The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Artashes]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

That’s a long post Hakob. In short, not to go off track, the world is a more complex place than being nationalistic. I laugh when I see Georgians or Ukrainians fighting Russians with Russian made arms.
I do not have any affinity to Russia, but I choose them any day over the West and its manipulative institutions that keeps telling us to give back Artsakh. Let us keep it at that.

--- I choose them (Russia) over the west and its manipulative... ---
I definitely agree on that !
I think we have a chance to get out of a Russian bear hug, but no chance to escape the terminal cancer that is the capitalist west's offer.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azad Jan we have allready picked up that partner for past 200 years. It has not always worked out has it?...

That’s a long post Hakob. In short, not to go off track, the world is a more complex place than being nationalistic. I laugh when I see Georgians or Ukrainians fighting Russians with Russian made arms.
I do not have any affinity to Russia, but I choose them any day over the West and its manipulative institutions that keeps telling us to give back Artsakh. Let us keep it at that.

[ayrudzi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azad Jan we have allready picked up that partner for past 200 years. It has not always worked out has it?
It is one thing to discuss geopolitical partnership but another to glorify a "partner" to a point of destroying your own identity, ambitions, prospective thinking and national conscience.
Mother Russia is mother for Russians only, but for us it is mother Armenia ( however dear, this word is as strange to some Armenians as saying "your's is mother Mars").
For over 1500 years we have people devoting themselfs to powerful rulers, like Bizanteens, then explaining to themselfs that it is for their people's good. But in the result from regular nation in it's time we have become just a handful with territory equal to some other nations doormats.
You cannot dogmatise your dependence and subservience to any other nation than your own. You cannot block and blind your mindset with any other power than your own (otherwise you can never own any power).
You probably remember how fiercely I debated against any idea for European Union as our savior. Now I will say the same for Russia too. That is because any thought of one entity or another being our savior or benefactor is Very Wrong.
A geopolitical partner can never be a savior and benefacor. As soon it sees that that's how you approach to the relation ( as a savior) then it will start behaving as your owner.
If you think like that you will always loose.
However much I have tried to suppress the concept that our blind devotion to Russia greatly contributed to inciting the great genocide in hands of Turks, because it could be used in anti Russian propaganda, is actually very true.
But in debth, it is not Russia's fault as much as is our's because instead of developing our true national goals and policies, we just put our selfs as Russia's disposable worthless appendage in our own land.
You can still see this in both Turks (azery and Turkish) behavior towards us. They don't see any need to deal with us. Instead they both see the root of our actions in Russia and deal with it only.
And so we panic that Russia might sell us again.
And why would it not for right price?
If we cannot put our feet down on Russia's face when need be, why would Russia reflect our interests in any way?
Here is a guy(an idiot),who trumpets Russia's rise and power,and has created a blog to persuade his own people that the only way for Armenia to exist is as a part of Russia.
How can you exist as a part of somebody else?
Was there any Armenia in Soviet Union? 14 other nations were part of Russia then.
I don't think so. There were only bunch of Armenians living in territory that Russians agreed to let and dictated how to live.

Very well put. Here is the main issue in a nutshell the guy that does the blog is saying Armenians are genetically and culturally weak and inferior and that we are incapable of having and running an independent nation. Forget about the political views of pro Russia or EU or US. If there are people backing up this guy then what they are simply doing is agreeing with the concept I wrote above: and if anyone is agreeing with that concept than you have no Armenian spirit you have slave mentality and fear

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

For small countries to “survive” they should be under a protectorate. In our part of the world we have Iran, turkey, Russia as larger neighbors or we can pick US/EU.
Pick one, be honest with them, build a relationship in order to survive. You can have some friendly relationship with others but you will have to pick one to exist.
Unfortunately that is a reality there is no dancing around it. Whom will you trust and will be the lesser evil to the Armenian interest?

