Is this the end of the Diaspora?

[Anoush]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Dear Catharsis I find all your posts very valuable in here and I am in agreement with them also. Your patriotism and your sound mind touches me and I am very glad that you are here with us.

[Catharsis]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Why did Antranig Pasha not live and die in Yerevan? Dro? Garegin Njdeh?

it isn't with pride that I criticize Armenia but rather, with hopes that those living in Yerevan will know the whole history of what being Armenian is, and not just what the Soviets taught. The soviets were anti-nationalists and cleansed a lot of history books to prevent ethnic strive from leading to any civil war within the union...especially in the Caucasus.

Also, we are from Historic Armenia, which was not under Imperial Russia. We have no roots there, and though we're willing to make it our home, not when it would be in name only.

Monte Melkonian was a realist. he never expected Western Armenia to be liberated and wished only for Turkey to overcome its fascist regime and its genocide denial. he worked with many Turkish, Kurdish and other leftists. I wish the same for myself that he did...the ability to return to my ancestral homeland, to recreate Armenian communities. There are many obstacles in repatriating and he wanted a progressive move to overcome them all. Eventual repopulation of Armenians in Turkish lands was one of them, but that would be impossible without existing Armenian people on those lands.

I highly recommend you read that book to further understand what our mindset is like. Also, keep in mind that many volunteers to Artsakh returned to Los Angeles, Boston, Beirut, and Tehran.

Israel truly has independence, and a general will from the government to populate the land with as many xxxs as possible. The Russian state of Armenia does not have any interest of populating Russian Armenia with Diasporan Armenians (akhpar-jans). We are a threat to them, and the ARF also has a lot of historic animosity towards them.

I am also sorry that I feel as I do. I wish Armenia welcomed me, and gave me an opportunity to start a life there. Rather, it barely cares for the needs of its own existing citizens, and doesn't seem to want to represent our interests at all. Homeland? I can't call the former SSR my homeland. Not yet.

I understand what you are saying dear Alpha. There is a lot of animus and pain, especially in light of recent developments. But like Anoush said, grass roots is what matters. And again remember your hero (who is without any doubt) Monte Melkonian's approach, who without a moment's doubt KNEW that what is left of historic Armenia (or today's Republic along with liberated Artsakh) IS our Motherland. He embraced the Armenian Republic and the national liberation struggle in Artsakh with all his heart, with all the baggage and mistakes, past and present.

The people in Armenia feel alienated towards the regime and its policies also, so it is not a Diaspora-Motherland divide. This is only and only what our enemies want. BOTH Western and Eastern Armenia are part of One - Free, Independent and United Armenia. This is a historic truth, even if the current policies by the said regime do not reflect this truth.

[Catharsis]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

However the battle by no means is over Davo. Diasporans and in the Motherland we should still stick together and continue to support the Armenian people in Armenia regardless. If we are not united then we are making our enemies the turks and the azeris job better and faster to make us all lose our motherland and with it our identity. After all we are Armenians and Armenians are very resilient nationality and people. We must continue to fight for the continuation of our freedom and the lands that we have today, but see to it that the government in the Motherland act better and stop the totalitarianism and minimize the corruption, plus same as you I am very dismayed with the protocols and the outcome of it as I see it very dangerous for our sovereignty. And we have to come together and see that the protocols do not pass or else. Bottom line, we must continue our fight whether in Diaspora or in the Motherland and we must not give up our fight for the continuation of our sovereignty and our rights for Genocide recognition and reparations.

Our job is to continue our plight, our cause for survival and yes to fight for it for our children and our children's children sake. Whether we like it or not, still it would be good for Diasporans to repatriate, but as I said above the government of RA must also play their role by being more patriotic, less totalitarian, have much less corruption and be fair and just and loving towards their nation. After all, when Diasporans see improvement in the Motherland then I am sure more and more people will repatriate. It is the wish of every patriotic Armenian that this happens and to become a more united nation, to have a stronger Armenia economically, strategically and in every which way. By all means the war is not over for Armenians all around the globe and we all must fight for the sake of our Motherland and for our survival as a nation.

Very well said Anoush.

[Anoush]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Not to mention making it more inviting for Turkey (comparatively to the Diaspora) to establish relations with Armenia. Anyway...

