Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

[Post_Blue]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

i think ara got it right. On a seperate note, looking at kanki's post, i didn't realize there were that many kurds

[Tigranakert]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

This century the map of Turkey will dramatically change. There are forty million ''real'' turks in turkey, and those forty million are dividid in two groups, nationalist and islamists. turkey is surrounded by enemies, Greece, Armenia, Syria, Russia, Iran, Cyprus. The Kurds will be the cause of the beginning of the collapse of Turkey, the rest of the countries will only follow. If the chance comes, we must exterminate all the ''ethnic'' Turks.

Kanki, ofcourse the baboons were among the first to recognize the small piece of land that is in our control now as an independent state, without all those stolen provinces in Western Armenia.

[jgk3]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

yes, genocidal retribution might win you lands for keeps, but then you'll be the same as those who genocided us. If all you care about is winning lands though and you're willing to do anything to get it, I can understand how your obsession can lead you to desire such a revenge and ignore every decent aspect of Christianity that is supposedly inherent in the Armenian people.

[Armanen]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Here is an Armenian proverb for you jgk3, "the weak have no friends"

For Armenia to achieve what it once had, then it must act like the rest of the great powers throughout history have, when the oppourtunity arrives.

[Armanen]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

erdogan will have to pay for the policy that takes turkey back to the times of the ottoman empire

Once again the AKP may appear before the court, but we should bear it in mind that about 60% of the population voted for it, and it was not a voting under pressure.
The Supreme Court of Turkey accused Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoрan of undermining the country's founding principle of secularism. The Court made such an announcement voicing the decision of fining the Justice and Development Party (AKP) led by Erdoрan. According to the Court the Prime-Minister violated Article 68 of the Constitution, which establishes Turkey as a secular state. Erdoрan was reminded about his attempt to lift the ban on female students wearing Muslim headscarves in universities and lower the minimum age at which students attend Koranic classes.
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Supreme Court also dwelt on the Prime-Minister’s other statements, especially on his phrase stating that religion is the basis of the Turkish society. The story began still back in the spring of 2008, when the Prosecutor General of Turkey filed a lawsuit in the Constitutional Court demanding the closure of the AKP, the ruling party of Turkey. Only 2 votes lacked then for banning the activity of the AK party. The Court decided not to close the party then, but it made a resolution to cut off state funding to it.

The accusation against Erdoрan is related to the charge against “Ergenekon”, whose members, according to the charge version, prepared state overturn. It should be noted here that there used to be a silent agreement between the Kemalists and the AKP not to harm each other. However under certain circumstances the agreement was broken. The organization now consists of high-ranking military officers, well-known journalists, and politicians. In all probability “Ergenekon” truly attempted to overthrow the Islamist-rooted Government, realizing perfectly that it is leading Turkey through the same path of Iran. And all the talks about readiness to continue reforms for integration into the EU are nothing more than just talks. In fact, 80 per cent of the population are religious Muslims and they share neither make up with Europe nor relations with the USA. On this background there is a new war breaking out against Kurdish rebels, who have been struggling against Ankara for 30 years and are in no way going to surrender. Failures of Turkish regular forces, the inability to solve the Kurdish problem and the Cyprus problem, not to mention the relations with Armenia seriously destroyed the image of Erdogan government. Actually the Turkish Prime-Minister will have to pay for the policy that does not lead Turkey to prosperity, but takes it back to the times of the Ottoman Empire. Beyond doubt, bases of the Republic founded by Ataturk are pretty far from the Turkish mentality. Ataturk was able to make Turks change at least in appearance. But it was impossible to achieve a final adaptation: Islam does not tolerate shifts from certain dogmas. The only power that represents Kemalism is the General Staff of Turkey, but, according to the Turkish press, it has been weakening its positions lately. More and more officers are bending towards the AKP as the only power capable of rescuing the Turkish Government from collapse. And that the Turkish Government will collapse is beyond doubt as the way of searching one’s identity is full of difficulties.

Alongside with all these issues the problem of recognizing the Armenian Genocide again comes to the fore. Here a great role is also played by the upcoming US Presidential Elections and by aspiration of Turkey to play a leading role in the process of stabilizing the atmosphere in the Caucasus. However, Ankara is reluctant to shift its positions. President Abdullah Gul once more declares that “Everybody was in a state of war at that time (i.e. in 1915). Armenian citizens of the Ottoman Turkey defected to the enemy, while our troops fought on three fronts.” Nothing new can be observed in his statements. We see the same attempts of shifting the blame on the victim. “We have opened all our archive files, even the top secret ones. So, let historians study the issue,” the Turkish President said.

Meanwhile the President assures that he is happy to visit Armenia. “We can't be enemies forever. The Armenian Diaspora impedes normalization of relations between Turkey and Armenia. In spite of all the difficulties I am optimistic about the future. I call for all the interested sides to help with the existing problems: the press, the minorities, the Diaspora. I call for good sense and assistance in normalization of relations between our states,” Abdullah Gul added.

