The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Pathetic.
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Russia Rejects Parallels Between South Ossetia, Karabakh

By Aza Babayan in Moscow

Russia on Thursday firmly rejected parallels between the conflicts in Nagorno-Karabakh and South Ossetia and Abkhazia that have been drawn since its controversial decision to recognize the independence of the two breakaway regions.

The move has left observers in Armenia and elsewhere in the region wondering whether Moscow would be prepared to similarly recognize Karabakh’s de facto secession from Azerbaijan.

“There are no parallels between the situation over South Ossetia and Abkhazia on the one side and the Nagorno-Karabakh settlement on the other,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said. “In the case of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, [Georgian President Mikheil] Saakashvili’s regime has in recent years consistently sought to undermine all negotiation formats, all settlement mechanisms that had been earlier agreed upon by all parties.”

Moscow claims that it had no choice but to recognize the two regions after Georgia attempted to win back South Ossetia and allegedly wipe out its population last month. Lavrov argued that, by contrast, the parties to the Karabakh dispute have been fully cooperating with a team of American, Russian and French mediators trying to broker a peaceful settlement.

“None of the parties is walking away from the mechanism formed under the auspices of the co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group,” he said. “That process is going on. Furthermore, within the framework of that process a serious body of agreed elements of the eventual settlement has been worked out. Work on the remaining several problems is continuing.”

Lavrov spoke at a joint news conference with his Armenian counterpart Eduard Nalbandian held after a meeting in Moscow of the foreign ministers of the six former Soviet republics making up the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). Nalbandian, who chaired the meeting, presented a joint statement on the Georgian crisis that was adopted by the ministers.

The statement called for a peaceful resolution of the conflict and endorsed a Russian-Georgian truce agreement brokered by French President Nicolas Sarkozy. The CSTO foreign ministers criticized Georgia’s ill-fated military assault on South Ossetia but stopped short of denouncing it as an act of aggression. They also said nothing about the Russian recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Russia included the word “aggression” in the initial version of the statement. It was not immediately clear if Armenia, which is assuming the CSTO’s rotating presidency, demanded its removal from the text.

“We are satisfied with the content of this statement,” said Lavrov. “It places the emphases correctly.”

From http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeni...3288558B4E.ASP

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Why pathetic, Federate? Please train yourself to look at these types of diplomatic statements as a diplomat and not a lay person. Sergei Lavrov is essentially stating that Moscow did not recognize Ossetia's and Abkhazia's independence - until - the other side decided to resort to violence. He went on to say that such a thing has not yet occurred in Nagorno Karabagh and, as a result, the two situations can't be compared. This makes perfect diplomatic sense because for over fifteen years, as much as it wanted to, Moscow did not attempt to recognize Ossetia's and Abkhazia's independence. Moscow resorted to harsh measures only when Tbilisi left it with no other option. What's more, Georgia coming close to joining NATO also compounded the problem for Moscow. So, Moscow had to act. Lavrov is correct, this situation cannot be compared to the situation in Nagorno Karabagh where Armenians there are clearly benefiting from the status quo and the Azeris are clearly behaving themselves, relatively speaking of course. In reality, Lavrov's stance can be indirectly taken as pro-Armenian because it enforces the favorable status quo in Nagorno Karabagh at the same time it warns Baku about attempting to solve the issue regarding Nagorno Karabagh militarily. Moreover, it's no secret that Moscow clearly wants to play both sides of the fence. Moscow needs Baku at least as much as it needs Yerevan, if not more. With the Nagorno Karabagh situation unresolved Moscow can have its way with both nations. Nevertheless, make no mistake about it, this situation, the current status quo, while not ideal, is beneficial for Armenia and Nagorno Karabagh.

And as you know, to his credit, Sargsyan more-or-less stated today that unless Moscow recognizes Nagorno Karabagh Yerevan has no interest in recognizing Ossetia and Abkhazia, and that Yerevan has no intentions on ruining its vital economic lifeline through Tbilisi either. Although I am not happy about Yerevan's decision, I, nonetheless, commend Sargsyan for his great candor, diplomacy and wisdom. Geopolitically speaking, his statements were quite Armeno-centric and did not seem to follow Moscow's lead. By recognizing Ossetia and Abkhazia Yerevan would have essentially cut-off its already strained ties with Tbilisi. Armenia currently imports a vast majority of its goods, as well as Russian energy, via Georgia. Until landlocked Armenia can find another route for its trade with Russia and beyond, Yerevan is sorely dependent on Tbilisi. Moscow needs to realize this, they need to take into better concideration our situation. Moreover, Yerevan recognizing Nagorno Karabagh at this stage would greatly aggravate the already volatile situation in the Caucasus. Simply put, the country has been slowly getting itself back on its feet, Armenia is 'not' ready for another disastrous war. Besides, what do we think an official recognition will get Nagorno Karabagh anyway? Everything has a time and place. Sadly, geopolitical factors today are not yet ripe for Nagorno Karabagh.

