Iraq... an Armenian view.

[Thai-Samurai]

what's wrong w/ kocharian? I don't know anything about him.

[xBaron Dants]

Well, kudos to him for keeping the country stable and the economy growing. But corruption, poverty and inequality still run rampant.

[Thai-Samurai]

oh I see, I heard he was making a hotel privately owned by himself fom reading these forums. In my opinion if someone were trying to help Armenia as much as they can, they wouldn't have the resources to fund something like that. Because every little bit counts in other areas.

[TJ]

Vrouyr, i have to say i have been swinging back and forth from Kocharian to opposition ever since the whole presidential campaign started. At this point I have just decided that there is nothing much we can gain from changing from Kocharian to anyone in the opposition. I think Kocharian has Armenia's best interests at heart but needs a lot of support to stay in office and therefore cant make some right decisions sometimes because it will alienate his support groups.
The only political party in Armenia whom I trust to a creidble extent is Dashnaktsyun because i feel that in matters of corruption and the xxxxed up society in general they are always on the side of justice. But I tend to disagree a lot with their militant ideals about keeping the border with turkey closed and demanding genocide recognition before establishing ties and all that ultra nationalist stuff because its counterproductive and unrealistic.

[xBaron Dants]

About the Dashnaktsutyun, I congratulated them recently for some good steps they have taken, but I don't trust them because I am not convinced that their decisions are always made in Armenia. The ARF central board is composed of ARFers from all around the world, and while I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing to have a body like that, I also don't think that anyone outside of Armenia should be allowed to call the shots. And I also am not a fan of ultranationalism, and while the ARF is not the most ultranationalist in Armenia, I do not like people who are not open to propositions. Also, while they know what to say most of the time, I am not thoroughly convinced of their cleanliness (when it comes to corruption, yevayln).

As for the opposition, when the uncalled-for government crackdown occured on the opposition protest, I was fuming. However, the opposition has proven itself to be nothing but a bunch of fools. Boycotting parliament? Is that what people elected you for? And jeez, if they had won such an overwhelming majority (I don't think any polls even showed Demirchyan being ahead of Kocharian), they'd be able to get more public support. They're basically the same filth, but dumber.

[obi]

I never assumed I was "100% right about all things 100% of the time". But I've heard similar claims from people I've argued against in countless other political arguments...
You are the one who cannot refute my arguments. You are the one who says:
"cuz when the dust settles, and all the local folks are drinking coffee from starbucks, the world sees them as being good deeds we did".
Which is nothing short of a joke, but I don't really expect you to understand that. I'm sure the Iraqis were just praying for this "Coalition of the Willing" to invade their sovereign nation and kill and maim hundreds of thousands of it's citizens in the name of liberty and freedom and justice so that, at the end of the day when the "dust settles" they can sit down and drink some starbuck's coffee.
You claim your "suggestions are open for debate", yet I have seen no debate, just comments such as "Not up for your personal translation of events you have no idea about" and "You have taken an observation and smeered with your own paranoid and distorted beliefs" and so on.

Yep, some clever people here. When one passes on his own countries points of view he is then persecuted by the many. Read your countries history on genocide to understand this more.... not nice. Very open minded.

[xBaron Dants]

Yep, some clever people here. When one passes on his own countries points of view he is then persecuted by the many. Read your countries history on genocide to understand this more.... not nice. Very open minded.

We are giving you our own opinion. Does open-mindedness involve everybody agreeing with you?

[obi]

We are giving you our own opinion. Does open-mindedness involve everybody agreeing with you?

No Dants, of course it doesn't. My opinion is from a free europeans point of view. The ones i see here reflect those of a nations that is lost, in turmoil. As an outsider it is much easier to see a problem and see a solution. In England and America we had corruption and mafia type control, but we stood up to it. Said 'no more'.

I hear jibes because i say do not live in the past. Then they say "it was only early 70's".... yes, In politics a long time ago. To argue the claim that things do not change so fast i will just mention the Berlin Wall, the break up of the former ussr. And many more...

We are moving toward world peace. Armenian people do not see this. The Czech Republik lived as you do, but they have seen where they were going wrong. In the Ukraine, they have said "NO" to corruption. Please watch them grow for my proof. All embargos will be lifted, free trade.

We were at war with France for over 200 years, then one day someone said hey, rather than watch our children die why not try talking to them???? Reach an agreement. What I am saying is that each year you spend 6% of your GDP on military, yet 40% of your people live in poverty???? To europe that is crazy, cruel... stupid. It makes Armenia look unstable. And why you do this??? Because of Turkey. Even now you think all will attack you, you have no trust... Other nations will not trust you if you do not trust.

All I can say is that within 20 years you will all know a new way of life, and you will trust... And this forum will still be open, so thank me then, Amen.

[xBaron Dants]

Umm...we spend 6% of our GDP on our military because of Azerbaidjan. You try hugging them. You want to see cruel, see their reaction when we tell them that we decided to no longer invest in our army.

And will it also take 200 years to make you decide that your children shouldn't die and start talking to Iraqis?

Your all-knowing, holier-than-thou and hypocritical attitude is actually rather sickening. Thank you for your free european point of view, but I'd rather live without it.

[IAmMadAtAC]

No. You cannot see how polarized the world is getting, so you keep believing in your world peace theories. Peace can never come about through war. 20 years ago it was commies, today it's the "terrorists", 20 years later it'll be the eskimos or something, provided WW4 isn't raging by then.
Yes, I'm a crazy paranoid lunatic. Hate me. 20 years from now, if the forum is still open, you can tell me how sorry you are that you weren't as delusional as me.

All the US has done in Iraq is united forces against us, and given them nice easy places to attack us. I get sick when Bush and people portray this as "we're fighting them there so we don't have to do it here". No, we are fighting them there because the boss wants them to and we're getting the obvious reaction (to everyone but the Bush team) of insurgency against us. This happened to the Soviets in Afghanistan, why didn't we see this coming? Well frankly I'm sure many did, but the Bush team either wanted to overlook it or actually believed that crap they fed us (which I didn't believe for one minute) that we'd be welcomed as liberators.
All this that's going on obi is not bringing a better life to Iraq. I have heard from more than one Iraqi that they needed a dictator like Saddam in Iraq to keep the many ethnic groups under control. With him gone, either we have Iraq break up into seperate ethnically-dictated countries, or we have civil war, and basically that civil war is inevitable. Do you think this insurgency will ever end? No! To get the job done of rebuilding Iraq we'll need to be there 10 years or so, and the insurgents will be there killing us every step of the way. American dreams of the insurgency vanishing once elections are done are so naive it makes me sad for my country. This is a mini-Vietnam (a comparision I would have never dared make a year ago) because 1. it is clear we are stuck there for years and 2. it is clear the insurgency will not just go away. Do you think the American soliders and the American people will put up with 10 years of 100+ of our soldiers killed per MONTH? That is at least a thousand per year, and I expect that number to go up as time goes on. Will they stand for that? No! But there is no real way to defeat the insurgency, so what do we do? Our backs are up against a wall. We haven't brought peace to Iraq, we've brought civil war! Here are my two predictions for Iraq, one or the other is very likely to happen:
1. After years of 100-200 American deaths per month in Iraq, America has a harder and harder time finding soldiers to go over there. At the same time public favor for Iraq has severely waned and there is little support for it. These factors along with the insurgency causes America to have to pull out of Iraq, and it falls into civil war.
2. Despite America still being there in the next year or two, Iraq falls into civil war anyway, and the situation gets so messy that America has to pull out.
It's either those or a darker third option of America staying there during the civil war and losing even more soliders than we already are. Still feeling so upbeat Obi?