The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

So Armenian, why are Javakhk Armenians not taking advantage of this opportunity to create a 3rd front while Russian backup is guaranteed?

When do they think will be a better time to liberate Javakhk?

When Russia creates a de facto border with Javakhk/Armenia Right now if you did not hear, Georgia is cutting gas supplies to Armenia so you can imagine the situation if they close the border altogether.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

So Armenian, why are Javakhk Armenians not taking advantage of this opportunity to create a 3rd front while Russian backup is guaranteed? When do they think will be a better time to liberate Javakhk?

Several reasons:

1) Due to Armenia's bad economic and political health no serious effort has been taken to arm and/or organize the Armenian population in the region.

2) We don't know what the final outcome of the current war between Russia and Georgia will be. Getting directly involved may make Armenia totally isolated politically and economically.

3) Unlike in Nagorno Karabagh, Russia has never signalled that it would support Armenia's claims on Javakhq.

4) Armenia currently has serious domestic problems (Levon supporters, western pressure) and economic problems (transition economy, blockade, curruption, isolation, etc.)

5) Armenia endangering Georgia's south would force Turkey and Azerbaijan to get invlved, thereby triggering a wider international conflict.

6) While the case for Ossetia and Abkhazia has been made for many years, out case for Javakhq has remained out of international discussions.

Thus, expecting an Armenian front in Javakhq would be grossly unrealistic/foolish, at this point in time.

[Palavra]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

So are you a Kemalist yourself?

The impression I get from the leadership of most Kemalists/secular Turks (especially the generals in charge of the coups) is that they are pro-US and especially pro-Israel. The Islamists are generally the ones that are anti-US and anti-Israel.

Becoming pro-USA or pro-russian because of your ideology(kemalist or islamist no different.) is stupidy. Some people should learn do not mix inner politics with international politics.

Also, kemalists are also Pro-USA(More than islamists.) Kemalist army never did any coup without USA permission and most pro-USA, NATO and israel organization in Turkey is army.

By the way, This is not a bad thing. What can we gain allying with russia? Oh, maybe russia can sell ROA but not a big gain If you ask me. Our and russian benefit is not generally goes some way.(except trade.)

[Kanki]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

So are you a Kemalist yourself?

The impression I get from the leadership of most Kemalists/secular Turks (especially the generals in charge of the coups) is that they are pro-US and especially pro-Israel. The Islamists are generally the ones that are anti-US and anti-Israel.

No, I am not kemalist
I am independent from politic movements.

Kemalists never wanted to be near US.

By the way, only Russia assisted Turks when we were fighting against to Greeks, anglosaksons(Britons), Frenchs to get our independece. They gave us weapons only Russia helped us during period of 1920-1923(Turkish Independent War- fail of treaty Sevres)
and Russia recognized new Turkish state first. Ataturk had said many words about well Turco-Russian Relations.. .it went on until second World War. (Ataturk was not alive, died in 1938)

[RSNATION]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Several reasons:

1) Due to Armenia's bad economic and political health no serious effort has been taken to arm and/or organize the Armenian population in the region.

2) We don't know what the final outcome of the current war between Russia and Georgia will be. Getting directly involved may make Armenia totally isolated politically and economically.

3) Unlike in Nagorno Karabagh, Russia has never signalled that it would support Armenia's claims on Javakhq.

4) Armenia currently has serious domestic problems (Levon supporters, western pressure) and economic problems (transition economy, blockade, curruption, isolation, etc.)

5) Armenia endangering Georgia's south would force Turkey and Azerbaijan to get invlved, thereby triggering a wider international conflict.

6) While the case for Ossetia and Abkhazia has been made for many years, out case for Javakhq has remained out of international discussions.

Thus, expecting an Armenian front in Javakhq would be grossly unrealistic/foolish, at this point in time.

I agree. As much as we would all like to see Javakh attached to Armenia, Armenian has given very good reasons for Armenia and Javakh to wait and see. They should do and Sun Tzu says; think fast and wait. Moving to fast will make Armenia and international pariah. They need to build up their case for the outside world.

In the meantime, they can cause problems for the the BTC pipeline, and the new railroad, as well as organize their militias. They can also get a more bold, and try to force the remaining Georgian population to get uncomfortable so they will leave.

Armenians in Javakh and maybe even Artsakh are not assured of Russian support.

[Palavra]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

do your history knowledge limited only with 1920?

and much important, what the hell, history and international politic is related. Nations are not friend or enemy of each other. You should forget such romantic ideas. Remember, Ottoman-Russian wars.

[Kanki]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Also, kemalists are also Pro-USA(More than islamists.) Kemalist army never did any coup without USA permission and most pro-USA, NATO and israel organization in Turkey is army.

Today , Army is complately controlled by goverment so it is not important being kemalist and all army generals are not really Kemalist. Such as Kenan Evren who was military leader, made military coup.

[Palavra]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I agree. As much as we would all like to see Javakh attached to Armenia, Armenian has given very good reasons for Armenia and Javakh to wait and see. They should do and Sun Tzu says; think fast and wait. Moving to fast will make Armenia and international pariah. They need to build up their case for the outside world.

In the meantime, they can cause problems for the the BTC pipeline, and the new railroad, as well as organize their militias. They can also get a more bold, and try to force the remaining Georgian population to get uncomfortable so they will leave.

Armenians in Javakh and maybe even Artsakh are not assured of Russian support.

Pardon me, Why should armenians cause problems for BTC? what would gain armenians from this?

[Kanki]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

do your history knowledge limited only with 1920?

and much important, what the hell, history and international politic is related. Nations are not friend or enemy of each other. You should forget such romantic ideas. Remember, Ottoman-Russian wars.

heh, they were in the past.

Why do I choose US and J E Ws ? ? ? It is very stupidly. Also United States provided Kurds to set up Kurdistan in North Iraq whic is a real danger for Turkey's territorial integrity!

and gives money and weapon Pejak which is PKK's other wing. So they help PKK!

[Palavra]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Today , Army is complately controlled by goverment so it is not important being kemalist and all army generals are not really Kemalist. Such as Kenan Evren who was military leader, made military coup.

Say it to my ass. Just one year before, They tried to make a coup and just one one weak before, They(This time with the help of courts) again tried to get AKP down.

I should also say, If army is not kemalist, they are not even 1% kemalist in Turkey. Not much important.

Anyway, What is relation with becoming a kemalist and becoming a pro-russian? is this a default?