The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russia Accused of Missile Firing in Georgian Air Space



The former Soviet republic of Georgia is accusing Russia of firing a missile inside its air space. The weapon apparently did not explode, but as VOA correspondent Peter Fedynsky reports from Moscow, the incident again raises tensions between Georgia and Russia.

Georgia called in the Russian ambassador to Tbilisi to protest the alleged missile firing and violation of Georgian airspace. A representative of the country's Interior Ministry, Shota Utiashvili, told VOA that two Russian planes flew about 60 kilometers into Georgian airspace. He says the missile landed near the village of Tsitelubani, 60 kilometers from the capital, Tbilisi. "The missile," says Utiashvili, "landed about 30 meters from the home of a local resident and created a narrow hole about five-meters deep, but there were no casualties," he said. Officials in Russia strongly deny the Georgian accusations.

There were no Russian military flights in the area all day Monday, nor were there any in the evening, overnight or on Tuesday morning," said Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky, a spokesman for the Russian air force. "The border of the sovereign state of Georgia was not violated." Interior Ministry spokesman Utiashvili says the planes flew at high altitude and their markings were not visible from the ground. But Georgian Interior Minister Vano Merabishvili says the planes were identified as Sukhoi-24 attack aircraft, which entered Georgian airspace from Russia late Monday.

Georgian officials are studying the site where they say the missile landed, which was shown on television with debris that had Cyrillic lettering. The alleged missile firing occurred near the rebel Georgian province of South Ossetia. Officials there are blaming Georgia for staging the missile launch in an effort to discredit Russia. Georgian leaders accuse Moscow of supporting South Ossetian separatists. Relations between Tbilisi and Moscow have become steadily worse since the 2003 election of Georgian President Mikhail Shaakashvilli, a pro-Western leader who is seeking closer ties with NATO.

Source: http://voanews.com/english/2007-08-07-voa20.cfm

Russia demands probe into alleged Georgian airspace violation

The Russian Foreign Ministry said Tuesday it insisted on an immediate investigation into an alleged infringement of Georgian airspace by Russian fighters in the South Ossetian conflict zone. Georgian Minister for Conflict Resolution David Bakradze said earlier Tuesday that on the night of August 6 two Russian Su-25 fighters illegally entered Georgian airspace and fired a missile at a radar station near the city of Gori. The missile did not explode and the radar was not damaged, he said.

The Russian ministry said: "We are certain that the results of an investigation, which we believe should be started immediately, will show us the true organizers and participants of such dangerous games." Vyacheslav Kovalenko, the Russian ambassador to Georgia, was summoned earlier Tuesday to the Georgian Foreign Ministry in connection with the incident. Speaking to reporters after meeting with Georgian Foreign Minister Gela Bezhuashvili, Kovalenko said: "Russian aircraft did not violate Georgia's airspace. I am completely ruling out such a possibility."

His statement echoes earlier denials by Russian Air Force officials. "Russian aircraft did not fly over Georgian territory either Monday evening or Tuesday morning," said Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky, a spokesman for the Russian Air Force. "They did not violate Georgian airspace." Meanwhile, Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia accused Tbilisi of violating its airspace and firing missiles at its territory. "Georgia has conducted an air strike on the territory of South Ossetia," the self-declared government's press service said in a statement Tuesday.

"A Georgian aircraft, probably a Su-25 or L-39, flew over the village of Tsinagar and fired air-to-ground missiles in the Gromski Gorge," the statement said, adding there were no reports of casualties or damage. South Ossetia, which declared its independence from Georgia following a bloody conflict that left hundreds dead in 1991-1992, is a sensitive issue in bilateral relations between Georgia and Russia. Georgian authorities are seeking to bring it back under their control, and have accused Russia, which has peacekeepers in the area, along with Georgian and South Ossetian troops, of encouraging separatist elements.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/world/20070807/70542447.html

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russia's strategic aviation holds tactical exercises in Arctic


Tu-160 Blackjack Strategic Bomber

Russia's strategic aviation started Wednesday an active phase of military exercises to fly over the North Pole and conduct test launches of cruise missiles, an Air Force spokesman said. During the active phase, four Tu-160 Blackjack, 12 Tu-95 Bear-H strategic bombers, and 14 Tu-22 Backfire-C theater bombers will conduct simulated bombing raids, and more than ten cruise missile launches at the Pemboi range near Vorkuta [in Russia's Arctic], and fly over the North Pole, the Pacific, and Atlantic Oceans.

