The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

The secret to a peaceful Eurasia in a post democratic, post capitalistic world is the revival of a new Byzantium headed by Moscow. As the Soviet Union fell apart some twenty years ago policy makers in the West feared the potential union of Christian Orthodox states into one political entity. This fear of theirs never materialized, although the potential has always been there. Why Orthodoxy? Besides its ethical/cultural/spiritual advantages in guiding the populace in a tumultuous post Soviet world, the revival of Orthodoxy can also provide a cultural/political commonality amongst regional nations that share an Orthodox heritage. We must realize that every nation, without exception, needs a political ideology to grow and prosper. Just within the last century, we saw Capitalism fail, we saw Democracy fail, we saw Theocracy fail, we saw Communism fail and, although endued with great potential, we saw how National Socialism was forced to fail. In the absence of major political movements today and with the onset of a post democratic western world, Christian Orthodoxy, perhaps in union with a new form of National Socialism, can play a major role in unifying a large segment of Eurasia's population under one ideological, political, military, economic and spiritual banner. I long to see a union of nations from Serbia to Armenia, from Belarus to the eastern reaches of Russia - under Christian Orthodox and National Socialist rule.

Armenian

******************************

With Orthodoxy’s Revival in Russia, Religious Media Also Rise

By the time of the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, there were nearly 600 newspapers and magazines throughout Russia devoted to Orthodox subjects. They were all shut down by the Soviet regime by 1918. Today, in a country that was officially atheist about two decades ago, there are again hundreds of newspapers, magazines and newsletters covering the world’s largest Orthodox church. There are about 3,500 Russian Orthodox Web sites, and some priests are even blogging. The Russian Orthodox media, like the church itself, have not always fallen into step with the Kremlin line. The Moscow Patriarchate, its official newspaper and most Orthodox media have addressed the war with Georgia over the breakaway region of South Ossetia as a tragic misunderstanding between two countries that share an Orthodox Christian heritage.

After 70 years of state-imposed atheism and 20 years that have run the gamut from glasnost to post-Soviet chaos to a revival of Russian pride, Russians have increasingly embraced their Orthodox roots. When Sergei Chapnin, editor of the Moscow Patriarchate’s official newspaper, Tserkovny Vesnik, organized the first Russian Orthodox media festival in 2004, a government bureaucrat called to inquire about the event. “I could tell he thought we would have 50 people or so attending,” Mr. Chapnin said about the first festival, which brought together 400 journalists. “I said there are about 500 publications with up to 10,000 journalists connected to them. There was silence at the end of the line.” This month, after the death of Patriarch Aleksy II, the head of the church, nearly an entire day of live television coverage was devoted to the funeral. The days before and after were dedicated to documentaries about Aleksy II’s life and talk shows discussing his death.

Vladimir Legoyda, the editor of Foma, the most influential of the Orthodox magazines, said that Kommersant, a business newspaper, inundated him with phone calls after the patriarch’s death. “That they came to us and are paying very active attention to this theme, this is a change,” he said. But he adds: “I want to be a realist. I understand that society doesn’t change so easily and maybe so quickly.” The revival of Orthodoxy is reflected both as a trend in the secular media and in a stable of publications that have appeared to discuss religious faith both with newly devout believers and those who are still finding their way in the church. Kommersant was the journalistic training ground for Yulia Danilova, editor in chief of Neskuchny Sad, another Orthodox magazine. It has editorial offices in a church located on the grounds of Hospital No. 1 in Moscow and is known for its charity work. A colleague from Kommersant who works with her at the magazine is an ordained Russian Orthodox deacon. Another editor used to work for Moskovsky Komsomolets, a Soviet newspaper turned tabloid, and secular magazines, but moved to Neskuchny Sad when those publications began to conflict with her deepening religious faith.

Foma, Mr. Legoyda’s magazine, has a staff of about 30 and a monthly budget of over $100,000 for all of its expenses and projects, which include a Web site and radio program. It is financed mostly by sponsors, with some money coming from advertising and subscriptions. Foma is the most successful Orthodox magazine, with a print run of 30,000, but it is small compared with secular publications. Mr. Chapnin said Tserkovny Vesnik, whose name means The Church Herald, had a print run of about 20,000, the same as Neskuchny Sad’s in November. Successful diocesan publications might print about 10,000 copies, while others in the provinces average about 3,000. While the magazines are most easily found in churches and religious literature stores, Foma can be found on many newsstands, next to secular papers. The Orthodox magazines are supported by advertising, which is weighted toward offers of icons and religious literature. The financial crisis is taking its toll on Orthodox publications, requiring some belt-tightening.

Mr. Legoyda is also the chairman of the department of international journalism at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, a training ground for future diplomats. He began going to church as a student in Moscow in the early 1990s. Later, as an exchange student in California, he met punk rockers turned Orthodox monks and helped them put out a magazine called Death to the World that used the punk aesthetic to talk about Orthodox themes. Back in Russia, Mr. Legoyda started to reach out to young people outside the usual church context. He has published a collection of his articles in a book titled “Do Jeans Stand in the Way of Salvation?” As Orthodoxy has become more ingrained in Russia, Mr. Legoyda said Foma had addressed different levels of religious skepticism. “We were never didactic,” he said. “We always said that we have doubts too. But if before someone might have said they doubt the existence of God, now they don’t. Instead they wonder if they should go to church.”

The popularity of Orthodoxy has created new problems. “Today a person easily calls himself Orthodox but doesn’t change his life,” he said. “Orthodoxy, as any religion, means changing your life.” That has especially become an issue in the coverage of celebrities, both in the Orthodox and secular media. That has prompted debates about the dangers of “Orthodox glossies” and “Orthodox glamour” and the absurd juxtapositions that often arise when secular magazines touch on Orthodoxy. Foma often features interviews with celebrities who now speak openly about how important religious faith is in their lives. Ms. Danilova, the editor of Neskuchny Sad, says she worries that glossy Orthodox magazines risk reducing religion to an attractive lifestyle. “There is a danger that people will organize a very nice Orthodox lifestyle and stop at that,” she said. “Bake the right pies, have the right braid like in the old days. But this is avoiding the problems of contemporary life.”