Pathetic.
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Russia Rejects Parallels Between South Ossetia, Karabakh

Russia on Thursday firmly rejected parallels between the conflicts in Nagorno-Karabakh and South Ossetia and Abkhazia that have been drawn since its controversial decision to recognize the independence of the two breakaway regions. The move has left observers in Armenia and elsewhere in the region wondering whether Moscow would be prepared to similarly recognize Karabakh’s de facto secession from Azerbaijan.

“There are no parallels between the situation over South Ossetia and Abkhazia on the one side and the Nagorno-Karabakh settlement on the other,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said. “In the case of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, [Georgian President Mikheil] Saakashvili’s regime has in recent years consistently sought to undermine all negotiation formats, all settlement mechanisms that had been earlier agreed upon by all parties.”

Moscow claims that it had no choice but to recognize the two regions after Georgia attempted to win back South Ossetia and allegedly wipe out its population last month. Lavrov argued that, by contrast, the parties to the Karabakh dispute have been fully cooperating with a team of American, Russian and French mediators trying to broker a peaceful settlement.

“None of the parties is walking away from the mechanism formed under the auspices of the co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group,” he said. “That process is going on. Furthermore, within the framework of that process a serious body of agreed elements of the eventual settlement has been worked out. Work on the remaining several problems is continuing.”

Lavrov spoke at a joint news conference with his Armenian counterpart Eduard Nalbandian held after a meeting in Moscow of the foreign ministers of the six former Soviet republics making up the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). Nalbandian, who chaired the meeting, presented a joint statement on the Georgian crisis that was adopted by the ministers.

The statement called for a peaceful resolution of the conflict and endorsed a Russian-Georgian truce agreement brokered by French President Nicolas Sarkozy. The CSTO foreign ministers criticized Georgia’s ill-fated military assault on South Ossetia but stopped short of denouncing it as an act of aggression. They also said nothing about the Russian recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Russia included the word “aggression” in the initial version of the statement. It was not immediately clear if Armenia, which is assuming the CSTO’s rotating presidency, demanded its removal from the text.

“We are satisfied with the content of this statement,” said Lavrov. “It places the emphases correctly.”

From http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeni...3288558B4E.ASP

Armenia Rules Out Abkhazia, South Ossetia Recognition

President Serzh Sarkisian has made clear that Armenia will not formally recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states any time soon, while reiterating his support for their residents’ right to self-determination. In a wide-ranging foreign policy speech made public late Wednesday, he also indicated that Armenia will continue to seek simultaneously good relations with Russia, the West and other major regional players after the devastating war in neighboring Georgia. He said the Russian-Georgian conflict underlined the need for his landlocked country to have “alternative transit routes” for external commerce running through Iran and Turkey.

“Today one is wodenring from time to time why Armenia is not recognizing the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia,” Sarkisian said, speaking at an annual meeting of Armenian ambassadors abroad. “The answer is simple: for the same reason that it did not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Having the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, Armenia can not recognize another entity in the same situation as long as it has not recognized the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.”

The realization of a nation’s right to self-determination “takes times” and requires the understanding of “all interested parties,” explained Sarkisian. That is why Armenia will keep trying to “convince” Azerbaijan to come to terms with the loss of Karabakh, he said.

Russia unilaterally recognized the two breakaway regions after crushing Georgian in a brief war over South Ossetia and seems to be pressing Armenia and its other allies to follow suit. The issue will be on the agenda of Friday’s meeting in Moscow of presidents of Russia, Armenia and four other ex-Soviet states aligned in the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). President Dmitry Medvedev already discussed it with Sarkisian at his summer retreat in the Black Sea city of Sochi on Tuesday.

With more than 70 percent of Armenia’s foreign trade carried out through Georgian territory, antagonizing Georgia would prove disastrous for a country already blockaded by Azerbaijan and Turkey. The Armenian economy has already been affected by major disruptions in rail and ferry traffic caused by the Russian-Georgian war. The war has also called into question continued vital supplies of Russian natural gas to Armenia through a pipeline passing via Georgia.

