Iranian-Armenian relations

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No Kanada, the problem is much deeper: Israel is actually unique in its kind. It is an independent country created on teritory of some ones colony not by locals but by people who mostly come from outside concidering its their own land. And considering righteously! But the ugliest thing is that this land was populated at the moment by people who also lived there for centuries. Now comes the most interesting for me ( for us) comparation. It is unbelivable what we are witnessing. IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE TRY TO CREATE A STATE IN WESTERN ARMENIA! We would be in position of Israelis and kuds/turks in position of airabs. You understand now?


I hope that day will come someday. So it is very unvice to take sides just for a moment

Not entirely true. The Kurds have been squatting on Armenian lands and Armenians held deeds to those lands and the loss of land is merely a century old (Armenians didn't leave the territory, they were murdered, slaughtered and driven out of their lands). Legally, Armenians are entitled to that land. Politically and militarily, Armenians don't have the power to enforce laws on what is rightfully theirs. I agree in majority of Turkish held towns, cities and villages... it will take force to liberate the lands since those areas are likely economically valuable to Turks.

Anyways.... getting off topic.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No Kanada, the problem is much deeper: Israel is actually unique in its kind. It is an independent country created on teritory of some ones colony not by locals but by people who mostly come from outside concidering its their own land. And considering righteously! But the ugliest thing is that this land was populated at the moment by people who also lived there for centuries. Now comes the most interesting for me ( for us) comparation. It is unbelivable what we are witnessing. IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE TRY TO CREATE A STATE IN WESTERN ARMENIA! We would be in position of Israelis and kuds/turks in position of airabs. You understand now?


I hope that day will come someday. So it is very unvice to take sides just for a moment

That's like saying "let's not try to catch people who rob banks because in some time in the far distant future, when I get my gang together and devise a cunning and foolproof plan (even though at the moment I don't know any would-be bank robbers and have no idea how to rob banks), I hope to successfully rob this one particular bank that swindled me out of all my money"

[Mukuch]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

That's like saying "let's not try to catch people who rob banks because in some time in the far distant future, when I get my gang together and devise a cunning and foolproof plan (even though at the moment I don't know any would-be bank robbers and have no idea how to rob banks), I hope to successfully rob this one particular bank that swindled me out of all my money"

NO, it is like saying: this guys are professionals, let’s look and learn

And any ways bell, it is simple etic, have you seen any bank robber to catch other?

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Iranian Armenians only mixed with other Armenians (past, present, future).

I'll title this response "Then & Now." The middle quote is by an Armenian anthropologist in Persian - I know what it says.

I think in your effort to show a deep historic connection between Armenians and Iranians you made the mistake of overstepping and claiming Armenians are an Iranic people.

What happens when you mix lemon juice with lemon juice for centuries? You get more lemon juice.
What happens when you mix lemon juice with vodka? You get drunk and forget history.

I'll make sure you understand my position in a very detailed blog on the subject that will address family trees on both sides of the iron curtain; I won't attempt it on this thread. I'll make sure to leave a link when I am done. Perhaps the oldest picture of Perso-Armenians. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fergalflannery/1733509090/

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

A few random Armenians mixing with Persians doesn't mean anything, and as I've said Armenians tend to be very insular. What you want to say with that example? I know you are trying to pull Armenians and Armenia into the Persian sphere, but you can do all you want, our culture and nation doesn't belong in it, regardless of how much a Persian nationalist who advocates 'Greater Iran' wants it to. We are on our independent course and we don't fall under anybody's greater territory or nation.

[Armanen]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Israel's Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of xxxish activists can place supportive messages.

In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of xxxish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.

I believe the recent increase in pro-israeli views on this forum may have something to do with the above.

[Armanen]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No Kanada, the problem is much deeper: Israel is actually unique in its kind. It is an independent country created on teritory of some ones colony not by locals but by people who mostly come from outside concidering its their own land. And considering righteously! But the ugliest thing is that this land was populated at the moment by people who also lived there for centuries. Now comes the most interesting for me ( for us) comparation. It is unbelivable what we are witnessing. IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE TRY TO CREATE A STATE IN WESTERN ARMENIA! We would be in position of Israelis and kuds/turks in position of airabs. You understand now?