Orthodoxy turns up in some of the most unexpected places. A magazine cover hanging on the wall of Nikolai Uskov, editor of the Russian edition of GQ magazine, has an elaborate, medieval-looking certificate of honor from Patriarch Aleksy II, given to him for his work as editor of the Catholic section of the Orthodox Encyclopedia. It is surrounded by GQ covers featuring Jennifer Aniston and Hugh Jackman. Mr. Uskov was a scholar specializing in the history of Christianity and monasticism in early medieval Western Europe before he switched gears and became editor of GQ. But even a magazine editor in Russia could not escape Orthodoxy, he said, because it had been embraced by the elite. “The church has become part of public ritual,” he said. “Glamorous people must believe, go to church, have icons and go on pilgrimages to places like Optina Pustyn and Valaam and tell everyone about this,” he said, referring to two famous Russian Orthodox monasteries.

But Orthodox magazines feature articles that will never be found in GQ. “Our No. 1 subject is veneration of the ‘New Martyrs,’ ” Mr. Legoyda said, referring to victims of Bolshevik and Stalinist terror who died for their Orthodox faith and were canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church in 2000. “Just as in the first three centuries of Christianity, people in this country, in Soviet times, were martyred for Christ, except many more were martyred here.” Foma writes about the martyrs in every issue. “This is our sacred treasure,” Mr. Legoyda said.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/25/bu...html?ref=world

[Muhaha]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Where did I say we should lapdogs, the one thing I want is a free and strong Armenia and we can't to that with the help of the West.

"Armenian" said that Moscow should head a new Byzantium. I asked why would Armenia submit itself to Russian rule. You then said "Why not", submitting yourself to someone else's rule is called being their lapdop.

[Muhaha]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

The secret to a peaceful Eurasia in a post democratic, post capitalistic world is the revival of a new Byzantium headed by Moscow. As the Soviet Union fell apart some twenty years ago policy makers in the West feared the potential union of Christian Orthodox states into one political entity. This fear of theirs never materialized, although the potential has always been there. Why Orthodoxy? Besides its ethical/cultural/spiritual advantages in guiding the populace in a tumultuous post Soviet world, the revival of Orthodoxy can also provide a cultural/political commonality amongst regional nations that share an Orthodox heritage. We must realize that every nation, without exception, needs a political ideology to grow and prosper. Just within the last century, we saw Capitalism fail, we saw Democracy fail, we saw Theocracy fail, we saw Communism fail and, although endued with great potential, we saw how National Socialism was forced to fail. In the absence of major political movements today and with the onset of a post democratic western world, Christian Orthodoxy, perhaps in union with a new form of National Socialism, can play a major role in unifying a large segment of Eurasia's population under one ideological, political, military, economic and spiritual banner. I long to see a union of nations from Serbia to Armenia, from Belarus to the eastern reaches of Russia - under Christian Orthodox and National Socialist rule.

Armenian

******************************

With Orthodoxy’s Revival in Russia, Religious Media Also Rise

By the time of the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, there were nearly 600 newspapers and magazines throughout Russia devoted to Orthodox subjects. They were all shut down by the Soviet regime by 1918. Today, in a country that was officially atheist about two decades ago, there are again hundreds of newspapers, magazines and newsletters covering the world’s largest Orthodox church. There are about 3,500 Russian Orthodox Web sites, and some priests are even blogging. The Russian Orthodox media, like the church itself, have not always fallen into step with the Kremlin line. The Moscow Patriarchate, its official newspaper and most Orthodox media have addressed the war with Georgia over the breakaway region of South Ossetia as a tragic misunderstanding between two countries that share an Orthodox Christian heritage.

After 70 years of state-imposed atheism and 20 years that have run the gamut from glasnost to post-Soviet chaos to a revival of Russian pride, Russians have increasingly embraced their Orthodox roots. When Sergei Chapnin, editor of the Moscow Patriarchate’s official newspaper, Tserkovny Vesnik, organized the first Russian Orthodox media festival in 2004, a government bureaucrat called to inquire about the event. “I could tell he thought we would have 50 people or so attending,” Mr. Chapnin said about the first festival, which brought together 400 journalists. “I said there are about 500 publications with up to 10,000 journalists connected to them. There was silence at the end of the line.” This month, after the death of Patriarch Aleksy II, the head of the church, nearly an entire day of live television coverage was devoted to the funeral. The days before and after were dedicated to documentaries about Aleksy II’s life and talk shows discussing his death.

Vladimir Legoyda, the editor of Foma, the most influential of the Orthodox magazines, said that Kommersant, a business newspaper, inundated him with phone calls after the patriarch’s death. “That they came to us and are paying very active attention to this theme, this is a change,” he said. But he adds: “I want to be a realist. I understand that society doesn’t change so easily and maybe so quickly.” The revival of Orthodoxy is reflected both as a trend in the secular media and in a stable of publications that have appeared to discuss religious faith both with newly devout believers and those who are still finding their way in the church. Kommersant was the journalistic training ground for Yulia Danilova, editor in chief of Neskuchny Sad, another Orthodox magazine. It has editorial offices in a church located on the grounds of Hospital No. 1 in Moscow and is known for its charity work. A colleague from Kommersant who works with her at the magazine is an ordained Russian Orthodox deacon. Another editor used to work for Moskovsky Komsomolets, a Soviet newspaper turned tabloid, and secular magazines, but moved to Neskuchny Sad when those publications began to conflict with her deepening religious faith.

