Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

[arakeretzig]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/armenian-clergy-subjected-to-haredi-spitting-attacks-1.393912

When Narek Garabidian, a Canadian of Armenian extraction, came to Israel to study at the Armenian Orthodox theological seminary in Jerusalem, he never thought he would have to endure harsh insults from passersby.

For the past 18 months, Garabidian said last week, he has been spit at and cursed by ultra-Orthodox passersby in the Old City.


About a month ago he was spit at again, but this time, it hit his clothes. Garabidian, a former football player, said: "I pushed the two young ultra-Orthodox men up against the wall and asked, 'Why are you doing this?' They were really scared and said, 'Forgive us, we're sorry.' So I let them go."

When asked about the matter, Armenian clergymen said they had all been spit at, from the archbishop to the youngest of the divinity students. The most recent incident was on Thursday night, when a group of ultra-Orthodox xxxs got together to spit at the gates of the Armenian church. However, the police found out about the incident and thwarted it by stationing officers in front of the church.

Police say that in every case where a complaint is filed, the offender has been caught thanks to security cameras installed in the Old City.

But in a verdict almost two weeks ago, Jerusalem Magistrate's Court Judge Dov Pollock said: "The enforcement authorities are unable to root out the phenomenon and do not catch the spitters."

Pollock dismissed charges against Johannes Maratersian, an Armenian divinity student, who was spit at by an ultra-Orthodox man in May 2008 and responded by punching the man. Pollock ruled that prosecuting a man who has been spit on for years as he walks down the street in his clerical robes would contravene the principles of justice.

The Jerusalem district police responded: "All complaints of mutual assault are treated with the utmost severity. In the past, more than one case ended with charges being filed and the deportation of clergy involved in assault. As opposed to the situation about three years ago, the frequency of spitting has declined dramatically."

[Mos]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

I doubt they will even openly support AG recognition. I mean after all those years of working against us, it would look pretty bad to all of sudden change teams. It won't be long till relations are back to this:

[Eddo211]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

We all know that these days Turkey and Israel don't get along. They yell at each other like little children and hold grudges against each other over the Flotilla incident. Given this, it has created talk about Israel possibly reaching out to Armenians by supporting Armenian lobby groups or recognising the Genocide. However, we should be careful not to fall into this trap. We cannot be fooled by this childish fight between Israel and Turkey. One simple grudge should not hide the decades of Israel-Turkey alliance and partnership, the decades of Israeli governments fighting hard to support Turkey in other countries such as the US, and of course the fact that Israel maintains very close relations with Azerbaijan, to the point that the Azeri secret intelligence and Mossad cooperate actively. If we fall into the Israeli trap we will just become simply tools. Turkey thinks it can fool the Muslim World by covering up its decades of close alliance with Israel with a this diplomatic fight. Muslim world shouldn't be fooled either by Turkey's tricks, and neither should we be fooled by Israeli tricks to use us. We also cannot afford to possibly endanger our strong relations with Iran by accepting Israel's offers. The Turkey-Israel-Azerbaijan axis is not going to fade away anytime soon, it's just at a low point now, it will be revitalised soon.

Well said Mos jan......I think if Aipac tries to push for the AG recognition the Armenian lobby in US should pull out the resolution this comming year, as hard as that may be. I will still be in front of the Turkish consulate but no matter, I would agree with such move. It will shock them and the Turks. This of course does not mean that we give up the recognation fight, we will never do that, but let them know we are no fools, we know who they both are.

[Mos]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

I understand and agree with your argument about not letting the current situation to allow us to forget the past. However, there's a difference between friendship and a politically motivated alliance. As the Arabs proverb says, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". While it is true that Israel would be using us in this case, why not use them to further our aims with Turkey? It's all in the strategy--a symbiotic relationship (no matter how temporary) with our enemy's current enemy is to our benefit; we have to remove the emotion from politics to be successful at it. Armenians have historically been much too civil/honest/straight-forward/principled in our politics--it's time to step up our game. If Israel's going to treat Armenia like a loose woman and promise her never-ending love for one night of pleasure, I say this loose woman take the sugga daddy for all he's got!!

But they are not the enemy of our biggest enemy Azerbaijan. In fact, those two are close buddies, it's just that they keep their close relationship discrete.

[LadyLazarus]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

We all know that these days Turkey and Israel don't get along. They yell at each other like little children and hold grudges against each other over the Flotilla incident. Given this, it has created talk about Israel possibly reaching out to Armenians by supporting Armenian lobby groups or recognising the Genocide. However, we should be careful not to fall into this trap. We cannot be fooled by this childish fight between Israel and Turkey. One simple grudge should not hide the decades of Israel-Turkey alliance and partnership, the decades of Israeli governments fighting hard to support Turkey in other countries such as the US, and of course the fact that Israel maintains very close relations with Azerbaijan, to the point that the Azeri secret intelligence and Mossad cooperate actively. If we fall into the Israeli trap we will just become simply tools. Turkey thinks it can fool the Muslim World by covering up its decades of close alliance with Israel with a this diplomatic fight. Muslim world shouldn't be fooled either by Turkey's tricks, and neither should we be fooled by Israeli tricks to use us. We also cannot afford to possibly endanger our strong relations with Iran by accepting Israel's offers. The Turkey-Israel-Azerbaijan axis is not going to fade away anytime soon, it's just at a low point now, it will be revitalised soon.