I hope that day will come someday. So it is very unvice to take sides just for a moment

Comparing the Armenian case to the jooish one is idiotic. Armenians lived in 'eastern turkey', and some still do secretly, up until 96 years ago. The joos had not been in their 'land' for almost 2000 years! And most of today's joos have little blood connection to the ancient hebrews whom they claim descent from. Is this too difficult for you to grasp or are you an zionist/israeli agent sent here to stir up s*it, cause that's all you seem to do here.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I believe the recent increase in pro-israeli views on this forum may have something to do with the above.

We should do something like that for anti-Armenian propaganda.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

If people want to write a lot on this issue ... I made a new thread; let's decide up front if we want to consolidate them.

Iranian Armenians only mixed with other Armenians (past, present, future).

I'll title this response "Then & Now." The middle quote is by an Armenian anthropologist in Persian - I know what it says.

I think in your effort to show a deep historic connection between Armenians and Iranians you made the mistake of overstepping and claiming Armenians are an Iranic people.

What happens when you mix lemon juice with lemon juice for centuries? You get more lemon juice.
What happens when you mix lemon juice with vodka? You get drunk and forget history.

I'll make sure you understand my position in a very detailed blog on the subject that will address family trees on both sides of the iron curtain; I won't fully attempt it on this thread, as several individuals don't like to use the quote button and run interference. I'll make sure to leave a link when I am done.

Perhaps the oldest picture of Perso-Armenians. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fergalflannery/1733509090/

A few random Armenians mixing with Persians doesn't mean anything, and as I've said Armenians tend to be very insular.

By your own admission you've never been to Iran: How would you know what was "random" in Iran or not; what % of the population in your mind has to intermarry before it's no longer random; and what studies are you relying on?

More important, while I respect Eddo, the truth matters.
V
V

Iranian Armenians only mixed with other Armenians (past, present, future).

Armenians tend to be very insular.

Yes, Iranian-Armenians (the ones that existed for centuries) tended to intermarry with other Iranians (including from a time predating Christianity and Islam and up to the present date); they were "insular" in the sense that they did not intermarry with Russians or other people from the Soviet Republics. In that sense Iranian-Armenians were "insular" and un-Russified for centuries.

Iranian-Armenian Women:


On the other hand, at the start of the 19th Century, Armenia-SSR started becoming a mixed both genetically and culturally (assimilated) - which moved the tiny population in Yerevan further and further away the original Armenian culture and gene pool.

Quotes like yours below are contrary to what people have seen with the own eyes as women are trafficked into parts of Russia and Dubai from Yerevan.

Armenia is the place where this danger [assimilation] doesn't exist [!] and where Armenian society can exist unrestricted.

G-Rated Photo of some of the "Insular" propensities Armenians Fostered in Yerevan and Armenia-SSR:



This above-type of assimilation and behavior is encouraged in Yerevan as thousands of Armenian women are trafficked to other countries to this day - some of which is encouraged by corrupt police officers with ties to the Russian mob. I promise you that Iran discourages Iranian-Armenians from assimilating in this manner; while prostitution is a problem everywhere, Iran hangs people that traffick in women and girls, and particularly shields Iranian-Armenian women from it in ways that Yerevan doesn't.

When my blog is posted, I will also take you through the number of pogroms and rapes against the tiny Armenian population in Armenia-SSR and the effects, both genetically and culturally, and give Armenians a factually accurate portrayal of assimilation in Armenia-SSR. Iranian-Armenian women are discouraged from activities prevalent in Yerevan.

WARNING NOT FOR THE WEAK-HEARTED - (Sex Trafficking of Armenian Women and Girls from Yerevan) :

http://www.xvideos.com/video614352/a...th_russian_guy

"There have been women from Armenia in the United Arab Emirates ever since the early 1990's, when flights started between Yerevan and Dubai. ... "For the past two years, dealers in the sex trade have been transporting women under 31 to Dubai through Russia , mainly through Moscow and Krasnodar . There, they are given false passports, which state their age as over 31." (See U.N. Sub-Com. Report on Children’s Trafficking in Armenia.)

The "Insular" Qualities of Those Who Are "Against" Assimilation.

Mos, you show 2 faces: perhaps you forgot the emails you sent to me asking for assistance in finding a Persian girl you can marry?

Parskahye girl? You should give me advice for meeting a Persian girl As a Armenian, I should have no problem meeting Parskahye's.