Foma, Mr. Legoyda’s magazine, has a staff of about 30 and a monthly budget of over $100,000 for all of its expenses and projects, which include a Web site and radio program. It is financed mostly by sponsors, with some money coming from advertising and subscriptions. Foma is the most successful Orthodox magazine, with a print run of 30,000, but it is small compared with secular publications. Mr. Chapnin said Tserkovny Vesnik, whose name means The Church Herald, had a print run of about 20,000, the same as Neskuchny Sad’s in November. Successful diocesan publications might print about 10,000 copies, while others in the provinces average about 3,000. While the magazines are most easily found in churches and religious literature stores, Foma can be found on many newsstands, next to secular papers. The Orthodox magazines are supported by advertising, which is weighted toward offers of icons and religious literature. The financial crisis is taking its toll on Orthodox publications, requiring some belt-tightening.

Mr. Legoyda is also the chairman of the department of international journalism at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, a training ground for future diplomats. He began going to church as a student in Moscow in the early 1990s. Later, as an exchange student in California, he met punk rockers turned Orthodox monks and helped them put out a magazine called Death to the World that used the punk aesthetic to talk about Orthodox themes. Back in Russia, Mr. Legoyda started to reach out to young people outside the usual church context. He has published a collection of his articles in a book titled “Do Jeans Stand in the Way of Salvation?” As Orthodoxy has become more ingrained in Russia, Mr. Legoyda said Foma had addressed different levels of religious skepticism. “We were never didactic,” he said. “We always said that we have doubts too. But if before someone might have said they doubt the existence of God, now they don’t. Instead they wonder if they should go to church.”

The popularity of Orthodoxy has created new problems. “Today a person easily calls himself Orthodox but doesn’t change his life,” he said. “Orthodoxy, as any religion, means changing your life.” That has especially become an issue in the coverage of celebrities, both in the Orthodox and secular media. That has prompted debates about the dangers of “Orthodox glossies” and “Orthodox glamour” and the absurd juxtapositions that often arise when secular magazines touch on Orthodoxy. Foma often features interviews with celebrities who now speak openly about how important religious faith is in their lives. Ms. Danilova, the editor of Neskuchny Sad, says she worries that glossy Orthodox magazines risk reducing religion to an attractive lifestyle. “There is a danger that people will organize a very nice Orthodox lifestyle and stop at that,” she said. “Bake the right pies, have the right braid like in the old days. But this is avoiding the problems of contemporary life.”

Orthodoxy turns up in some of the most unexpected places. A magazine cover hanging on the wall of Nikolai Uskov, editor of the Russian edition of GQ magazine, has an elaborate, medieval-looking certificate of honor from Patriarch Aleksy II, given to him for his work as editor of the Catholic section of the Orthodox Encyclopedia. It is surrounded by GQ covers featuring Jennifer Aniston and Hugh Jackman. Mr. Uskov was a scholar specializing in the history of Christianity and monasticism in early medieval Western Europe before he switched gears and became editor of GQ. But even a magazine editor in Russia could not escape Orthodoxy, he said, because it had been embraced by the elite. “The church has become part of public ritual,” he said. “Glamorous people must believe, go to church, have icons and go on pilgrimages to places like Optina Pustyn and Valaam and tell everyone about this,” he said, referring to two famous Russian Orthodox monasteries.

But Orthodox magazines feature articles that will never be found in GQ. “Our No. 1 subject is veneration of the ‘New Martyrs,’ ” Mr. Legoyda said, referring to victims of Bolshevik and Stalinist terror who died for their Orthodox faith and were canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church in 2000. “Just as in the first three centuries of Christianity, people in this country, in Soviet times, were martyred for Christ, except many more were martyred here.” Foma writes about the martyrs in every issue. “This is our sacred treasure,” Mr. Legoyda said.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/25/bu...html?ref=world

1. How have Capitalism and Democracy failed?

2. Why would anyone actually advocate National Socialism?

3. Why should Armenia submit itself to anything headed by Moscow? Just because you don't like the West, it's no excuse to treat Russia like it's anything better.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Why should Armenia submit itself to anything headed by Moscow?

When asked well thought out questions in a polite manner I normally take time to answer them. However, I have no urge to entertain stupid/shallow questions coming from a questionable individual... Nonetheless, answers to your questions are found in this thread. So, if interested, make time and fully read all the materials I have posted within these 200 pages; it will more than answer your questions.

[Muhaha]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

When asked well throughout questions in a polite manner I normally take time to answer them. I have no urge to entertain stupid/shallow questions coming from a questionable individual... Nonetheless, answers to your questions are found in this thread. So, if interested, make time and fully read all the materials I have posted within these 200 pages; it will more than answer your questions.

1. How am I questionable?

2. I don't know if you've noticed, but most of the material in this thread is slightly biased so it's useless to go looking for answers in it. That's why I asked you directly. But the truth is Capitalism and Democracy haven't failed, National Socialism is stupid, and Armenia submitting itself to Moscow rule and pretending Russia is some kind of friend is retarded.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Start with the following.