“Naturally, we are interested in a rapid and peaceful resolution of Georgia’s problems and the establishment of lasting peace there,” Sarkisian said. He at the same time again criticized Tbilisi for attempting settle the South Ossetian conflict by force and said the de facto secession of this and other territories does set a precedent for the settlement of the Karabakh conflict.

“Let them repeat that Kosovo is not a precedent, and some may say that Abkhazia and South Ossetia are not precedents either,” he said. “But the fact is that exceptions not considered precedents are beginning to set a pattern for the resolution of such conflicts.”

Sarkisian further announced that Armenia is poised to end its heavy dependence on Russia for natural gas with the impending launch of a gas pipeline from Iran. “Thank God, the gas pipeline has already been built, and we can receive gas from the Islamic Republic of Iran as early as tomorrow,” he said. “Work on enhancing the capacity of that pipeline will likely end in late October or early November, and we will be able to import from 2 to 2.5 billion cubic meters of [Iranian] gas each year. That is, as much as we import now [from Russia.]”

Sarkisian went on to speak of his “political expectations” from Turkish President Abdullah Gul’s upcoming visit to Yerevan and the broader thaw in Turkish-Armenian relations. “Without forgetting the past, we should look to the future, form an agenda of mutual interest and start contacts without preconditions,” he said.

The Armenian leader specifically stressed the importance of reopening the Turkish-Armenian border, telling his top diplomats to help generate greater international pressure for the relaunch of the Gyumri-Kars rail link. “Arm yourselves with maps, statistical data and arguments: we must make sure everyone realizes that these several kilometers of railway can radically change the whole picture of regional partnership.”

Sarkisian further stated that he intends to “deepen and strengthen” Armenia’s “friendly partnership” with the United States as well as other Western powers and structures. He said he will be personally overseeing his government’s implementation of a plan of actions stemming from Armenia’s inclusion in the European Union’s European Neighborhood Policy program.

And he confirmed that a planned NATO-led military exercise in Armenia will go ahead later this month despite the latest upsurge in Russia-West tensions over Georgia. Yerevan will “consistently” take other actions stemming from its Individual Partnership Action Plan (IPAP), he said. Those include Armenian participation in the NATO-led peace-keeping missions in Kosovo and possibly Afghanistan.

Sarkisian and his predecessor Robert Kocharian have repeatedly stated that despite growing security ties with the West, Armenia will not seek membership in NATO in the foreseeable future and that the military alliance with Russia remains the bedrock of its defense doctrine. Sarkisian reaffirmed this “complementary” policy in his speech.

“We will by all means develop and expand our strategic allied relations with Russia, which are based on the centuries-old friendship of our peoples,” he said.

Source: http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeni...741767F725.ASP

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Moreover, it's no secret that Moscow clearly wants to play both sides of the fence. Moscow needs Baku at least as much as it needs Yerevan, if not more. With the Nagorno Karabagh situation unresolved Moscow can have its way with both nations. Nevertheless, make no mistake about it, this situation, the current status quo, while not ideal, is beneficial to Armenia and Nagorno Karabagh.

See this is why i'm a little frustrated and called it pathetic. I understood Lavrov's interesting choice of words but it just frustrates me that after all we give to the Russians, I was expecting a little less ambiguity and a little more public support on a case that represents life or death for our country. And an excuse like we're not recognizing Abkhazia and South Ossetia so why should they support us is unacceptable because the people behind the chessboard in Russia surely know that our border with Georgia is vital for our survival. Furthermore, Baku aggressively was pro-Georgia during the conflict and even allowed for the travel of ethnic Georgians from Azerbaboonjan to assist the Gruzinskies in the conflict. I was just expecting a little more I guess.

We all know that when the time is right and if one day Baku wakes up from their idiotic policies of pro-West or pro-Nato and starts using its black gold with Russia, then our importance will be reduced... at least while comparing ourselves with Azerbaboons.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

See this is why i'm a little frustrated and called it pathetic. I understood Lavrov's interesting choice of words but it just frustrates me that after all we give to the Russians, I was expecting a little less ambiguity and a little more public support on a case that represents life or death for our country.

