I'm absolutely disgusted

[Anonymouse]

You would probably enjoy reading this (if you haven't already)



This is a bit of an exaggeration...

Not necessarily. I do not posit a direct causal connection, but a more indirect correlation between the rulers, the condition and the need to get out of the country.

[axel]

Not necessarily. I do not posit a direct causal connection, but a more indirect correlation between the rulers, the condition and the need to get out of the country.

Of course . I just put forward the one consequence that appeared the most far-fetched

Still, the government must not be a scapegoat for all our shortcomings. The rulers are also a reflection of society and, sometimes, a people gets the rulers it deserves. (I am not saying it is the case, I don't know enough to be able to express a fair judgement)

[karoaper]

OK, the government of Armenia sucks. That much is clear. Although it's much better than what we had to deal with in early and mid 90s. Considering we had Vasgen Sarkissian (RIP), who as the minister of defence sent his own commandos around town killing opponents and mafia lords, so that he could put up his relatives as new mafia lords and politicians. Compared to the corruption we saw during those times of early growing pains, today's situation is a marked progress. It's still horrible of course, but you must realize that Armenia is just a 14 year old democracy and it has not been given a fair try, what with the influences from Russia and US. Each country supporting their own key players who are very corrupt and do what they will. Why do the people allow this sharade to go on? Because their expectations and democratic savvy are still in infancy. Like I said you can't have a communist regime followed by utter confusion one second and then expect a robust democratic process the next second. Each election in Armenia is like a circus with 100s of candidates and parties, most of em jokes (the elections in California reminded me Armenia's elections). Just being able to participate in this circus is amazing enough for people. With time, the people will demand more. Just give em time.
Hey, compared to Azeris (where the presidency is more like monarchy going from father to son) and Georgians (where they had the same guy for 20 years) and most of the other former Soviet republics, Armenia is suprisingly advanced.

[axel]

I guess everyone agrees this is a transition period.

But I am not much of a believer in "democracy". obviously, there is no ideal political system. Still I hold democracy to be one of the worst. In history, its advent almost always coincides with the decadence of nations.
One of its major flaws being clientelism in which it almost certainly degenerates, leading to short-sightedness in decision-making among other things. And there are others.

in democracy, public opinion rules. the question is then what determines public opinion?

here's what Solzhenitsyn has to say about the press in the "democratic" west (this is an excerpt from his famous Harvard address which is definitely a must read):

Such as it is, however, the press has become the greatest power within the Western countries, more powerful than the legislature, the executive and the judiciary. One would then like to ask: by what law has it been elected and to whom is it responsible? In the communist East a journalist is frankly appointed as a state official. But who has granted Western journalists their power, for how long a time and with what prerogatives?

There is yet another surprise for someone coming from the East where the press is rigorously unified: one gradually discovers a common trend of preferences within the Western press as a whole. It is a fashion; there are generally accepted patterns of judgment and there may be common corporate interests, the sum effect being not competition but unification. Enormous freedom exists for the press, but not for the readership because newspapers mostly give enough stress and emphasis to those opinions which do not too openly contradict their own and the general trend.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/solzhenitsyn/harvard1978.html

it appears that what fashions public opinion is in fact a small fraction of the population, interest groups, lobbies which at best have at heart the interest of the nation, most likely not, for this fraction is almost always composed of people having nothing in common with the nation they have settled in, no emotional bound whatsoever or else hatred and a hysterical resolve of destroying culture and tradition, cosmopolites, as they are sometimes referred to.

this in fact contradicts the actual principle of democracy which is a mere utopia, the actual system known as such being far from it, still deriving its legitimacy from the myth.

"Democracy" in the ex-soviet republics seems to be more of trojan horse for "western" influence than anything else. the new charter that is imposed upon armenia by the EU (a mere puppet of america, itself...) by its reinforcement of parliament will likely further accentuate political impotency.

[winoman]

Yeah I agree - Democracy is absolutey the worst system/concept of government inveted by man...except perhaps every other one...

[winoman]

Just to add - there will always be political elites in societies - always - and there will always be a large % of the population that just can't be bothered. What makes Democracy so powerful is that anyone has the ability to be involved and to some extent heard - regardless of the existance of elites and power blocks or what have you - ultimatly elected representation is at the mercy of the electorate. Sure we are often hampered by limited choices and worse - but there are still ways to get heard and to influence your representatives who again are at the mercy of the voters. Believe me - it is possible to get nearly any elected official to sit up and take notice - there are ways - and there are ways that people can participate in government and in the getting things done/being heard that are only indirectly related to the actual elections themselves - if you haven't been involved in such perhaps you just don't appreciate the power the regular people can have. Anyway the key is education. Educated people make better decisions pure and simple and are less able to be fooled by the BS. The critique of the press is particualrly laughable in this open (and informationally uncontrolled) internet age - and again an educated populace can see through the BS and understand the spin and the restrictions on the type of information that big corporate entities with vested interests and such are likely to present. Sure there are a miriad of problems with how Democracy has been implementred and the critiques are entirely valid - clientism though while a problem (with pandering to $$$ interests that may not be in the best interests of the population as a whole) is also the centerpiece of the system and can be seen positvely as well - it is certainly better then outright having no chance in h ell of being a participant type of systems where the people are clearly secondary/afterthought to the state and entirely at the mercy of such. Obvioulsy we would all be better off without Government at all if we weren't so short sighted and self interested (to the point of being willing to harm or at least take advantage of others and act in ways to the detriment of the common good) - in the meantime its a bit of a necessary evil - that must always be held in check and called to task and Democratic systems are the best way of doing such. The harm comes when we sacrifice the values of freedom and personal empowerment and self-expression - not when we allow and encourage it.

[axel]

What makes Democracy so powerful is that anyone has the ability to be involved and to some extent heard

"and to some extent"...

what characterizes this system best is lie and deception. nothing to love, nothing to value. the invisible monarch is a j*wish crook.

[winoman]

"and to some extent"...

what characterizes this system best is lie and deception. nothing to love, nothing to value. the invisible monarch is a j*wish crook.

Ah I see - here we have it - the Illuminati just controls the world so why bother eh?

[axel]

nothing to do with conspiracy theories... I am not much of a believer in these would-be self-fulfilling prophecies. (Everything man conceives is bound to collapse one way or another as the tower of babel did)
I am simply not interested in modern "democracy" which is a sham (and actually not in democracy in the absolute) with the hierarchy made invisible (no need to be a "conspirationist" to grasp that reality, for hierarchy exists one way or another, be it visible or not).
the "democratic"/modern world is void of everything. this is an obvious truth to any sane person (not one from Huxley's brave new world that is)

[Thai-Samurai]

Armenia is doing better. Except what happened was during the soviet collapse people were hungry to be rich, the powerful ones sold all of Armenia's assets to foreign investors and pocketed the money. Then they monopolized business'. Such as Dodi Gago owns half of all gasoline importation and cement in Armenia, etc etc. However the mafia is pretty much settled now. Not too much more damage can be done; except for more people getting evicted, but now Armenia does have to become more democratic because there's no other choice, there's no other choice but to become better. However the quality of people here is pretty low, that's due to being fenced in w/ no "open air" as I think about it. Armenia isn't a country where everyone can come and go easily. If we had more foreigners living here people would behave differently.
I don't know, it seems like it's getting better, but the mafia still has the power and it still makes major choices for it's benefit. Maybe one day it'll change.