The Necessity Of Armenia's Alliance With the Russian Federation

All the indicators suggest that Moscow wants to hold Armenia within its political orbit at all costs, even if it means it has to twist a few arms and break a few heads to do so. Taking into serious consideration the volatility of the current geopolitical order in the world today and the overt aggressions emanating from western led forces, I fully support what Moscow is doing within its zones of influence. Regarding Russo-Armenian relations, there should be no limits set to this friendship. Although Moscow is only concerned about its national interests, their actions in the greater Caucasus region are, nevertheless, having positive repercussions for Armenia. The Armenian Republic today has political weight internationally and it is untouchable by foreign forces primarily because of its close multilateral alliance with Russia and to a lesser extent, Iran. I would like to address the following concern that many Armenians have regarding Yerevan's close relations with Moscow; the lose of Armenia's independence. In getting closer to Russia, Armenia doesn't need to worry about losing its independence, Moscow is not seeking to incorporate Armenia into its federation. However, if in the future there is another major calamity within the region and Armenia has an option of joining the Russian Federation for its survival - I say, why not? In final analysis, in the Caucasus, it's all about survival. When you are an impoverished, tiny, landlocked, friendless and a resource-less country you will naturally tend to seek powerful friends. In this regard, the Russian Federation is our only option in the region. Obviously, Armenia also needs to maintain close and cordial relations with the West and Iran. However, when it comes to the West, Armenians should 'never' think that Armenia's national prosperity, or national existence for that matter, is a subject of concern for Brussels or Washington. In this regard, it is no secret that many within Russia's political and military elite, as well as their intelligencia, realize that Armenia's existence as an independent pro-Russian nation within the south Caucasus is crucially important for Russia's longterm national interests. For the foreseeable future, Armenia will be a vulnerable nation. In a worst case scenario, I rather have Armenia survive within the Russian Federation as a autonomous region than survive as an Iranian, Azeri or a Turkish province.

Russia and Iran have both had a long history of rivalry against regional Turks. Even today, Moscow and Tehran do not wish to see the rise of Azeri and/or Turkish power in the Caucasus region. Thus, Armenia can serve as a natural buffer against Turks and their western supporters. This is precisely how Armenia has become a geostrategically pivotal nation for Moscow and Tehran. Nevertheless, I firmly believe that without the Russian/Soviet factor in Armenia's national historiography there would not have been an Armenian Republic today. A point I would like to emphasize here is that as long as true Russian (Slav/Orthodox) nationalists are in power in Moscow the Armenian Republic has not much to be concerned about. Although relations between Russia and Armenia today are close and strategic in nature, Moscow was not playing nice with Yerevan for a while. Relations between Yerevan and Moscow were not very stable during the 1990s. There was a real threat back then that Armenia would brake away from the Moscow's orbit. Some have even claimed that the parliamentary assassinations in Armenia secured Russia's dominance in Armenia's internal affairs. Reality is that Moscow can make or break nations in the Caucasus, especially now that they have been roaring back to life - with a vengeance. Let's take a close look at Georgia and Azerbaijan, they have both essentially become hostages to Moscow. Baku nor Tbilisi are able to resist Russian pressure even though they both have direct access to the outside world, and very close alliances/relations with Turkey, EU, USA and Israel. How would an impoverished and landlocked Armenia would have faired had official Yerevan opposed Moscow's overtures in Armenia?

Taking the above into concideration, it is easy to see why Russia wants to control Armenia's economy, namely the energy sector. Moscow wants to ensure that Armenia is not able to breakaway from Moscow's orbit, and Armenia today is in no position to call the shots with Moscow. In other words, Moscow does not want to place hope in Armenian politicians making the right decisions every few years. By controlling a nation's infrastructure, its lifeline, you secure its allegiance. Taking into serious consideration our people's political inexperience, I support Moscow's actions in Armenia and I fully support the pro-Russian Hanrapetutyun party in Armenia. At this stage in our national development, especially in the Caucasus, Armenia can't allow its citizenry to decide sensitive geopolitical matters. The practice of true "democracy" in a nation like Armenia can potentially prove to be fatal for the nation. Consequently, due to the geopolitical nature of the region in question the Armenian Republic has no other choice but to remain firmly stand beside Moscow. In my opinion, in this day in age, when battle-lines are already being drawn within various geopolitical theaters around the world, the Armenian Republic 'must' seek to become a Russian outpost. This term - "Russian outpost" - used by a Russian politician several years ago in describing Armenia's relationship to Russia outraged many Armenians worldwide. I ask: why the outrage? Just like western Europe is an American outpost, just like Saudi Arabia is an American outpost, just like Japan is an American outpost, just like Georgia is an American outpost, just like Turkey is an American outpost, etc., Armenia's best bet, its only option today, is to remain as close as possible to the Russian Federation and their regional apparatus.

In my opinion, Yerevan needs to more-or-less distance itself from Washington. Accepting money from official Washington is like taking money from a loan shark. Moreover, the US empire today is on a global rampage of exploitation and bloodshed, and its favorite choice of weapon has been the false notion of bringing "freedom" and "democracy" to the oppressed peoples of the world. However, as we have seen, when Washington's version of "freedom" and "democracy" does not succeed in helping realize its agenda, it soon becomes Washington's "shock and awe" time - as we saw in Serbia and Iraq. The fact of the matter is that Uncle Sam is a sick pervert with a blood lust and he has no place in Armenia's internal affairs. Armenia does not need the "democracy" nor the "freedom" that is exported by Washington - more often than not on the tip of a sharp bayonet. What's more, it does not take a genius to realize that the world's most corrupt, the most undemocratic nations have tended to be Washington's closest partners. Today, the bloodiest and the most destructive entity on earth is the political/military apparatus in Washington. Ideologically and geopolitically Armenia's rightful place is with the Russian Federation. However, Armenia should appreciate Mother Russia for practical reasons as well. In my opinion, the future potentially belongs to Russia. Russia controls the largest oil and gas reserves on earth; Russia controls the largest landmass on earth; Russia controls the largest amounts of natural resources on earth; Russia has managed to monopolize virtually the entire gas/oil distribution of central Asia; Russia has finally been able to brake the shackles of their western antagonists; Russians are now on a fast pace resurgence militarily, politically and economically; Russia controls the politics of the Caucasus; Russia controls the politics of Central Asia; Russia controls the politics of eastern Europe to a large extent; And with their economic/military alliances with China - the 21th century potentially belongs to Russia.