I agree with you, Federate. But in politics you can't get frustrated or emotional. I know that this is especially hard for us Armenians because of our extremely difficult, almost hopeless, situation in the very volatile Caucasus region. I think Moscow's irrational expectations from Yerevan was the main reason why Sargsyan seemed quite irritated with Moscow yesterday. At the end of the day, however, this is all politics, a nasty game of chess. And as we know, in politics there are no friends, there are no enemies, there are just interests.

And an excuse like we're not recognizing Abkhazia and South Ossetia so why should they support us is unacceptable because the people behind the chessboard in Russia surely know that our border with Georgia is vital for our survival.

I think that is why in his meeting with Sargsyan several days ago Medvedev made statements about enhancing Armenia's economy and finding alternative trade routes. I think that the Turkish Caucasus Pact proposal is a part of Moscow's regional agenda as well.

Furthermore, Baku aggressively was pro-Georgia during the conflict and even allowed for the travel of ethnic Georgians from Azerbaboonjan to assist the Gruzinskies in the conflict.

Based on what I read recently, Baku actually made an active effort to 'stop' Azeris from going to Georgia to help their fight against Russia. For good reason, they smelled disaster. What's more, Baku has been curiously dead silent about the whole ordeal in the region. Also, let's not forget that their beloved BTC pipeline is still down.

I was just expecting a little more I guess.

Why? Because Russia needs us? Well, we need them more than they need us and they know it. And when you are overly confident of your self-worth you sometimes get selfish, or careless. And in my opinion, this is exactly how Moscow sometimes acts in its dealing with Yerevan. They know Yerevan is greatly dependent on it, they know Yerevan is not going anywhere, so they are 'expecting' things from us. That is why I think Sargsyan seemed a bit annoyed with them. Nevertheless, this strongly underscores our need to carryout more political activism in Russia.

We all know that when the time is right and if one day Baku wakes up from their idiotic policies of pro-West or pro-Nato and starts using its black gold with Russia, then our importance will be reduced... at least while comparing ourselves with Azerbaboons.

No, I don't think so. Russia is already having its way with Baku. Don't you think that Moscow could have made a deal with Baku a long time ago? Or even now? Why aren't Russian officials approaching Baku with a proposal to give them Nagorno Karabagh with the condition that it enters Russia's political/economic orbit? In the big picture, on the geopolitical chessboard, Moscow needs an Armenia in the region as a check-valve against a potential Islamic or Turkic resurgence. Since it is already more-or-less getting its way with Baku, why sacrifice a strategic asset like Armenia? Realistically, a worst case scenario would be Moscow looking to incorporate Armenia into its national federation.

Anyway, I just hope something good comes out of all this.

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I think that is why in his meeting with Sargsyan several days ago Medvedev made statements about enhancing Armenia's economy and finding alternative trade routes. I think that the Turkish Caucasus Pact proposal is a part of Moscow's regional agenda as well.

Good thing you brought this up, it's another worriesome point for me. We will be basically putting our main source of income within the hands of the enemy because Turkey is the cheapest and quickest route to Europe. Our dependence of the Georgian border will be largely changed to dependence of the Turkish border... am I the only one worried about this?

Based on what I read recently, Baku actually made an active effort to 'stop' Azeris from going to Georgia to help their fight against Russia. For good reason, they smelled disaster. What's more, Baku has been curiously dead silent about the whole ordeal in the region. Also, let's not forget that their beloved BTC pipeline is still down.

During the start, this was not the case but I guess they eventually realized their idiocies. Even at that, they were certainly not as pro-Moscow or as neutral as we were.

Why? Because Russia needs us? Well, we need them more than they need us and they know it. And when you are overly confident of your self-worth you sometimes get selfish, or careless. And in my opinion, this is exactly how Moscow sometimes acts in its dealing with Yerevan. They know Yerevan is greatly dependent on it, they know Yerevan is not going anywhere, so they are 'expecting' things from us. That is why I think Sargsyan seemed a bit annoyed with them. Nevertheless, this strongly underscores our need to carryout more political activism in Russia.

Essentially why I was irritated as well...

No, I don't think so. Russia is already having its way with Baku. Don't you think that Moscow could have made a deal with Baku a long time ago? Or even now? Why aren't Russian officials approaching Baku with a proposal to give them Nagorno Karabagh with the condition that it enters Russia's political/economic orbit? In the big picture, on the geopolitical chessboard, Moscow needs an Armenia in the region as a check-valve against a potential Islamic or Turkic resurgence. Since it is already more-or-less getting its way with Baku, why sacrifice a strategic asset like Armenia? Realistically, a worst case scenario would be Moscow looking to incorporate Armenia into its national federation.