Azad Jan we have allready picked up that partner for past 200 years. It has not always worked out has it?
It is one thing to discuss geopolitical partnership but another to glorify a "partner" to a point of destroying your own identity, ambitions, prospective thinking and national conscience.
Mother Russia is mother for Russians only, but for us it is mother Armenia ( however dear, this word is as strange to some Armenians as saying "your's is mother Mars").
For over 1500 years we have people devoting themselfs to powerful rulers, like Bizanteens, then explaining to themselfs that it is for their people's good. But in the result from regular nation in it's time we have become just a handful with territory equal to some other nations doormats.
You cannot dogmatise your dependence and subservience to any other nation than your own. You cannot block and blind your mindset with any other power than your own (otherwise you can never own any power).
You probably remember how fiercely I debated against any idea for European Union as our savior. Now I will say the same for Russia too. That is because any thought of one entity or another being our savior or benefactor is Very Wrong.
A geopolitical partner can never be a savior and benefacor. As soon it sees that that's how you approach to the relation ( as a savior) then it will start behaving as your owner.
If you think like that you will always loose.
However much I have tried to suppress the concept that our blind devotion to Russia greatly contributed to inciting the great genocide in hands of Turks, because it could be used in anti Russian propaganda, is actually very true.
But in debth, it is not Russia's fault as much as is our's because instead of developing our true national goals and policies, we just put our selfs as Russia's disposable worthless appendage in our own land.
You can still see this in both Turks (azery and Turkish) behavior towards us. They don't see any need to deal with us. Instead they both see the root of our actions in Russia and deal with it only.
And so we panic that Russia might sell us again.
And why would it not for right price?
If we cannot put our feet down on Russia's face when need be, why would Russia reflect our interests in any way?
Here is a guy(an idiot),who trumpets Russia's rise and power,and has created a blog to persuade his own people that the only way for Armenia to exist is as a part of Russia.
How can you exist as a part of somebody else?
Was there any Armenia in Soviet Union? 14 other nations were part of Russia then.
I don't think so. There were only bunch of Armenians living in territory that Russians agreed to let and dictated how to live.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I am ok with that model. Now list one country only one country from this planet that has that model working for them.
A country with less than 20 million population that is not some primitive entity in Africa. I personally cannot think of one that is not under a protectorate influence.
Maybe some south American countries? The ones that live in the shadow of the Dollars and oil fluctuation without any natural enemies?

We are getting off topic and there is no need for our enemy to see our dirty laundry. Maybe we can move this to political discussion thread or something.

Just remember this, Russia needs us as much as we need them. We are a Wedge on Turkic expansionism. Without us the gates of Vienna will burn down and nukes will be pointed (NATO) on Iran and underbelly of Russia. Game over for them. Even the USA would not want to see a stronger Turkey. We are not, and can never be isolated country. We have many aces we can play against these superpowers if we had the right leaders. Do not underestimate Armenia.
We cannot sell our businesses and our countries economy to Russia or anyone else.

You and I don't even live in Armenia. our judgments are worth zip.

Well said armmuke.......Haykakan is not Armenian poster but I know what you mean brother. My next trip I will private message you so we can meet up.


I am glad what this forum has become since I signed in years ago when it was a Genocide forum. There is no turning back. There are also many posters now much more intelligent than I, just an aviator, am, and they, are, pro independent Armenia, one day, we pray, we fight, we will never surrender.
We are not Russefobia, we are pro Armenia.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

For that model to work, we will have to have few nuclear warheads, ignore most of the pressure of other larger countries and hope we will not be isolated like North Korea.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

why we pick sides ... We must strive to become independent as much as we can.

I am ok with that model. Now list one country only one country from this planet that has that model working for them.
A country with less than 20 million population that is not some primitive entity in Africa. I personally cannot think of one that is not under a protectorate influence.
Maybe some south American countries? The ones that live in the shadow of the Dollars and oil fluctuation without any natural enemies?

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

As long as there's an independent and sovereign Armenia, every Armenian who is Pro-something other than Armenia is a traitor in my eyes. Alliance is something, worshiping is something else.

If his name is "Armenian", then it makes me think if he's the same guy using the "Haykakan" account. Since both words have the same meaning. And both accounts act like they are getting paid by Russia to promote their interest.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

He has a strong personally and he is very opinionated like most of us Armenians. Doesn’t make his opinion crap. He as the tendancy to view conflicts in a larger geopolitical equations instead of the piddly logics why Russia is selling arms to the azeris as well.
Russia will do what serves Russia best. It is our job to find ways to shift the balance towards our interest. With all the larger neighbors including the US/EU which country/countries has a large control/influence of the media by Armenians?

We have more power geopolitically than most know or to pick any side.....why we pick sides. We know Russia is here to stay. No one says lets switch to US or Iran or Jamaica. We must strive to become independent as much as we can. unlike our leaders who bow down, I will not, we will not. We are no longer the Armenians of 1915. We are strong and getting stronger. We have a capable military that can destroy Azerbaijan. If we stagnate, like he proposes, we are doomed.

Again, why must we choose between this or that.....think about it. look at eyes of our soldiers that burjuin posts. look at courage, valor, and confidence. These are things pro whatever some self serving Armenians hate.

Long live independent Armenia. long live Artsakh.

Sure, no one is really independent in this world but we must loose that slave mentality or we be played again like doothoogh.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I challenge him (again) to come back and spew his crap here. He had certain followers too when I joined this forum. He might as well be Russian and had no constructive criticism.

He has a strong personally and he is very opinionated like most of us Armenians. Doesn’t make his opinion crap. He as the tendancy to view conflicts in a larger geopolitical equations instead of the piddly logics why Russia is selling arms to the azeris as well.
Russia will do what serves Russia best. It is our job to find ways to shift the balance towards our interest. With all the larger neighbors including the US/EU which country/countries has a large control/influence of the media by Armenians?