Is this the end of the Diaspora?

[Lucin]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Schools, churches, communities. Crunch the numbers, there are more in the Diaspora than there are in Armenia. Those things don't develop overnight... if they did, the Armenians in Armenia would all be living a higher standard of living by now. I didn't say getting assimilated, I said it would be "like getting assimilated".

Why would it be 'like getting assimilated'? It seems to be doing the opposite.

You know very well that it takes a lot of work to pick up and start a new life elsewhere... especially when the majority have already spent money and time on education for their kids and have a future where ever they have settled.

You may have a future whereever you live but not necessarily as Armenians. And not every single Diasporan is asked to move to Armenia, for many reasons I'm not going through it is impossible and not even needed.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Why would it be 'like getting assimilated'? It seems to be doing the opposite.

Assimilation wasn't "forced" onto the Diaspora. At some point they decided that living like the odars would be more beneficial to them. It was more of a chosen assimilation. Granted, many who didn't live near Armenian communities didn't have a choice but there were many who did but still chose to reject their own ethnicity.

You may have a future whereever you live but not necessarily as Armenians. And not every single Diasporan is asked to move to Armenia, for many reasons I'm not going through it is impossible and not even needed.

I'd argue that some in the Diaspora are not only Armenian but perhaps more Armenian due the acknowledgement of their ethnic difference within their respective communities. In fact, from what I've noticed (feel free to disagree) is that the Armenians that seem to have a hard time keeping their noses clean so to speak are the Hayastanci's that migrate from Armenia. That of course is a result of them trying to persue get rich quick schemes.

[Kasa]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

The extend of delusion and if I wanted to be nice, misguided thinking of KanadHye is mind-boggling, mind-blowing; it's out of this world. Wow! It's comical, that's what it is.

Armenian communities, and I mean here communities, people at large and not individuals, do not have a chance to remain Armenian in the Diaspora for long; sooner or later they all assimilate and vanish. Or, at best, they preserve a superficial connection to their origins, and by that I mean once a year get-togethers to eat kabob and dance gyond. The rest of the year, 364 days, they spend living in and being concerned with the affairs and economy and politics and social issues of the society at large, wherever that happens to be, Canada, the US, France, Argentina, Lebanon, ...For an example of this see the earliest immigrants, who are now as Canadian as the maple leaf, the only difference is they may know what a chekoofta is.

To truly help the Armenian nation to thrive and survive and prosper, one has to live in Armenia. And living there, one doesn't have to do anything special or out of the ordinary that one already does in foreign countries. All one has to do is go to work, pay taxes, raise a family, go on trips, etc. But the mere fact that one is living and doing all those things in one's country helps to develop and strengthen that country.

It is a fact that Hayastantsi's don't have to keep reminding people that they are Armenian because there is no question that they are. There is no split nationality here. No Canadian-Armenian, American-Armenian, Lebanese-Armenians, etc. Simply Armenians. So now they can concentrate to be good human beings. They can do what they need to do to grow and prosper and better themselves as human beings.

We in the Diaspora, on the other hand, have to always be in a state of split, alienation and separation from the people immediately in our surrounding, if we want to keep our Armenian identity and Armenian self alive. If being and keeping our Armenian identity is not important then one might as well adopt all the ways and values of one’s residing country and get on with one’s life. This second way of being, by the way, adopting to the ways and values of the residing country and forgetting about Armenia and Armenians, is as legitimate as the first way of living, which is insisting on remaining and keeping one’s Armenian identity which can only be achieved, in the long run, by living in Armenia.

That’s why people assimilate, because, first of all, it is hard to live in a state of separation and alienation from your fellow citizens, and secondly, the society at large offers much more opportunities for growth, self-understanding and happiness than being in state of split between two different national and personal identities.

[Armanen]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

The extend of delusion and if I wanted to be nice, misguided thinking of KanadHye is mind-boggling, mind-blowing; it's out of this world. Wow! It's comical, that's what it is.