The protocols are contrary to the idea that Diasporans have of Armenia. It is a shame that through the protocols, Armenia is displaying an image so contrary to what the Diaspora believes in, contrary to what kids growing up here should be believing in - attachment to the homland and the seeking of justice. If things continue the way they are today, if the Armenian government is betraying its own nation, what incentive or justification is there for a Diasporan to continue expressing and investing in his Armenianness, not to mention reestablishing in Armenia?

So in sum I'll say this: with the protocols Armenia is stabbing itself in the back...

However the battle by no means is over Davo. Diasporans and in the Motherland we should still stick together and continue to support the Armenian people in Armenia regardless. If we are not united then we are making our enemies the turks and the azeris job better and faster to make us all lose our motherland and with it our identity. After all we are Armenians and Armenians are very resilient nationality and people. We must continue to fight for the continuation of our freedom and the lands that we have today, but see to it that the government in the Motherland act better and stop the totalitarianism and minimize the corruption, plus same as you I am very dismayed with the protocols and the outcome of it as I see it very dangerous for our sovereignty. And we have to come together and see that the protocols do not pass or else. Bottom line, we must continue our fight whether in Diaspora or in the Motherland and we must not give up our fight for the continuation of our sovereignty and our rights for Genocide recognition and reparations.

Our job is to continue our plight, our cause for survival and yes to fight for it for our children and our children's children sake. Whether some like it or not, it would be good for our Republic that Diasporans repatriate; but as I said above the government of RA must also play their role by being more patriotic, less totalitarian, have much less corruption and be fair and just and loving towards their nation. After all, when Diasporans see improvement in the Motherland then I am sure more and more people will repatriate. It is the wish of every patriotic Armenian that this happens and to become a more united nation, to have a stronger Armenia economically, strategically and in every which way. By all means the war is not over for Armenians all around the globe and we must all fight for the sake of our Motherland and for our survival as a nation.

[Davo88]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Ehhhh... unless the Armenian government makes Armenia more inviting to Armenians than foreign governments...

Not to mention making it more inviting for Turkey (comparatively to the Diaspora) to establish relations with Armenia. Anyway...

The protocols are contrary to the idea that Diasporans have of Armenia. It is a shame that through the protocols, Armenia is displaying an image so contrary to what the Diaspora believes in, contrary to what kids growing up here should be believing in - attachment to the homland and the seeking of justice. If things continue the way they are today, if the Armenian government is betraying its own nation, what incentive or justification is there for a Diasporan to continue expressing and investing in his Armenianness, not to mention reestablishing in Armenia?

So in sum I'll say this: with the protocols Armenia is stabbing itself in the back...

[Anoush]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

It is true that the only place that we as Armenians can truly remain Armenians in Armenia, unfortunately though lately what Sargsyan and Nalbandyan did by signing those deadly protocols with turkey's imposed pre-conditions, I believe that Armenia's sovereignty is at stake along with Artsakh's. It is true that only by living in the homeland one can fight for her or his country. However, today's Armenian government is far from being fair with the people (I am going to say democratically) is not being fair and just. I have just read in the Armenian news that the people in our homeland can't even rallye against the protocols. We must have a government that is fair in Armenia, that the people are treated justly, fairly, well and not only the government officials, their families and their friends or because they are paid by the government; but the entire nation must be treated justly and fairly. They must have better opportunities to have good jobs.

Yes, Armenia is the sole and the only treatment against assymilation; but what is our president of Armenia and his administration doing to allure Diasporan Armenians to repatriate? They must be more patriotic themselves, show the Diasporan Armenians with their acts of democracy, their love for their people and their country and not just for their own power or for their pockets. It is proper for all or most of us to repatriate to Armenia as there are a great number of us that are still very patriotic in the Diaspora and love to see Armenia on the map forever; but repatriating is a great step towards this goal, because as my mother said it a year ago and I'll say the same that there is no hope for Armenians to remain Armenians forever here in the Diaspora, thus there is no future for us in here (not as Armenians). My point is that the Armenian president and his cabinet must work towards that goal by showing the Diasporans their true acts of democracy, their devotion towards their country by being fair and open with the people of the entire nation of Armenia; providing them good jobs, seeing that the brilliant young generation of Armenians have the better jobs, that they are being paid very well and not just putting them in institutions that are paid with minimal wages. These are but some of the things that I can come up with at this time.

