armenia to Israel. What would happen if Armenians in the diaspora were able to vote? The Hnchak and Ramgavar party would be reborn (they have virtually NO support in Armenia) and the ARF would get over 70% of the votes (compared to the 15 or so that they received). I mean that Armenians in the diaspora tend to have NO idea about what's going on politically in Armenia. If you decide to vote for a certain candidate, and the guy turns out to be a complete idiot, why should you not face any consequences for your action?

I see double citizenship as a way to make diasporans feel better about themselves. Sure, it would be nice to have Armenian citizenship right now, but what the hell have I done to earn it?

Ramgavar is not a political party .
I agree with you about the consequences of all these. You seems to confortable with the matter, but it was only one of the questions I raised

By the way, hayasdansi that vote from outside, and who knows what's happening, were also weaken.
But, I may say that there is some kind of stagnation concerning this topic in the outside of armenia. I mean, the ones we hear the most are always the dachnak, the other (in fact, i don't even know who are the others except ramgavaroutioun, which is not political) are silent (or overcovered by the noise of dachnaks).

As citizen, we are not completely dumb. Offered the right to vote (which is an important duty) people won't vote just to please momy. It can't be completely out of information, and it is mainly the first step people to get really informed because they are offered the oportunity to make their opinion.
Besides, this "evolution" would certainly trigger off the creation of a whole information structure, in order to be more transparent and objective and to fulfill the need of the electors. Since it would be big enough and in foreign-well-democratic (hahaha) countries, it can't be completely biased.

Of course, we will never know what would think an hayasdansi, and what is the best for the people there. Spiurks certainly will vote for other spiurks. They would at least not be completely pulled apart. It may also create a more confident climat, and ease people to go live there.

Then, re-populating armenia is another problem ...

[xBaron Dants]

Originally posted by felizitation

Jews are able to vote for elections in Israel. I don't know exactly, but they should have something like double nationality. Armenia simply refuse this idea, it is not in their interests.

We can't compare Armenia to Israel. What would happen if Armenians in the diaspora were able to vote? The Hnchak and Ramgavar party would be reborn (they have virtually NO support in Armenia) and the ARF would get over 70% of the votes (compared to the 15 or so that they received). I mean that Armenians in the diaspora tend to have NO idea about what's going on politically in Armenia. If you decide to vote for a certain candidate, and the guy turns out to be a complete idiot, why should you not face any consequences for your action?

I see double citizenship as a way to make diasporans feel better about themselves. Sure, it would be nice to have Armenian citizenship right now, but what the hell have I done to earn it?

[felizitation]

Originally posted by Baron Dants Aha, understood.

Your point would be that Armenia sees the spurk as a sort of milking cow that, despite its participation, should not be given an active role in the country's direction, right?

Personally, I don't believe anyone not living in a country should have the right to vote in that country's election.

I agree, but what if some people, such as 18 years old boy (real Dolph Langdren) were to perform their military service in armenia ? They should be rewarded for their service with a kind of citizenship.

On the other hand, I agree with that fact. However, we may see lobbies everywhere influencing political decisions. It is not individual entities of course. Where the influence exists, weight exists. Even if, as spiurk, we have to pay for this influence to exist, the matter is not only the fact that we are living there, it's also the control over the elections. And even for those of armenian nationality, they weighted in 2002 the external votes as 10 external voices for X = 1 internal voice for X.

Jews are able to vote for elections in Israel. I don't know exactly, but they should have something like double nationality. Armenia simply refuse this idea, it is not in their interests.

And, indeed, they see spiurks as milk cows. The Gov, not the hayasdantsi ...

[xBaron Dants]

Aha, understood.

Your point would be that Armenia sees the spurk as a sort of milking cow that, despite its participation, should not be given an active role in the country's direction, right?

Personally, I don't believe anyone not living in a country should have the right to vote in that country's election.