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Armenian Politics Vol. 2

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  • #11
    Re: War in The Middle East

    Originally posted by Armenian
    I am not very upset about what happened on ctober 27, 1999.

    you are making something out of someone who was not a good politician at all nor was he a true Armenian patriot. Nonethelss, the assassinations had to do with region's superpower politics, so it is was over our head to discuss.


    Dude, I could care less about his activities as a politician. Like you said, he was as corrupt as the rest. With that said, there was also a huge difference b/w him and the rest.

    He was a brillitiant military strategist, the best we had. Vazgen Sargsyan fought selflessly for the sake of Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh. He was the among the first to organize battallions of volunteers when the conflict first broke out while other gogh avazagner were plundering and stealing from the dead after the earthquake.

    I don't see what his brilliant military record has to do with his political abilities.


    Intent to give up lands was one of the reasons that almost cost Levon Ter Petrossian his life in 1998.
    You seem to be forgetting who was primarily responsible for throwing LTP out of power.... you guessed it, Mr. Vazgen.

    Seems to me like when his country was endangered, he made a "correct" political step, eh?


    As a mater of fact, I know quite a few Yerevantsis and Artsakh veterans that would have killed Sarkissian by themselves had the been given the chance.
    Bro, you can't be serious. Here you are praising a guy-the paper defense minister Serge Sargsyan-a man whose legs Armenian war veterans would rip off his butt if they got their hands on him- and you're talking about people wanting to wack V. Sarkissian?

    The only people who hated Vazgen were those corrupt, money-loving crooks who stole the peoples money.

    "For the military, Vazgen Sargsian was the founder of a victorious army and the inspiration of the armed forces." --Page 252, Modern Armenia.


    "The combination of Sargsian and Demirjian proved irresistable to the voters of Armenia-already suspicious of Kocharian's tactics, personality, and ultimate concerns. In the parliamentary elections of mid 1999 the Sargsian-Demirjian coalition won a comfortable majority and became the opposition to President Kocharian. Demirjian was elected president of the National Assembly and, reluctantly, Kocharian had to appoint Vazgen Sarkissian prime minister. Kocharians powers were severely curtailed, for the second time tipping the balance of power in favor of the parliament. While formally cordial, relations between the president and National Assembly and between Kocharian and Sargsian deteriorated."

    "The New prime minister, who as defense minister had often clashed with prime ministers, for the first time had assumed the responsibility of reconciling the exigencies of a "no-war no-peace" situation with social-economic progress. He declared war against corruption and inefficiency, tightened the tax collection system, confessed love for the Diaspora, and tried to facilitate investments. Known for his close contacts with Russia, he even paid an official visit to Washington, hoping to dispel his image as a point-man for Moscow." (a politically correct move in balancing b/w east and west, no?)

    ---Page 251-2, Modern Armenia.
    Last edited by Artsakh; 07-29-2006, 01:08 PM.

    Comment


    • #12
      Re: War in The Middle East

      Originally posted by Armenian
      Vazgen Sarkissian and Karen Demirjian were as corrupt as anyone else.
      “Without October 27, the current economic state of Armenia would mainly depend on Vazgen Sargsyan’s policy regarding corruption,” says political analyst Tigran Gevorgyan. “The Armenian Prime Minister, it is known, had declared war against corruption, as a result of which either him or the corruption would possibly be eliminated.


      “In this respect, we shouldn’t forget about the so-called ‘Albert Gore’s list’ indicating the most corrupted persons of Armenia. The U.S. vice-president had handed that list to Armenia’s Prime Minister Vazgen Sargsyan, and there are grounds to be confident Sargsyan waged war against those indicated on the list. Generally, those were people from his own circle. It is unknown where that list is now. Nonetheless, it is obvious that if Vazgen Sargsyan succeeded in the struggle against corruption, the current economic state of Armenia would be quite better off.”

      Comment


      • #13
        Re: War in The Middle East

        Originally posted by Anonymouse
        Kocharyan is also the one during the meeting in Bucharest in June, that has been negotiating with Azerbaijan and in the exchange is alot of territories that is now occupied by Armenians. Why would Armenian loving president do that? All that fighting and bloodshed was for nothing if you ask me.
        Have you heard some of the statements made by the "defense minister" in the face of continuous Azeri war rhetoric threatening to wipe Armenia off the map?

        Nonetheless, neither the previous authorities nor the current one are capable of giving up land: not would that mean giving their posts, but it would also mean giving up their lives.

        Comment


        • #14
          Re: War in The Middle East

          TERRITORIES TILL KUR MUST BE OCCUPIED"

          The defenders of those territories consider.

          "I call not only to Serge Sargsian but to other figures of our state leadership not only in my name but in the name of several military men who are in the army today. I also speak in the name of thousands of participants of the war and also in the name of our victims. Gentlemen, your way of acting is treacherous, I call to you to stop it unless you'll be punished very severely,"- the member of public initiation "Defense of occupied territories" Jirair Sefilian called to the RA Minister of Defense and other members of our leadership. "I'm sorry that the Minister of Defense speaks about concessions. It is a great stab for our army, for the courage of our army. If the responsible for our army speaks about concessions day and night what must the whole personnel of the army do? If Serge wants to become a president let him leave his post and become a politician,"- J. Sefilian added.
          The members of "Defense of Occupied Territories" also declared that they didn't accept the policy of ceding occupied territories adopted by our authorities. "Concessions realized by words and also by activities mislead the international community which more strengthens its demands towards Armenia, Azerbaijan which becomes stronger and more self-confident and our people that don't believe in any politician any more,"- is said in the declaration of the initiation. Jirair Sefilian thought that the international pressure "has been strengthened not on the Armenian nation but on other rulers who reached to this deadlock by their unfair activities. They don't think of anything besides staying in their posts, keeping their authority. Nowadays authority is devoid of Armenianism. They mustn't be taken seriously. Not only I but also the whole nation is the owner of those territories. And let them not frighten me by the war. The same situation was in '92 if we didn't war we wouldn't save our existance."
          Mr. Sefilian was asked that if our forces reached till Kirovabad or Baku they would also be called occupied territories? The answer was the following: "It would be called occupied till Kur and it will be called one day." Another representative of the same initiation Armen Aghayan added "as well as Nakhijevan".