All I am saying is that yes by repatriating we can make a difference and make Armenia thrive more and remain Armenians forever ourselves; our children and our children's children, but Armenia's government and their cabinet have also a huge role in this matter to lure the Diasporans to repatriate by being themselves much more democratic and patriotic than they are acting with and showing to the Armenian people now in the homeland.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

Why did Antranig Pasha not live and die in Yerevan? Dro? Garegin Njdeh?

it isn't with pride that I criticize Armenia but rather, with hopes that those living in Yerevan will know the whole history of what being Armenian is, and not just what the Soviets taught. The soviets were anti-nationalists and cleansed a lot of history books to prevent ethnic strive from leading to any civil war within the union...especially in the Caucasus.

Also, we are from Historic Armenia, which was not under Imperial Russia. We have no roots there, and though we're willing to make it our home, not when it would be in name only.

Monte Melkonian was a realist. he never expected Western Armenia to be liberated and wished only for Turkey to overcome its fascist regime and its genocide denial. he worked with many Turkish, Kurdish and other leftists. I wish the same for myself that he did...the ability to return to my ancestral homeland, to recreate Armenian communities. There are many obstacles in repatriating and he wanted a progressive move to overcome them all. Eventual repopulation of Armenians in Turkish lands was one of them, but that would be impossible without existing Armenian people on those lands.

I highly recommend you read that book to further understand what our mindset is like. Also, keep in mind that many volunteers to Artsakh returned to Los Angeles, Boston, Beirut, and Tehran.

Israel truly has independence, and a general will from the government to populate the land with as many xxxs as possible. The Russian state of Armenia does not have any interest of populating Russian Armenia with Diasporan Armenians (akhpar-jans). We are a threat to them, and the ARF also has a lot of historic animosity towards them.

I am also sorry that I feel as I do. I wish Armenia welcomed me, and gave me an opportunity to start a life there. Rather, it barely cares for the needs of its own existing citizens, and doesn't seem to want to represent our interests at all. Homeland? I can't call the former SSR my homeland. Not yet.

[apachi]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

I am sorry to see that both of you have same feeling for Armenia. It is very funny to see one of you using Monte Melkonian’s book cover and the other the flag of Armenia for your id pictures and see the impossibility of living in Armenia. What is the point of being HAYRENASER when you are not ready to live in your homeland in any condition and to make it a better place for living as a human and as Armenian. And there are many Yerevantis who had always the opportunity to leave Armenia, but they chose to stay because they feel obligated as HAYRENASER or just simply they like their homeland . In respect to Monte Melkonian who decided to sacrifice his life for his HOMELAND says a lot.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

I think Diasporan Armenians (such as myself) should move to Kelbajar and establish "Nor Giligiai Hanrabedutyun". We can give it back to the Azeris as long as its demilitarized and we get back Nakhichevan.

Who's down with me?


Seriously, its great to think of moving to Russian Armenia or Artsakh but there's much more than the language and cultural barrier separating us two. We're about as welcome today as we were post-WW2 (socially, culturally). In other words, talk is cheap...the conditions on the ground is what determines actions.

The fact that Yerevantsis dont even want to return to Armenia (unless they have to for legal reasons) says a lot. We have sons (from Yerevan) moving to Russia for work, where they face neo-nazi assaults, and daughters moving to Turkey and Iran. It's not an appealing place, to say the least.

Many have challenged pessimists and put their money where their mouth is. How many do not have regrets? I sincerely wish I could name one person.

Ehhhh... unless the Armenian government makes Armenia more inviting to Armenians than foreign governments, it would be like shooting yourself in the foot trying to establish a future there. Besides, this whole idea revolves around the concept that the global economy will become a local economy. Then I can see Armenians moving back to the homeland. After all, we seem to follow the herya's... or they seem to follow us, not sure which does it first, lol.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Is this the end of the Diaspora?

I think Diasporan Armenians (such as myself) should move to Kelbajar and establish "Nor Giligiai Hanrabedutyun". We can give it back to the Azeris as long as its demilitarized and we get back Nakhichevan.

Who's down with me?


Seriously, its great to think of moving to Russian Armenia or Artsakh but there's much more than the language and cultural barrier separating us two. We're about as welcome today as we were post-WW2 (socially, culturally). In other words, talk is cheap...the conditions on the ground is what determines actions.

The fact that Yerevantsis dont even want to return to Armenia (unless they have to for legal reasons) says a lot. We have sons (from Yerevan) moving to Russia for work, where they face neo-nazi assaults, and daughters moving to Turkey and Iran. It's not an appealing place, to say the least.

Many have challenged pessimists and put their money where their mouth is. How many do not have regrets? I sincerely wish I could name one person.