What's more, by far, Russia is Armenia's largest and most lucrative trading partner. Annual trade between Moscow and Yerevan is currently over $500 million and it will most probably reach somewhere around one billion in the near future. What's more, Armenia's most affordable source for gas and oil is Russia. What's more, Armenia's only source for affordable and modern military hardware is Russia. What's more, Armenia's only source for nuclear fuel is Russia. And Armenia's only hope in fending off Turkish and/or Azeri aggression in the Caucasus is Yerevan's continuing alliance with the Russian Federation. The only other strategically vital nation for Armenia is Iran. The hard reality is that a tiny, impoverished and landlocked nation like Armenia does 'not' serve the geopolitical interests of the western world - especially when the Armenian nation has serious problems with the West's most vital allies in the region, namely Azerbaijan and Turkey and to a lesser extent, Georgia. Simply put, Armenia only serves the geostrategic interests of Moscow and to a lesser extent, Tehran. This is the hard reality in the world today. This is our reality in the Caucasus. This is what our national destiny has dealt us, at least for the foreseeable future. Armenians are naturally concerned about Russia owning a large share of Armenia's energy infrastructure and many of its vital and potentially profitable industries. I agree that these concerns are valid and such a situation may potentially have some longterm negative consequences. In my opinion, however, we need to place this concern in a proper perspective:

Let's make believe that we have a king ruling over a small, poor, resource-less, landlocked nation that is blockaded and under the threat of a major war. This nation is located within a hotly contested region. There are foreign forces attempting to cause trouble for the small nation internally and externally and is surrounded by unfriendly powers. The nation's industry is dead and it has no secure and/or efficient access to the outside world. The king does not have the proper means to support his social infrastructure. And he knows well that major powers in the world are in bed with his enemies.... Then a powerful emperor from the north sends the king a proposal: "Pledge your allegiance to us, let us run the infrastructure in your country and we will protect you militarily and we will trade with you." As king, what should he do? Yes, it's a very though call. The gloomy picture I painted above is not a fairytale nor is it an exaggeration, it is more-or-less the accurate depiction of the geopolitical situation Armenia faces today in the Caucasus. Let's remember that the Caucasus does not allow for mistakes. The last time we made some political mistakes at the turn of the 20th century, look at what happened - 2 million dead and total destruction of our homeland. The ruling administration in Yerevan, for various reasons, personal and political, have decided that the best way for Armenia to go forward is by allowing Russia full access in Armenia. In an ideal political situation I would have opposed such deep levels of Russian control in the Armenian Republic - but politics in the Caucasus is far from ideal.

Nevertheless, the Armenian Republic is not able to utilize its industry effectively. The fact of the matter is, Armenia does not have the resources, it does not have unhindered access routes, it does not have the money, nor does it have the international contacts for its industry to operate independently and efficiently. What's more, Armenia needs to import its energy - gas, oil and nuclear fuel. As I highlighted above, the Russian Federation has more-or-less a monopoly of the region's energy resources and its distribution. As a result, if not Russia, who is Armenia going to rely on for its domestic energy needs? Yes, Armenia has begun dealing with Iran regarding energy, but Iran has serious problems. As we can see, Iran is virtually under siege and if the West could have its way they would cut off Yerevan from Iran in a heartbeat. What's more, due to Russia's strategic concerns, Moscow does not want to see Yerevan relying on anyone else but Russia. As a result, they are forcing Armenia to allow Moscow to get in on the deal with Iran. So, what can Armenia do at this stage? What options does Yerevan have? Play hardball with Russia by dealing with Azerbaijan and Turkey? I don't think so. Moreover, let us take into consideration that the Russian Federation in its vastness is also an excellent market for Armenian products and a good indirect route to other markets around the world. Therefore, under these prevailing conditions and circumstances in our homeland, why not allow Russia full access into our economy - especially when they are strongly imposing themselves upon us? At the very least, let us find some comfort in the thought that a major superpower today is taking its relationship with the Armenian Republic very seriously.

However, Russia has tended to have internal problem throughout its history. At times, the Russian nation has been very volatile. Russia may be Armenia's dependable partner today but an unforeseen internal problem in the future may change that overnight. This has already happened to Armenia several times in the past. I would like to emphasize yet again that as long as true Russian nationalists are in power in Moscow the Armenia does not have much to be concerned about. Unfortunately, being in the situation it is in today, it is natural that Armenia will be dependent upon a major power for survival. In my opinion, while it lasts, we should take full advantage of our close relations with Russia to strengthen our nation's military, economy and international standing. This way, if the Russian Federation has another one of their internal upheavals in the future our small nation would not be as vulnerable it has been in the past. Those who bitterly complain about Armenia not having true independence due to the Russian presence in the nation are not taking into consideration the nuances of the region's geopolitical situation. Regardless of how proud Armenians are of their national heritage and fighting spirit, Armenians must realize that Armenia is not a major force on earth today and in an increasingly hostile world Armenia needs big friends. Thus, the inevitability and necessity of Armenia's alliance with Russia. As I said, there should be no limits to a true friendship. As such, I hope to see Russo-Armenian relations realizing their full potential. Nevertheless, I realize that with or without Russia, living in the Caucasus has its inherent risks.

Armenian

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

And this.

And all of these geopolitical and socioeconomic nuances are more pronounced today as a result of Georgia's total defeat at Russian hands and the resulting expulsion of western forces from the region.

Although there are a few wrinkles that need to be ironed out, for better or for worst, Armenia's future lies with the Russian Federation. Why Russia? Besides the centuries long history between Armenians and Russians, besides the fact that due to a Russian presence in the region there is an Armenia in the Caucasus today, besides the fact that Russia is amongst the most advanced nations on earth - Armenians need to understand that the twenty-first century potentially belongs to Russia. This is, in essence, why we are currently seeing a frenzy of activity in the West to contain and/or undermine the Russian Federation throughout Eurasia. What's more, Armenians need to understand that Russia is a natural bulwork against pan-Turkism, western imperialism and Sunni fundamentalism. I am very glad that the "Hanrapetakan" party in Armenia, represented today by president Serzh Sargsyan, has had the strategic foresight to make sure that Armenia remains firmly within Moscow's sphere of influence. Concurrently, I am grateful that Moscow continues to realize the vital strategic importance of the Armenian Republic within the Caucasus. Why is Armenia important for Russia? For geostrategic reasons, namely to keep NATO and Turks out of the Caucasus and to secure its oil/gas distribution networks, Moscow needs Armenia as an ally in the region. And as noted above, for geostrategic, economic and survival reasons - Armenia needs Russian support.