But in public you write:

Armenians tend to be very insular.

Do you remember the qualities you were looking for in a Persian bride Moses? Let me refresh your memory.


And I agree with you that you are "not very religious" though you pretend to be in your public posts to try to distract people from the issues.

...being family oriented, having steady job, and being honest is all very important. I am not very religious,... for wife I would chose Iranian ....

The Armenian Church is the most important part of the Armenian identity.

So, if "the Armenian Church is the most important part of Armenian identity," according to you, and if you are "not very religious," according to you, you're not very Armenian according to your own standards.

Buyer Beware:

Moses, while trafficking women and girls for porn and prostitution is a problem in every country, let me remind you how a Persian will deal with anyone that does that to OUR Persian-Armenian women.

* "Iranian web developer faces death over porn site charges." http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_611188.html

* "On Monday, March 13th, the Iranian regime executed Ms. Adiva Mirza-Soleiman was of the xxxish faith who along with her Armenian husband, Varouzhan Petrossian" http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_611188.html

I would also ask Armenians to pay particular attention to people like Mos that attempt to pretend to be against assimilation while privately pushing the opposite agenda; and to beware of those who publicly pretend to be religious while pushing another agenda; and who spend their time online attempting to discredit the shared family-ties of people.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

First off, let me remind you, who PM-d me first:

Why don't you ask me for advice for meeting a nice ParsKaHye girl?

Mos, when is a good time period to stop quoting you?

Visit me on youtube to meet other Armenians also:

www.youtube.com/IranHistory

Second, while I do like Persian women and the culture, marrying them is unrealistic and I wouldn't do that. The reason I have asked that, is that I've been curious on how Muslim women go about marrying non-Muslim men, not from a personal romantic curiosity but from a cultural one, as I was curious in that aspect of the culture.

Third, for argument's sake, even if I married a Perisan or non-Armenian women, me being the father, I would force Armenian identity on the children, in essence assimilation would never be a problem if that is what you're asking, since I am well aware of those dangers and would do anything to prevent it, and best way to do so is to marry within your group.

Fourth, You don't understand the religious culture of Armenians very well. Yes, Armenian Church is crucial to Armenian identity, but that doesn't equal being religious in terms of praying several times a day. What I mean by holding that Church identity, is being aware and respectful of the ceremonies and holidays, attending Church during important holidays, and identifying your self as part of Armenian church. Again, there are many Armenians, especially in the Republic, that aren't that religious but still are respectful of the church and recognise its importance to Armenian history and identity.

Fifth, yes Armenians are an insular group, this is a cultural fact about us. That being said, throughout history, we have intermarried with our neighbours, that's only natural. We have for example intermarried with Georgians a lot. Iranian-Armenian intermarriage decreased heavily with the religious differences, you cannot deny that, of course there were case after that division, but much less than before. And before that we are talking about a long, long time ago. And yes, for Parskahyes, it's more expected for intermarriage to happen because they are living with Persians all around!

Sixth, I really don't know what you are trying to prove with the sex trafficking. Yes it's unfortunate that is goes on, but how the hell does that mean Armenians are intermixing? It's just some prostitutes that are forced to work, it's not like they are having families with these people. You know. Of course, this is a sad reality for several poor ex-Soviet nations.

Seventh, I have never pushed an "opposite" agenda. Cultural assimilation, yes, is dangerous for Armenians. Intermixing is only dangerous when the the Armenian cultural component is lost as a result. There have been intermixed families that did a lot of good to the Armenian nation. So you can't generalise. The one who is trying to seemingly push an Iranian agenda on us is you, by pointing out to some Parskahyes who married Iranians, or that some armenian unsurprisingly mixed with iranians during the first centuries AD, you are trying to push the Armenian nation to be under some "Greater Iran" label, which is just ridiculous. Did you read that genetics article regarding Armenians that I posted? Rather than speculate on what families intermarried thousands of years ago, that article holds all the truths, as science is the most reliable witness here. And last, stop using Parskahyes to represent the Armenians of the world, or to represent the "real Armenians" while Armenians from SSR are not worthy of that title, or are inferior to Parskahyes because they aren't close to Iranians like Parskahyes are. The group of Armenians you should be comparing to is the Armenians of Armenia, because they have lived in an Armenian society with Armenian people, not in a foreign land or foreign society, and thus they are the ones to be compared to.