Is this the end of the Diaspora?

[apachi]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

You know, as I gave the idea above, quite unfortunately the soviet regime created the people of today by not letting them move freely, BTW; to read and probe into their history books, to openly become patriotic as they were by no means allowed publicly to declare =except a few= and all of that created for the people to be less patriotic, less knowledgeable in their own history, and no knowledge of how to move politically in today's world, simply because the country was not theirs. They couldn't rule it. That is why both the government and the people are in the state that they are in now. It's unfortunate but I think I am right in most respects.

Do you mean 1965 when people of Armenia took the streets of Armenia. and raise their voices: MER HOGHER@ MER HOGHER@.
Or when they build Genocide memorial in center of Yerervan.
Or do you mean 1990 when people of Armenia took the streets again and raised their voices: KHARABAGH, KHARABAGH.
Or do you mean years of fighting and defending Kharabagh and sacrificing their lives.
Or do you mean March 1, 2008 after the election of presidency nobody tried to overthrouh the government, because the respect to the Statehood of Armenia was more important for the unity of country.
Or our writers from Charentz to Sevak who brought us the very nationalistic literature even with their live s unfortunate ending.
I am not defending the soviet ruled totalitarian system, but I am not also denying what accomplishments have reached Armenia in those years is sense of our national identity, culture and history which has feed us in inside and diaspora.

[apachi]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Haykakan, where do you live? And if you repatriatized to Armenia, what did you sacrifice?

Repatriatism is not about sacrifice its about patriotism, love your homeland, where you could keep your national identity and culture without worrying about it and raise your children without forcing them to speak mother tongue everyday. Live with your co-patriots, share the daily life and practice your national religion even by not visiting your church and etc....

[apachi]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Armenia is already has very close ties with Russia and Iran. There is no need to anybody to stage coup unless is serving Turks or Azeris which is out of question for Armenia. Please try to get your information from better sources.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

A coup is the last thing we need and it wont happen anyways. The fact that your blabing about it guerantees it wont happen. For a coup to take place you need either russia or the west to back the people taking over, Russia calls the shots in Armenia and they dont want that to change, so who is going to stage a successfull coup and why? The army wont want to replace serj especialy not with ltp. The army has become modernised and much improved under serj-kocharian. The only ones who would be interested in a coup are the turcks and azeris.

[Anoush]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

There will be coup soon in Armenia with help of military if Serzh continues this path, I have some inside information. But the new government will be anti-west and will want closer ties with Iran, Russia.

Well well well, what do we have here? Is this true? Armenia doesn't need the west anyways. The west is not pro-Armenia whatsoever, but they are pro-turkey and azerbaijan. Who needs the west?

What Armenia needs is a very patriotic government, one that is for the people and not for themselves alone. Armenia also needs a government that doesn't put up with nonsense and attacks corruption in the land, a government that respects themselves first and then the people, and hopefully they'll be better equipped in the politikal sense as well.

[Mos]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

There will be coup soon in Armenia with help of military if Serzh continues this path, I have some inside information. But the new government will be anti-west and will want closer ties with Iran, Russia.

[Anoush]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Anoush,

Good points you make but how's a government supposed to change unless people demand it? Governments in democratic systems are not an entity separate from people but an extension.

True, unfortunately the soviet system made our people in there to continue the previous regime and the corruption trend. I'm not saying to all of them; but the soviet regime didn't allow the people to exercise patriotism and read about their history. All of these amounted to the state that is today and how the government was elected by the people; at least the previous two governments. This last one as you said below was voted by rigging, bribery and so forth.

Now, I agree that the government of Armenia is not be the most democratic or fairly elected (i.e. - without vote rigging, bribing, etc) but still it is an improvement over absolute dictatorship which the Soviet system was, there, the government was separate from people and people's wishes (although there is something to be said about "people get the government they deserve". If people in Russia and other Soviet republics really didn't like the system I believe they could have changed it, but that's a different discussion).

You know, as I gave the idea above, quite unfortunately the soviet regime created the people of today by not letting them move freely, BTW; to read and probe into their history books, to openly become patriotic as they were by no means allowed publicly to declare =except a few= and all of that created for the people to be less patriotic, less knowledgeable in their own history, and no knowledge of how to move politically in today's world, simply because the country was not theirs. They couldn't rule it. That is why both the government and the people are in the state that they are in now. It's unfortunate but I think I am right in most respects.

So how can we hope or expect the government of Armenia to be more fair and just and all the other requirement you state in your posting except by moving to Armenia, joining and living in the society there, and by participating in the political process there, demand changes from the government.

You're correct, when new people (Diasporans) move into the country they will certainly make a difference. Not right away, but in time and perhaps sooner than anticipated. Especially if they repatriate in greater numbers as some are more knowledgeable in their own history, are usually exempt from corruption and hopefully will come with their hard earned dollars, pounds or whatever. But it requires a greeaaaat deal of sacrifice on Diaspora's behalf to both repatriate under these circumstances and to not leave afterwards. Realistically, the way the people's mindset is in the homeland are give me give me (not that I blame the people, no) and the government is certainly non democratic and corrupted and pretty selfish. Therefore, you need Diasporans en grande masse to move in to RA to make that difference on their behalf and to better educate the people in there their way or be able to mingle with them. Then they'll be able to choose the government of their choice. I am of course speaking idealistically now; but you have to find a way to move not just a few Diasporans at a time but at least a quarter or a third of them at a time. Just like it happened in the 40's and late 40's when Diasporan Armenians moved to Soviet Armenia from the middle east and Europe.

We can't wait for the government to first change then we move, we have to make and bring about the change. Otherwise, it will continue being in the hands of the people it is in right now, and be ruled by the same mentality and ideologies that it is being guided under currently.

I know and you're right; but how can you make at least a third of the Diasporans to move in at the same time. Because that's what is necessary so that Diasporans wouldn't feel turned off and go back again where they came from as it happened in the past.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Haykakan, where do you live? And if you repatriatized to Armenia, what did you sacrifice?

I went over all that already go read earlier posts. Unfortunately many in the diaspora think like you and i have changed many of their minds alrerady. It doesnt take a genious to figure out what i am saying but it does take the firing of a synapse or two.

[Kasa]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Anoush,

Good points you make but how's a government supposed to change unless people demand it? Governments in democratic systems are not an entity separate from people but an extension.

Now, I agree that the government of Armenia is not be the most democratic or fairly elected (i.e. - without vote rigging, bribing, etc) but still it is an improvement over absolute dictatorship which the Soviet system was, there, the government was separate from people and people's wishes (although there is something to be said about "people get the government they deserve". If people in Russia and other Soviet republics really didn't like the system I believe they could have changed it, but that's a different discussion).

So how can we hope or expect the government of Armenia to be more fair and just and all the other requirement you state in your posting except by moving to Armenia, joining and living in the society there, and by participating in the political process there, demand changes from the government.

We can't wait for the government to first change then we move, we have to make and bring about the change. Otherwise, it will continue being in the hands of the people it is in right now, and be ruled by the same mentality and ideologies that it is being guided under currently.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Haykakan, where do you live? And if you repatriatized to Armenia, what did you sacrifice?