Armenian communities, and I mean here communities, people at large and not individuals, do not have a chance to remain Armenian in the Diaspora for long; sooner or later they all assimilate and vanish. Or, at best, they preserve a superficial connection to their origins, and by that I mean once a year get-togethers to eat kabob and dance gyond. The rest of the year, 364 days, they spend living in and being concerned with the affairs and economy and politics and social issues of the society at large, wherever that happens to be, Canada, the US, France, Argentina, Lebanon, ...For an example of this see the earliest immigrants, who are now as Canadian as the maple leaf, the only difference is they may know what a chekoofta is.

To truly help the Armenian nation to thrive and survive and prosper, one has to live in Armenia. And living there, one doesn't have to do anything special or out of the ordinary that one already does in foreign countries. All one has to do is go to work, pay taxes, raise a family, go on trips, etc. But the mere fact that one is living and doing all those things in one's country helps to develop and strengthen that country.

It is a fact that Hayastantsi's don't have to keep reminding people that they are Armenian because there is no question that they are. There is no split nationality here. No Canadian-Armenian, American-Armenian, Lebanese-Armenians, etc. Simply Armenians. So now they can concentrate to be good human beings. They can do what they need to do to grow and prosper and better themselves as human beings.

We in the Diaspora, on the other hand, have to always be in a state of split, alienation and separation from the people immediately in our surrounding, if we want to keep our Armenian identity and Armenian self alive. If being and keeping our Armenian identity is not important then one might as well adopt all the ways and values of one’s residing country and get on with one’s life. This second way of being, by the way, adopting to the ways and values of the residing country and forgetting about Armenia and Armenians, is as legitimate as the first way of living, which is insisting on remaining and keeping one’s Armenian identity which can only be achieved, in the long run, by living in Armenia.

That’s why people assimilate, because, first of all, it is hard to live in a state of separation and alienation from your fellow citizens, and secondly, the society at large offers much more opportunities for growth, self-understanding and happiness than being in state of split between two different national and personal identities.

I agree. Armenians living in the West, are very likely to be assimilated and no amount of schools, churches and other Armenian organizations can keep an Armenian and his descendants from assimilation. The only long term option is to move to Armenia. One can always think of an excuse not to move there, but then I suppose that person didn't care about their Armenianess as much as they would have others (maybe themselves too) believe.

[apachi]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

"Long in diaspora, Armenians return home"
by Maria Danilova
8 June, 2008
Courtesy of http://www.cilicia.com/2008_06_01_ar...e-backlog.html

[apachi]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

"Long in diaspora, Armenians return home"
by Maria Danilova
8 June, 2008
Courtesy of http://www.cilicia.com/2008_06_01_ar...e-backlog.html


YEREVAN, Armenia (AP) — What would prompt a young family to abandon a comfortable life and move to a poor country where running water is still a luxury for many, politics are messy and the threat of war looms large?
For Aline Masrlian, 41, her husband, Gevork Sarian, and their two children, it was their motherland calling.
"It is something special when you live in your own land," said Masrlian, who moved here after her family had lived for generations in Syria.

Lured by the economic opportunities in a fast changing country and the lure of home, some people from Armenia's vast diaspora are moving to the land that their ancestors had long kept alive as little more than an idea. Longtime residents, meanwhile, are no longer fleeing the country in large numbers.

While 3.2 million people live in this landlocked Caucasus mountain nation — the smallest of the ex-Soviet republics — an estimated 5.7 million Armenians reside abroad. The largest disappears are in Russia (2 million), the United States (1.4 million), Georgia (460,000) and France (450,000), according to government data.

Most of the diaspora, like Masrlian's family, are descendants of those who fled the killings of up to 1.5 million Armenians in Ottoman Turkey during World War I — a tragedy Armenia wants to be recognized as genocide but modern Turkey insists was an inherent part of the war's violence.

Much later, others ran away from the economic collapse that Armenia suffered following the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union, when electricity was available only several hours a day, people had to chop down trees for heat, and bread and butter were strictly rationed.

The devastating conflict with neighboring Azerbaijan over the disputed territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, in which over 30,000 people have died, compounded the exodus. An estimated 500,000 people left the country in 1992-94, many heading to Russia.

However, over the past four years Armenia has registered an overall population inflow of 33,200, the first positive trend since gaining independence in 1991 with the Soviet collapse, said Vahan Bakhshetian, a migration expert with the Territorial Management Ministry. While it's difficult to tell how many Armenians are returning permanently, Bakhshetian said the trend offers hope.