          Comment


          • #15
            Re: War in The Middle East

            Originally posted by Armenian
            Bottom line......
            You forgot to add mafia-style shootouts in broad daylight.

            Armenia has good political/economic/military relations with Russia
            Good relations with Russia? after selling all of the country's industries and factories to the Russians, the current authorities have practically rendered Armenia a province of Russia.

            These moreons in power even intend to sell Armenia's share of the Iran-Armenia pipeline to the Russians.
            Last edited by Artsakh; 07-29-2006, 10:40 AM.

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            • #16
              Re: War in The Middle East

              Originally posted by Artsakh
              Dude, I could care less about his activities as a politician. Like you said, he was as corrupt as the rest. With that said, there was also a huge difference b/w him and the rest.
              How could you care less about his activities as a politican if he was a self-described politician? We have discussed this before. I my opinion, Vazgen meant well, but he (and his brother) were a bunch of gyughatsis.

              He was a brillitiant military strategist, the best we had. Vazgen Sargsyan fought selflessly for the sake of Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh. He was the among the first to organize battallions of volunteers when the conflict first broke out while other gogh avazagner were plundering and stealing from the dead after the earthquake.
              A professional military man would laugh at your comment. The only real major military figure we have had and still have is Seyran Ohanyan, the rest more-or-less, have been warlords. I have also personally met quite a few Artsakh war veterans (real mardiks not wannabes) who would have killed Vazgen themselves had they gotten their hands on him. Vazgen caused many serious blunders in Artsakh due to his inexperiance. Don't forget, Vazgen was a physical education teacher prior to the war. Although sometimes he is given credit for creating the Armenian army the real credit, however, goes to Paruir Hayrikian and Vazgen Manukyan.

              You seem to be forgetting who was primarily responsible for throwing LTP out of power.... you guessed it, Mr. Vazgen. Seems to me like when his country was endangered, he made a "correct" political step, eh?
              True Vazgen and Robert Kocharyan together got rid of the traitor Levon Ter Petrosyan. However, later on, Vazgen fell victim to American manipulations. The assassinations in 1999 had something to do with the Paul Goble plan. Vazgen and Demirjian seemed to be getting too close with the US State Department. Therefore, I think this gave other 'forces' within the Armenian government the opporunity to clear house again. Most probably, the Russian secret service had something to do with the event.

              The only people who hated Vazgen were those corrupt, money-loving crooks who stole the peoples money.
              Actually, its the other way around. Next time you are in Yerevan I suggest you do some more research. Anyway, please stay on topic here. If you want to discuss Vazgen do so within another thread. Lets keep this thread focused on the Middle East.

              You forgot to add mafia-style shootouts in broad daylight.
              I did not expect this kind of a reply from you Artsakh, shame on you. No matter how you look at it, Armenia is amongt the safest countries in the world today. And if you take into consideration the socioeconomic and geopolitical situation the country is in, its really impressive and says alot about the people and goverment. Mafia style shootouts happen in all nations. Put things in a proper perspective next time you try to make a point. Now please get back on topic here.
              Last edited by Armenian; 07-29-2006, 11:10 AM.
              Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

              Նժդեհ


              Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #17
                Re: War in The Middle East

                I'll try to stay on topic, after making a quick response.

                Originally posted by Armenian

                Don't forget, Vazgen was a physical education teacher prior to the war.

                and Samvel Babayan-the other absolutely brilliant tactician- used to wash cars prior to the war. And your point is?

                and yes, Seyran Ohanyan was a valueable asset. There are many such people. Arkady ter Tatevosyan was crucial in the liberation of Sushi. But the main figures who oversaw the success of the whole operation were Vazgen Sarkissian and Samvel Babyan, and Monte Melkonyan.

                Comment


                • #18
                  Re: War in The Middle East

                  Originally posted by Artsakh
                  and Samvel Babayan-the other absolutely brilliant tactician- used to wash cars prior to the war. And your point is?
                  The point is such 'unpolished' men cannot be trusted with leading a nation. They had their moment during crisis, in peace times they need to disappear. Babayan, as brave as he was in battle, messed up politically, so did Vazgen. For Babayan, messing up cost him his freedom, for Vazgen, it cost him his life. Monte Melkonian was a unique individual, he went from a CIA operative in the Mideast to a warlord in Artsakh. His life is shrouded in mystery. Now get back on topic please.
                  Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                  Նժդեհ


                  Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Re: War in The Middle East

                    Originally posted by Anonymouse
                    Correct, the topic being the War in the Middle East and not Armenian politics/history which we have a separate section for and might I add, highly underused and underrated.
                    Moderator, I did not begin the discussion of Armenian affairs within this thread. Also, is it possible to move these individual posts regarding armenian politics/affairs to a new thread so that we may continue our discussion there, as I've got more to say and don't want to end it without giving a rebuttle.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Re: Armenian Politics Vol. 2

                      Sarkisyan Vazgen, Mi hayordi vor der petq e aprer yev pashtpaner mer joghovurd@ yev Yerkir@ vosoxnerits. sparapeti glux@ keran dashnakner@. Joghovurd, dashnaksutyun@ azgi tshnami e. Hayastanum hryaneri patvern en iragordzum sranq.

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