Anyway, I just hope something good comes out of all this.

Yeah, good point on the Turkic resurgence. We keep them in check. But still, I believe that the day the baboons wake up and realize that USA is half a world away and start courting Russia is when our problems will get a little worse.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Cheney's trip to Baku “failed”

Vice President of the USA xxxx Cheney completed his trip to the South Caucasus targeted at strengthening Washington's positions in the struggle for Caspian energy resources. Kommersant Daily qualifies the outcome of Baku talks as “failure.” The daily accounts that President of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev did not offer to the US guest a warm reception, hinting that Baku was not intending to support the idea of retracting energy carriers' flows bypassing Russia.

The daily details: “xxxx Cheney's visit to Azerbaijan proved utterly unsuccessful for Washington. The high-ranking guest, who was visiting Baku for the first time, was not met by either President Ilham Aliyev or even Prime Minister Artur Rasizade. Instead, the Vice President was welcomed by First Deputy Prime Minister Yagub Eyyubov and Foreign Minister Elmar Mamedyarov. What about Ilham Aliyev, he was not in a hurry to receive Mr. Cheney. So the latter first headed to a meeting with President of BP Azerbaijan Company and top management of Chevron's Azerbaijan subsidiary, proceeding then to the US embassy to Baku to converse with Ambassador Ann E. Derse. To the Azerbaijan President's residence xxxx Cheney made it toward evening.” As sources in the President's administration commented to Kommersant, the talks were rather difficult, although xxxx Cheney and Ilham Aliyev have had confidential relations from the times when Mr. Cheney used to be employed by Halliburton and Mr. Aliyev was Vice President of state-run oil company SOCAR. The sides conferred on the war in Georgia and prospects of Nabucco gas pipeline construction.

According to Kommersant's information, “xxxx Cheney informed Ilham Aliyev that the USA were going to firmly support their allies in the region and intended to further extend the trans-Caspian gas pipeline circumventing Russia. Ilham Aliyev, however, hinted that, despite his high esteem of relations with Washington, he was not going to quarrel with Moscow. It essentially meant that, in the current situation, Baku decided to wait and see rather than accelerate realizaiton of Nabucco.” Kommersant sources in President's administration accounted that xxxx Cheney was highly irritated with the talks' outcome — he even refused to attend a ceremonial supper given in his honor.

Kommersant cites sources in the State Chancellery of Georgia who said that closed negotiations between Mikhail Saakashvili and xxxx Cheney in Tbilisi also had not gone smoothly. The sides mainly discussed security of existing pipelines laid through the Georgian territory round Russia, and the Nabucco pipeline project. xxxx Cheney made it clear that the USA were ready to maintain security of these pipelines, however, by merely political means, so Georgia would not receive US military aid at the moment.

Source: http://www.regnum.ru/english/1050782.html

[Armanen]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Armenian, it seems Abrahamyan doesn't agree with your theory that the "thaw" in Armenian-turkish relations are part of a Moscow initiative, and suspects it to be a malevolent act to further spread pan turkism. What do you make of his assumption that open borders would cause Armenia to be dependent on turkey? I for one do not want to borders open, at best just a few open roads or the Gyumri-Kars railway functioning. The worst thing that could happen is for cheap turkish goods to flood the Armenian market and cause Armenian manufacturers to go out of business.


turkey seeks to destroy or neutralize Armenian factor

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ One of the goals of the Turkish state is to destroy or, at least, neutralize the Armenian factor in the form of Armenia, Nagorno Karabakh and Samtskhe-Javakheti, which hamper the expansion of Turkish influence throughout the Caucasus, an Armenian expert said.

“For Russia, the Armenian factor acts as restraint for the West and is an important bastion to neutralize the Turkish threat. Moreover, Armenia’s growing influence in the Middle East can speed up the process of extruding anti-Russian forces,” said Eduard Abrahamyan, expert at Mitq analytical center.

“Knowing this, Ankara will act as “well-wisher” and will possibly open the border while Armenia will unconsciously fall into dependence from Turkish communications. Thus, Turkey will not only gain control over Armenia but will also inflict a defeat on Moscow,” he said.

http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=26929&page=1

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Good thing you brought this up, it's another worriesome point for me. We will be basically putting our main source of income within the hands of the enemy because Turkey is the cheapest and quickest route to Europe. Our dependence of the Georgian border will be largely changed to dependence of the Turkish border... am I the only one worried about this?