The fact of the matter is, the West has no real interests within the tiny landlocked resource-less Armenian Republic other than to make sure official Yerevan does not interfere with their regional projects. The West's interest in the region is primarily the exploitation of Caspian Sea basin oil and gas, keeping the large powerful nation of Turkey within its sphere of influence and keeping Russia at bay, out of the Caucasus. Needless to say, without the Russian factor at play in the Caucasus, the every existence of the Armenian nation can be at risk. For the West, Armenia is simply a geopolitical obstacle, a nuisance. For Russia, Armenia is a strategic gate, a foothold in the Caucasus, that it has to protect for its national interests. For Armenia, Russia is a sustainer that it needs to stay alive in a very volatile and complicated geopolitical environment. For a small, landlocked and resources-less nation surrounded by historic enemies in an increasingly complicated world, Armenia has no other option but to place its longterm and short term hopes upon Mother Russia. May God bless the centuries old Russo-Armenian alliance.

When it comes to the nature of Russian-Armenian relations the following is what matters:

Armenian

*****************************

Armenia Armed by Russia for battles with Azerbaijan Scandal compared to Iran-Contra

Russia secretly has shipped more than $1 billion worth of arms to Armenia, apparently to be used against - pro-Western Azerbaijan and - to force the Azeris -and their strategic oil reserves into Russia's orbit. Aman Tuleyev, minister for relations with the Commonwealth of Independent States, has acknowledged that Moscow supplied Armenia with 84 T-72 main battle tanks, 72 heavy howitzers, 24 Scud missiles with eight launchers, 50 armored personnel carriers and millions of rounds of ammunition. Lev Rokhlin, the chairman of the Defense Committee of the Duma, the lower House of the Russian parliament, told a closed Duma session April 2 that Moscow had -shipped $1 billion worth of weapons to the tough, nationalist government of President Levon Ter-Petrosian in Yerevan. His report was similar to Mr. Tuleyev's acknowledgment. Between 1992 and early 1994, when the conflict was at its height, Russian heavy transport aircraft were said to have ferried 1,300 tons of ammunition across the Caucasus to the Armenian capital. Most of the tanks were flown in aboard giant Antonov planes from the city of Akhtubinsk.


The Azeris say Russia also supplied 1,000 hand-fired Strela-2 and Strela-3 anti-aircraft missiles, which were moved by ship across The Caspian Sea, then sent over land through Iran to Armenia. Iran has denied playing any role. Western intelligence sources said The weapons played a crucial role in Armenia's, seizure of large areas of Azerbaijan, which created a million refugees, more than from any other conflict in Europe since World War II. Although Russia's military support for Armenia in its long conflict with Azerbaijan has been well-known, the extent of the arms transfers came as a surprise.

Responding to the revelations, Russian President Boris Yeltsin ordered a major government probe Saturday that could implicate his longtime defense minister, Marshal Pavel Grachev who was fired last spring. Russian military prosecutors are considering calling Marshal Grachev in for questioning over the scandal, which has been compared to The Iran-Contra affair. The- chairman of the Azeri parliament, Murtuz Alesketov, said Saturday the arms shipments could destabilize the Caucasus. "If these arms are not returned, this could lead to a new large-scale war in the region" he said at parliamentary hearings in Baku. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union at the end of 1991, Shi'ite Muslim Azerbaijan has eagerly courted American oil companies to help it develop the immense oil and gas reserves of the Caspian Sea, estimated as second in size and value only to those in the Persian Gulf. Russia has responded by backing Orthodox Christian Armenia, its historic
ally.

[...]

Source: http://www.geocities.com/baguirov/arms1.htm

ARMENIA AND RUSSIA REASSERT BONDS AMID GEORGIA’S CRISIS

While Georgia’s political crisis continues into its third week, Russian officials have praised Armenia as a chief ally in the volatile Transcaucasus region, potentially strengthening strategic ties between Moscow and Yerevan. On Nov.14, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov met with his Armenian counterpart Vardan Oskanian in Moscow. Russia’s chief diplomat hailed the bilateral alliance. Oskanian noted "complicated situation" in the region and dismissed media allegations that Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze had requested assistance from Armenian President Robert Kocharian. "It did not happen," Oskanian said, according to the RIA news agency. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov also distanced Russia and Armenia from the crisis in Georgia. Ivanov dubbed Armenia as "Russia’s only ally in the south," called Russian arms supplies to Armenia "purely defensive" and pledged to replenish them. "Russia’s military presence in Armenia is necessary. The military hardware at the Russian 102nd base makes any threat to Armenia unrealistic," Ivanov told a news conference in Yerevan, according to Interfax. "We will rearm and re-equip the Russian 102nd military base in Armenia." On November 11, Ivanov and his Armenian counterpart Serge Sarkisian signed a number of agreements on the Russian military base as well as on bilateral military cooperation in 2004. The deals seem to bolster what is already a close strategic relationship. "These agreements would allow the 102nd base to feel more comfortable," Ivanov reportedly commented. Russian forces in Armenia reportedly use MiG-29 jetfighters and S300 PMU1 air defense batteries, an advanced version of the SA-10C Grumble air defense missile. According to Russian missile manufacturers, the new S300 has anti-stealth capability and can shoot down combat aircraft, cruise missiles as well as ballistic missiles in an ABM mode. The S300 PMU1 missile system can engage targets flying as low as 10 meters off the ground at a range of up to 150 kilometers.