All this is good of course, if we do not take into account the already traditional accusations against the Armenian Diaspora, and the Armenian nation, who simply strive for recognition of mass killings. By the way, recognition of the Genocide will ease Turkey’s way into the EU. Besides, Turkey will finally become a more civilized country that does not evade its history. However, the latter is rather unlikely to happen.

It is quite probable that the AKP once again appears before the court, but we should bear it in mind that about 60% of the population voted for it, and it was not a voting under pressure.

Karine Ter-Sahakyan

http://www.panarmenian.net/details/eng/?nid=946

[jgk3]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Here is an Armenian proverb for you jgk3, "the weak have no friends"

For Armenia to achieve what it once had, then it must act like the rest of the great powers throughout history have, when the oppourtunity arrives.

This is the problem with land... People grow attached to it, it doesn't matter whether its after centuries or after decades, people will kill in order to keep it.

Land actually belongs to much more than nations, it doesn't matter how many rounds you fire on the battlefield, you will still find birds and butterflies, daisies and trees that have no idea what all the racket is for.

Fighting for our nation isn't about fighting for land actually... What was in the past is gone and if you plant a new seed in the old lands, the tree will be as old as the seed you planted, it will not revive what was lost. Only those who are alive now have the past living in them. You will not make the situation any better through retributive ethnic cleansing.

Fighting for our nation involves fighting what's in the heads of our enemy, but to me it also entails striving for a social structure that makes us excel, find simple happiness whilst appreciating of our order, appreciating our nature's bounty and finding peace with our mortal condition through giving to others.

The simple answer of killing all our enemies so they can no longer think the way they do just doesn't have a lasting effect unless you're the British Empire genociding an entire jungle tribe. This is why Armenians were not defeated as a nation by the genocide (and were perhaps more unified than before as a consequence, ironically).

It is sad that it is an effective tactic to massacre the loser to keep them from coming back. It is regional powers, politics that do this. In rarer cases though, you may find individuals (freedom fighters) acting out of concern for the live destruction of their village or town, making an attempt to strike fear into the advancing enemy by giving them a taste of their own medicine regarding the treatment of women and children. At least the latter, rarer case is acting out of concern for its own survival even though it is still an undesirable situation and undesirable course of action to make...

[crusader1492]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Here's a another reason...Europeansust wouldn't do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo7YA1EvbYw&feature=related

[Armenian]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

With no solution to Cyprus and Armenian issues, Turkey’s EU prospects out of question

Daniel Gros, director of the Brussels-based Center for European Policy Studies, warned Turkey it would need to get things moving. “Turkey is losing time,” said Gros, adding that he has seen no progress in Turkey’s reform process for EU membership. “The two big s tumbling blocks, Cyprus and Armenia, sooner or later have to be resolved.” “The later Turkey takes steps on the Cyprus issue, the more difficult it will become as each year passes,” Gros said. “If there is no solution to the Cyprus and Armenian issues, we will not be able to speak about Turkey’s EU prospects.” The Armenian issue is, “a secondary question,” because it is not a member of the EU, Gros added, placing the emphasis on Cyprus. He said he remained optimistic over the future of northern Cyprus. “As long as northern Cyprus develops nicely, which it seems to be doing now, over time it will become a de facto state and this reality will be recognized,” Gros said, the Turkish Daily News reports.

Source: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=27544

[jgk3]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

With no solution to Cyprus and Armenian issues, Turkey’s EU prospects out of question

Daniel Gros, director of the Brussels-based Center for European Policy Studies, warned Turkey it would need to get things moving. “Turkey is losing time,” said Gros, adding that he has seen no progress in Turkey’s reform process for EU membership. “The two big s tumbling blocks, Cyprus and Armenia, sooner or later have to be resolved.” “The later Turkey takes steps on the Cyprus issue, the more difficult it will become as each year passes,” Gros said. “If there is no solution to the Cyprus and Armenian issues, we will not be able to speak about Turkey’s EU prospects.” The Armenian issue is, “a secondary question,” because it is not a member of the EU, Gros added, placing the emphasis on Cyprus. He said he remained optimistic over the future of northern Cyprus. “As long as northern Cyprus develops nicely, which it seems to be doing now, over time it will become a de facto state and this reality will be recognized,” Gros said, the Turkish Daily News reports.

Source: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=27544

What does the EU exactly demand from Turkey concerning Cyprus?

[Armanen]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

What does the EU exactly demand from Turkey concerning Cyprus?

Well the eu doesn't recognize n. cyprus, while turkey does, which violates a eu memberstates territorial integrity, that is one. Another is that n. cyprus and cyprus still have closed borders, other than the recent opening of the capital city, the rest of the border is closed. Also I think there may be an issue with Cypriot ships not being able to harbor at turkish ports, not sure if this is still the case though.