I understand and agree with your argument about not letting the current situation to allow us to forget the past. However, there's a difference between friendship and a politically motivated alliance. As the Arabs proverb says, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". While it is true that Israel would be using us in this case, why not use them to further our aims with Turkey? It's all in the strategy--a symbiotic relationship (no matter how temporary) with our enemy's current enemy is to our benefit; we have to remove the emotion from politics to be successful at it. Armenians have historically been much too civil/honest/straight-forward/principled in our politics--it's time to step up our game. If Israel's going to treat Armenia like a loose woman and promise her never-ending love for one night of pleasure, I say this loose woman take the sugga daddy for all he's got!!

[Serjik]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

Bro Russia is not too worried about radars. Europe is getting weak. Russia is only worried about missiles Turkey is going to host radars. If Turkey was going to host missiles Russia would screw them. US has also enough radars and missile in the Persian gulf and Arabia to take on ten Irans if they have to. For the last time missile shield in Europe or Turkey or the Far East is only meant for Russia. Im doing a lot of reading on this topic.

Missile shield can play multiple roles. However, this one is more aimed at Israeli defence than Russia. There's an illusion of opposition in Europe. They'll all bend down and do what their masters tell them eventually. The Russians made so much noise when the Americans were going to deploy missile shields in Europe but the Turkish one went by quietly with the Russians... Meanwhile, in Iran:

[Serjik]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

Yeah, more I read more I realize that. Everything Europe and America is doing now is connected to Russia and China. My uncle said Putin is preparing to finish off Georgia in the next year or so. I hope he is right. Putin is their nightmare. Hail Putin!!

Yeh the world order has Russia as its main prize. It is taking out Russia's client states one by one and Iran is the biggest. Taking out Russia is to be done over many years in a gradual process and the Russians know this well and they carefully pick their battles like they did in Georgia. I suspect several more carefully picked battles by Russia will put an end to western/zionist wet dreams.

[Mos]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

Apres akhpers! I agree 100%. We should be working to remind the Muslim world of this in case they are themselves falling in the other trap that is being set, the Turkish trap. We don't want crocodile tears from Israel, they have done irreparable damage to our cause over the decades and continue to do so despite the little diplomatic show Turkey and Israel are putting on.

To further demonstrate that they are still in bed, Turkey agreed to host a NATO anti-missile installation right after all this Israeli-Turkish drama. The purpose is to defend Israel from Iran, obviously. Why would Iran EVER attack Europe? It wouldn't commit suicide.

They are just hysterical of Iran. Like Iran would attack Israel or US and risk igniting a world war. Though interestingly enough, given all the fear of Iran, in the past 10 years it has been the US that has been the most aggressive and dangerous, by invading two countries and participating in military action in another. Iran has just stood still.

[Haykakan]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

"cities such as Adana, Diyarbakır and Erzurum were examined as well."
Our own citys are being used against us now-how sad!

[Federate]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

Radars and missile are being based around all the borders of Russia. There is opposition to it in Europe.

Missile shield can play multiple roles. However, this one is more aimed at Israeli defence than Russia. There's an illusion of opposition in Europe. They'll all bend down and do what their masters tell them eventually. The Russians made so much noise when the Americans were going to deploy missile shields in Europe but the Turkish one went by quietly with the Russians... Meanwhile, in Iran:

Iran's Ahmadinejad slams NATO radar in Turkey


Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said, on Tuesday a NATO early-warning radar system that Turkey will host was aimed at protecting Israel.

The agreement between Turkey and NATO came after Turkey succeeded in removing a statement in last year's NATO summit in Lisbon which labeled Iran as one of the potential threats against which the radar could be used. Turkey objected to any wording that branded its neighbor a threat.

"This radar system is more aimed at defending the Zionist regime (of Israel)," Ahmadinejad said in a live television interview late on Tuesday.

"They want to make sure that our missiles do not reach the occupied territories, in case they acted militarily against Iran one day," he added.

"We have told our Turkish friends that it was not right to give this permission and that it was not in their benefit to do this... But such radar system will not stop the fall of the Zionist regime."

PM Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, meanwhile, has repeatedly argued against claims that the radar will be used to defend Israel, arguing that the Israeli state will not receive information because it is not a NATO member country. At a press conference in Washington on Sept. 21, he referred to "an announcement the Pentagon made to reporters, [in which] it was said that this radar will give information to Israel." Erdoğan asserted that both sides had agreed that information sharing would not occur, saying that the Americans have "corrected this and made announcements in connection to it."

Turkish and American officials previously engaged in feasibility studies for the deployment of the radar system in the eastern region of the country and agreed in mid-September that Kürecik in Malatya would be the ideal location. The area had previously been the site of a NATO base which was opened in the '60s and closed in the '90s.

Prime Minister Erdoğan said it is possible to consider the radar system an effective defense measure for Turkey itself and stressed that it is not the missile shield that is expected to be deployed in Malatya. Noting that deploying the radar system in Kürecik is not based on a bilateral agreement, Erdoğan said it is a part of the NATO program and that cities such as Adana, Diyarbakır and Erzurum were examined as well. He added that as there was previously a NATO base in Kürecik, the site was decided on as the best place to host the radar system.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=79837