"We are now seeing many of those who had left return," said Foreign Ministry spokesman Vladimir Karapetian.
Among the returnees are many from the Russian diaspora. Some are lured back by economic improvements here, while others are escaping growing xenophobia in Russia.

Garik Hayrapetyan of the United Nations Population Fund said Armenians also are no longer leaving in large numbers, but he cautioned that the emerging repatriation will not be sustained without economic and political progress.

For many, the country's biggest asset is its rich cultural heritage. Two millennia ago, Armenia was a vast kingdom stretching between the Black and Caspian seas. Eventually it was divided and absorbed by bigger states, including the Ottoman empire and czarist Russia, and later the Soviet Union.

Armenians like to brag that Noah's Ark came to rest in their country, on the biblical Mount Ararat — though the snowcapped mountain is now part of Turkey, overlooking Yerevan. The country is said to be the first state to adopt Christianity as its religion.

Still, in many ways Armenia remains an unlikely place to attract returnees. Despite economic progress in recent years, over a quarter of the population lives in poverty and the average monthly wage is a meager $275.

Outside aid is crucial. Diaspora Armenians send millions of dollars for investment and aid projects, and much of the population survives on individual money transfers from relatives abroad. The International Monetary Fund estimates that remittances make up 10 percent of the country's economy.

Those sending money are moved by the same love of country that draws Armenians back. James Tufenkian, an Armenian-American, has invested some $30 million in reviving the traditional carpet industry — largely destroyed in the Soviet era — building hotels and running charity efforts. Today, he provides jobs to over 1,000 people here.

Tufenkian, 47, said he decided to help after his first visit at the height of Armenia's economic decline in the early 1990s.
"I felt like I had a chance to do something to improve people's lives, that it was my homeland calling," Tufenkian said in a telephone interview from New York.

Today, Yerevan is slowly transforming itself from a run-down city into a vibrant, modern capital. The downtown boasts Western boutiques, expensive restaurants and young people in trendy outfits.

Yet the rest of the city, perched on steep hills, is a bleak mix of Soviet-era concrete apartment blocks and dilapidated two- and three-story houses with laundry hanging on balconies. The air is heavily polluted, mostly from the exhaust of the battered Soviet-era cars that clog the city. Some districts in Yerevan continue to have shortages of running water, which were common in the 1990s.

While Armenia is considered one of the freer countries among post-Soviet republics, its fragile hold on democracy became apparent earlier this year. Eight people were killed in clashes between government forces and opposition activists protesting election results. The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict also keeps tensions high.

But ask Gevork Sarian about life in Armenia, and the emigre who returned from Syria with his wife and children talks more about finding a homeland than about the wider political climate.

The bearded, smiling Sarian attended university in Yerevan in the early 1980s and said he always wanted to return. The family moved back in 1998, and he started several successful businesses, including a lingerie store run by his wife.

Now 46, Sarian said he had felt separated from his Syrian neighbors. "Even if they look at you in a good way, you are still a stranger — this is the feeling of Armenian diaspora everywhere," he said.

His 15-year-old son Ardag added that in Armenia "you feel that it is your country."

Repatriation wasn't as easy for Aline Masrlian, the wife in the family. She recalled a middle-class life in the northern Syrian city of Aleppo, with running water available 24 hours a day and the markets full of fruits and vegetables. In Yerevan, when the family first arrived, water was on just two hours a day, sometimes the only bread she could find was stale, and she missed the job she had loved, as a construction engineer.

But 10 years later, sitting in a new, spacious apartment decorated with family photos, Aline said she has no regrets. "I decided that this is my country."

More recent returnee Zorair Atabekian, 36, hopes for a similar future. He came back in 2005 after five years in Canada, homesick and hoping to go into business. Though he still earns far less selling xxxelry in Yerevan than he did running an apartment design firm in Montreal, he said he knew his decision would eventually prove right.

"Today this country offers a lot of possibilities," he said. "That is why many diaspora are returning here to start up businesses."
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[AlphaPapa]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

I think Diasporan Armenians (such as myself) should move to Kelbajar and establish "Nor Giligiai Hanrabedutyun". We can give it back to the Azeris as long as its demilitarized and we get back Nakhichevan.