For many years I have been warning about open borders with Turkey. Once the border opens and you have fat businessmen in Yerevan making money via Turkey, our longterm national interests will definitely suffer as a result. There is a great risk that Armenia can become dangerously dependent on Ankara for its economic progress.

Yeah, good point on the Turkic resurgence. We keep them in check. But still, I believe that the day the baboons wake up and realize that USA is half a world away and start courting Russia is when our problems will get a little worse.

If Moscow warms to Baku, and that's a big if, the worst Armenians can expect is Yerevan giving up the territories taken outside of Nagorno Karabagh. I would not worry too much about Artsakh. Artsakh has been a done deal for many years.

Armenian, it seems Abrahamyan doesn't agree with your theory that the "thaw" in Armenian-turkish relations are part of a Moscow initiative, and suspects it to be a malevolent act to further spread pan turkism. What do you make of his assumption that open borders would cause Armenia to be dependent on turkey? I for one do not want to borders open, at best just a few open roads or the Gyumri-Kars railway functioning. The worst thing that could happen is for cheap turkish goods to flood the Armenian market and cause Armenian manufacturers to go out of business.

I strongly disagree with this Abrahamyan. Perhaps he is blind but the signs that Moscow is fully behind (or actively supporting) the warming of relations between Yerevan and Ankara are quite clear. Let me remind you again that Sargsyan first reached his hand out to Ankara right after his meetings with Medvedev and during a public speech while in Moscow. Moreover, Turkey proposed the Caucasus Pact in the immediate aftermath of the war in Georgia, a war during which Ankara indirectly supported Russia's actions. Moreover, Turkish nationalists and Azeris are signaling their strong displeasure about this proposal. Moreover, Moscow has been clearly signaling that it is in favor of the proposal and is now in fact all for the opening of the Armenian-Turkey border - this after years of remaining silent about it. The fact of the matter is, Moscow and Turkey want to continue their very lucrative trade. Due to the war in Georgia and due to the high tensions in the Black Sea region, they have found that Armenia would be a good/logical alternative route for this trade. This is a longterm plan, or an alternative plan, for the two capitols. Eventually Azerbaijan would be dragged into this as well. Nonetheless, they are currently trying to prepare the playing field in Armenia. This is not something that will happen overnight, this will take some time to manifest itself. Trust me, nothing of this significance could have occurred in Yerevan without Moscow being behind it.

What does all this mean for Armenia, I don't know. These are those types of situations where there is not much a small, dependent, landlocked and impoverished nation can do but to hope and pray.

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

If Moscow warms to Baku, and that's a big if, the worst Armenians can expect is Yerevan giving up the territories taken outside of Nagorno Karabagh. I would not worry too much about Artsakh. Artsakh has been a done deal for many years.

It has slowly begun? http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29961

Giving up territories outside the former NKAO would prove the end of NKR. Let's hope nothing ridiculous like that ever happens.

[North Pole]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

It has slowly begun? http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29961

Giving up territories outside the former NKAO would prove the end of NKR. Let's hope nothing ridiculous like that ever happens.

I understand why D*ck Cheney didn't want to send his little helpers to the Caucasus this time - they didn't work out the deals....

So now he decided to show up himself. And he also decided play a role of a boss as it seems....

Well, this type of behavior just shows how ignorant the Yankistani leaders are.

All American idiot Cheney must understand that Azerbaijan’s President Aliyev doesn't have mentality of a former New York lawyer Georgia's Saakashvilli, and should dig for oil/freedom somewhere in his own neighborhood.

D*ck Cheney, you maybe a Big D*ck in your america but in Eurasia you are NOTHING, you little b*tch.


Why was Cheney aide in Georgia before the conflict?
Quote:

The LA Times reports that Joseph R. Wood, Vice President Cheney’s deputy assistant for national security affairs, “was in Georgia shortly before the war began.” James Gerstenzang wonders what Wood was doing there. Sergei Markov — a senior political scientist who is close to Vladimir Putin — claimed recently that the war was “part of a plot by Cheney” to help John McCain. But media reports indicate that a “parade” of U.S. officials, including Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, had warned Georgia President Mikheil Saakashvili not to instigate the conflict with Russia.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/26/why-was-cheney-aide-in-georgia-before-the-conflict