[...]

Source: http://www.eurasianet.org/department...av111703.shtml

Russia to invest over half billion dollars to Armenian economy

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Armenian President Robert Kocharyan today had meeting, APA reports quoting RIA Novosti agency.
The sides discussed huge projects to be implemented with the participation of Russia in Armenia. Kremlin source stated that bilateral cooperation in energy with the participation of Gasprom occupies special place among these projects. Over $500 million will be invested in Armenian economy in the framework of this project. Involvement of Russian capital into the development of Razdan Thermal Power Station, construction of refinery near Mehri city, modernization of Armenia’s railways and other transport infrastructures, atomic energy, gold production and other fields are on focus. Putin and Kocharyan also touched on several international problems and the situation in the Caucasus.

Source: http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=33372

Gazprom: Oil Refinery in Armenia To Process Crude Oil from Iran

A subsidiary of Russia's state-run Gazprom gas giant confirmed on Friday reports that it is considering building a big oil refinery in Armenia that would process crude from neighboring Iran. A spokesman for the Gazprom-Neft company, Natalya Vyalkina, told RFE/RL that both the Armenian and Russian governments are looking into the project estimated at a staggering $1.7 billion. She would not say when they could make concrete decisions. Reports in the Russian press have said President Robert Kocharian discussed the matter with Russian Industry and Energy Minister Viktor Khristenko and other top officials during his confidential visit to Moscow last week. Khristenko’s ministry refused to comment on the information. Russian-Armenian cooperation on energy was on the agenda of Kocharian’s follow-up talks with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday. The projected refinery would reportedly be built in Meghri, an Armenian town close to the Iranian border, and have the capacity to process up to 7 million tons of Iranian oil each year. Petrol produced by it would be exported to Iran. Despite its vast oil reserves, the Islamic Republic has to import gasoline to meet domestic demand.

Source: http://www.huliq.com/8161/gazprom-oi...-oil-from-iran

Russia going to finance construction of new NPP in Armenia?

Russia is ready to fully finance construction of a new Nuclear Power Plant in Armenia, IA Regnum reports with a reference to a source in the Armenian government. Some agreements were achieved during the recent visit of Sergey Kiriyenko, the head of the Russia’s Federal Atomic Energy Agency (Rosatom) to Yerevan. Russia will be a joint owner of the new Armenian NPP, according to the source. Russia’s share in abuilding NPPs in foreign states may make from 5% to 20-30%. Kiriyenko said Russia is ready to send specialists for the works to be carried out. The Armenian authorities are planning to build a new NPP, since the republic has no other alternative after the closing of the Metsamor Nuclear Power Plant. At a meeting with the students of the Yerevan State University RA President Robert Kocharian said Armenia should have atomic energy and works are carried out in this direction. Some $240 million is essential to close the ANPP whose operation term expires in 2016. However, with joining the European Neighborhood Policy, Armenia undertook to close the NPP in the shortest terms.

Source: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=22103

Russian defense minister visited Memorial to victims of the Armenian Genocide

On January 26, Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister, Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov who is currently in Armenia, visited Memorial to victims of the Armenian Genocide in Ottoman Empire in Yerevan. As a REGNUM correspondent informs, the Russian minister was accompanied by Secretary of National Security Council of the Armenian President, Defense Minister Serzh Sarkisyan, representative of the country’s military commandment, Russian Ambassador to Armenia and other officials. Ivanov placed a wreath to the Eternal Flame and observed the pine tree that he had planted by himself at the Alley of memory. Besides, during his trip Ivanov visited Russian military base in Gyumri, met the Armenian president, prime minister and defense minister of Armenia.

Source: http://www.regnum.ru/english/polit/579732.html

One of Russia’s priorities – relations with Armenia - Lavrov

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday relations with Armenia is one of Russia’s priorities. “We believe that stability in the Caucasus depends in many respects on Armenia’s situation,” he told a meeting with students and professors of the Yerevan State University. “It is possible to ensure such stability not by means of creating a certain bloc, but by means of joint efforts,” he said. “Within the framework of the Collective Security Treaty Organization we do not try to fence off ourselves from others or work against anyone,” he said. The Collective Security Treaty Organization is “aimed at stability, counteraction to terrorism and drugs trafficking and open cooperation with the countries interested in resolving these tasks,” Lavrov said. He pointed out that Russia is interested in calm on its borders, stable development of neighbouring countries and “mutually advantageous and equal cooperation with them proceeding from the interests of our economies and our countries.”

Source: http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....2515&PageNum=0

[Muhaha]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Start with the following.

1. Armenian, your main mistake is that you seem to have accepted the idea that Armenia is alone and can't survive by itself. This may be true in the very short term,1-5 years, but any more than that is simply not smart.


Armenia has no major industry that supplies the world, correct. This can all change with a little investment into the scientists and intellectuals of Armenia. I don't believe it would be too hard for Armenian's to invent something that the entire world finds useful, creating a name for itself, boosting it's economy by huge numbers, and weakening the need for foreign influence. As history has shown, people like Bill Gates didn't need billions in funds to revolutionize the world and all it would take would be 'cafe money' to realize the potential of Armenia's intelligence.

It's time the people of the ROA started treating Armenia like the actual country that it is and not just some kind of strip of land, such as Palestine.


2. Concerning 'outposts. I'd rather Armenia be an outpost for the West than for Russia, my reasons are simple:

- Say what you want about the United States, with all the corporations, special interest controlled media, lobby controlled politicians, and mostly clueless citizens, it is a better and more free society than the Russian Federation is. I assume you're someone whose spent most of his time in the U.S, would you be the same person you are today if you hadn't? Don't you feel you have access to a lot more education, free information, and personal thought than you would in Russia? Would the Alex Jones equivalent of Russia be allowed to stay on air as long as he has? Would the Ron Paul of Russia, brutally criticizing his government, even be allowed to live?