Who's down with me?


Seriously, its great to think of moving to Russian Armenia or Artsakh but there's much more than the language and cultural barrier separating us two. We're about as welcome today as we were post-WW2 (socially, culturally). In other words, talk is cheap...the conditions on the ground is what determines actions.

The fact that Yerevantsis dont even want to return to Armenia (unless they have to for legal reasons) says a lot. We have sons (from Yerevan) moving to Russia for work, where they face neo-nazi assaults, and daughters moving to Turkey and Iran. It's not an appealing place, to say the least.

Many have challenged pessimists and put their money where their mouth is. How many do not have regrets? I sincerely wish I could name one person.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

I think Diasporan Armenians (such as myself) should move to Kelbajar and establish "Nor Giligiai Hanrabedutyun". We can give it back to the Azeris as long as its demilitarized and we get back Nakhichevan.

Who's down with me?


Seriously, its great to think of moving to Russian Armenia or Artsakh but there's much more than the language and cultural barrier separating us two. We're about as welcome today as we were post-WW2 (socially, culturally). In other words, talk is cheap...the conditions on the ground is what determines actions.

The fact that Yerevantsis dont even want to return to Armenia (unless they have to for legal reasons) says a lot. We have sons (from Yerevan) moving to Russia for work, where they face neo-nazi assaults, and daughters moving to Turkey and Iran. It's not an appealing place, to say the least.

Many have challenged pessimists and put their money where their mouth is. How many do not have regrets? I sincerely wish I could name one person.

Ehhhh... unless the Armenian government makes Armenia more inviting to Armenians than foreign governments, it would be like shooting yourself in the foot trying to establish a future there. Besides, this whole idea revolves around the concept that the global economy will become a local economy. Then I can see Armenians moving back to the homeland. After all, we seem to follow the herya's... or they seem to follow us, not sure which does it first, lol.

[apachi]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

I am sorry to see that both of you have same feeling for Armenia. It is very funny to see one of you using Monte Melkonian’s book cover and the other the flag of Armenia for your id pictures and see the impossibility of living in Armenia. What is the point of being HAYRENASER when you are not ready to live in your homeland in any condition and to make it a better place for living as a human and as Armenian. And there are many Yerevantis who had always the opportunity to leave Armenia, but they chose to stay because they feel obligated as HAYRENASER or just simply they like their homeland . In respect to Monte Melkonian who decided to sacrifice his life for his HOMELAND says a lot.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Why did Antranig Pasha not live and die in Yerevan? Dro? Garegin Njdeh?

it isn't with pride that I criticize Armenia but rather, with hopes that those living in Yerevan will know the whole history of what being Armenian is, and not just what the Soviets taught. The soviets were anti-nationalists and cleansed a lot of history books to prevent ethnic strive from leading to any civil war within the union...especially in the Caucasus.

Also, we are from Historic Armenia, which was not under Imperial Russia. We have no roots there, and though we're willing to make it our home, not when it would be in name only.

Monte Melkonian was a realist. he never expected Western Armenia to be liberated and wished only for Turkey to overcome its fascist regime and its genocide denial. he worked with many Turkish, Kurdish and other leftists. I wish the same for myself that he did...the ability to return to my ancestral homeland, to recreate Armenian communities. There are many obstacles in repatriating and he wanted a progressive move to overcome them all. Eventual repopulation of Armenians in Turkish lands was one of them, but that would be impossible without existing Armenian people on those lands.

I highly recommend you read that book to further understand what our mindset is like. Also, keep in mind that many volunteers to Artsakh returned to Los Angeles, Boston, Beirut, and Tehran.

Israel truly has independence, and a general will from the government to populate the land with as many xxxs as possible. The Russian state of Armenia does not have any interest of populating Russian Armenia with Diasporan Armenians (akhpar-jans). We are a threat to them, and the ARF also has a lot of historic animosity towards them.

I am also sorry that I feel as I do. I wish Armenia welcomed me, and gave me an opportunity to start a life there. Rather, it barely cares for the needs of its own existing citizens, and doesn't seem to want to represent our interests at all. Homeland? I can't call the former SSR my homeland. Not yet.