- The only reason the West seems to favor the likes of Azerbaijan is simply because the Sargsyan government does a horrible job of refuting the absolute B.S Alyev and his gang put out there. As the August war has shown, the U.S doesn't care about the Caucus' enough to risk war with Russia so all Armenia has to do is a little lobbying and the Artsakh issue could easily be in it's favor. Caspian oil isn't as important as Cheney wants it to be.

3. So in conclusion, as far as the long run is concerned, I am strongly against Moscow becoming anything more than an economic partner for Armenia and I hope the Sargsyan Administration can do something to secure it's ties and support of the West, especially with a new Administration coming in, the West is an open book, meanwhile securing Armenia's independence and livelihood.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Anti-Russian propaganda in the West has been so thorough, so successful, that ethnic Russians today are actually blamed for all the evils and excesses of Bolshevism/Communism. The reality of the matter is that Bolshevism was purely a Jewish led movement that first gained momentum in western Europe but was later transferred to a vulnerable Russian Empire by the western political/financial elite (found in Germany, USA, Great Britain and France) with the primary intention of destroying Czarist rule.

Vast majority of the Bolshevik leadership were of non-Russian decent. They were mostly Jews, many of whom were not even Russian born. Comparatively speaking, under Bolshevism the Russian nation by-far suffered the most. Russians lost their empire. Russia's political aristocracy lost their power and in most cases their lives as well. The great wealth of the Russian Empire was essentially looted by Bolsheviks and western powers. The Russian Orthodox Church was utterly decimated, its holdings confiscated, its treasures stolen, its clergy massacred in the thousands. Russia's Czarist intelligencia and military leadership was totally decimated. Various Russian institutions were fully eradicated. Russia also lost territories under Bolshevik rule. Millions are said to have died in Russia and in the Ukraine during the 1930s as a result of the Bolshevik revolution and the resulting sociopolitical chaos.

Blaming ethnic Russians for the evils brought upon by Bolshevism is like blaming the hapless rape/murder victim for their plight.

By a stark contrast, and despite its evils, Bolshevism saved the Armenian nation from extinction at the hands of Turks and helped Armenians to eventually create a modern republic. The fact remains, had it not been for the Bolsheviks the Armenian nation could not have lasted very long in the blood soaked Caucasus region.

At the start of the First World War in 1914, Yerevan was a little dusty town of around 30-40 thousand inhabitants, half of whom were Muslims (Azeris and Persians). By the end of the First World War in 1918, most of the Muslims were gone but all of Armenia was now a desolate wasteland with a population perhaps under one million, half of whom were starved and disease stricken genocide survivors. Therefore, it was natural and quite inevitable that the authorities in Armenia at the time realizing their hopeless situation would relinquished their rule to the lesser of the two evils knocking at the door in 1920. Under Bolshevism Armenians were able to eventually transform Yerevan from a backward Islamic town into a modern metropolis. Of course Bolsheviks were also responsible for giving away historic Armenian lands to Turkey and Azerbaijan, but that's another story.

Relatively speaking, for a small nation like Armenia, numbering perhaps less than a million inhabitants at the time, Armenians had more representation within the Bolshevik leadership than ethnic Russians.

The Soviet Union began to take on a 'Russian' flavor only as an unintended consequence of Stalin's political purges which primarily impacted the Jewish rank and file, and also as a result of the patriotic fervor brought upon ethnic Slavs by the onset of the Second World War.

And, yes, I do get tired of explaining these obvious facts over and over again. But it's OK, I do realize that the vast majority of people are total idiots that need to be spoon fed knowledge.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

These comments of yours are so stupid on so many levels that I will not waste time on them. You are bordering on either hallucination or total ignorance. I'm not sure which one it is yet. Perhaps other members here might want to entertain you instead.

1. Armenian, your main mistake is that you seem to have accepted the idea that Armenia is alone and can't survive by itself. This may be true in the very short term,1-5 years, but any more than that is simply not smart.

Armenia has no major industry that supplies the world, correct. This can all change with a little investment into the scientists and intellectuals of Armenia. I don't believe it would be too hard for Armenian's to invent something that the entire world finds useful, creating a name for itself, boosting it's economy by huge numbers, and weakening the need for foreign influence. As history has shown, people like Bill Gates didn't need billions in funds to revolutionize the world and all it would take would be 'cafe money' to realize the potential of Armenia's intelligence.

It's time the people of the ROA started treating Armenia like the actual country that it is and not just some kind of strip of land, such as Palestine.

2. Concerning 'outposts. I'd rather Armenia be an outpost for the West than for Russia, my reasons are simple:

- Say what you want about the United States, with all the corporations, special interest controlled media, lobby controlled politicians, and mostly clueless citizens, it is a better and more free society than the Russian Federation is. I assume you're someone whose spent most of his time in the U.S, would you be the same person you are today if you hadn't? Don't you feel you have access to a lot more education, free information, and personal thought than you would in Russia? Would the Alex Jones equivalent of Russia be allowed to stay on air as long as he has? Would the Ron Paul of Russia, brutally criticizing his government, even be allowed to live?

- The only reason the West seems to favor the likes of Azerbaijan is simply because the Sargsyan government does a horrible job of refuting the absolute B.S Alyev and his gang put out there. As the August war has shown, the U.S doesn't care about the Caucus' enough to risk war with Russia so all Armenia has to do is a little lobbying and the Artsakh issue could easily be in it's favor. Caspian oil isn't as important as Cheney wants it to be.

3. So in conclusion, as far as the long run is concerned, I am strongly against Moscow becoming anything more than an economic partner for Armenia and I hope the Sargsyan Administration can do something to secure it's ties and support of the West, especially with a new Administration coming in, the West is an open book, meanwhile securing Armenia's independence and livelihood.