"On Wednesday, Tu-160 and Tu-95 bombers conducted eight successful [test] launches of cruise missiles at designated targets in northern Russia," Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky said, adding that the planes made over 40 sorties throughout the day. The Russian aircraft were closely monitored by NATO fighters during the missions. The spokesman said six long-range aviation regiments were involved in the exercise to practice interaction with fighter aircraft, air refueling, and overcoming enemy air defenses. Units of the 37th Air Army of the Strategic Command will conduct a total of six tactical exercises in August as part of an annual training program, the Defense Ministry earlier said in a statement. According to various sources, the Russian Air Force currently deploys 141 Tu-22M3 bombers, 40 Tu-95MS bombers, and 14 Tu-160 planes.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070808/70616742.html

Russia to equip 20 battalions with S-400 air defense systems -1


S-400 Triumf Air Defense System

More than 20 Russian battalions will be equipped with S-400 anti-missile systems by 2015, the country's top military official said Tuesday. The S-400 Triumf (NATO codename SA-21 Growler) is a new air defense missile system developed by the Almaz Central Design Bureau as an upgrade of the S-300 family. "Over two dozen battalions are to be equipped with such systems by 2015," Yury Baluyevsky, chief of staff of the Russian Armed Forces, said during a meeting with President Vladimir Putin. Monday saw the first such battalion come into operation in the Moscow Region, which Baluyevsky said was good news, as the system was based on new solutions and promising technologies. "There are almost no such systems in the world," he added.

The system has been designed to intercept and destroy airborne targets at a distance of up to 400 kilometers (250 miles), or twice the range of the MIM-104 Patriot, and 2.5 times that of the S-300PMU-2. It is capable of destroying stealth aircraft, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles with an effective range of up to 3,500 kilometers (2,200 miles) and a speed of up to 4.8 kilometers (3 miles) per second. "The system has good prospects for using nanotechnologies, besides others, to increase striking range and height," Baluyevsky said. President Putin thanked members of the military, engineers and other workers who helped place the first S-400 systems on combat duty.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070807/70535832.html

[Siamanto]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I don't understand why, from time to time, you unfairly discard all efforts done by non-Dashnaks and credit all merits to the Dashnaks when the latter have obviously hurt the Hay Tad for many decades??? How does it serve the Armenian interests?

In comparison, besides a couple of hundred hard-line Dashanks from Lebanon and Syria what did the Armenian Diaspora of the West do?

For the record, more non-Dashnak or anti-Dashnak Armenians from the Diaspora - including from, but not exclusively, Lebanon and Syria - went to Artsakh to help.

What they did was the only thing they know how to do - They were crying at the feet of the majors powers and begging for mercy.

I think that the above can easily characterize the policies of the Dashnaktsounioun for many decades when they
1. Humiliated, ostracized, physically threatened all young Armenians - including some Dashnaks - who dared to believe in the Hay Tad to the point that forced those young Armenians and organizations to go underground
2. Shut down Armenian publications that encouraged Armenians to fight for the Hay Tad
3. Conducted a virulent anti-Russian policy
4. Became the echo of pro-J.e.w.ish, pro-Zionist, pro-American propaganda within the Armenian Communities
5. Collaborated with free masons
6. Encouraged the migration of Armenians from the Middle East to the US...maybe, to join "eating Luleh kabobs in Church picnics?"
7....

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I don't understand why, from time to time, you unfairly discard all efforts done by non-Dashnaks and credit all merits to the Dashnaks when the latter have obviously hurt the Hay Tad for many decades??? How does it serve the Armenian interests?

Hurt the Hai Dat?

That comment of yours alone should have made me not reply to you. Before you go on making a fool of yourself, I suggest you look at the ANC (the only real Hai Dat organization in existence) and what they have done in Washington DC and then compare their record to that of the Armenian Assembly (the only other disporan lobbying group who more-or-less are the stooges for the US State Department).

Incidentally, I'm not talking about social/benevolent organizations. As far as social organizations are concerned, I think the AGBU and various other similar organizations deserve a lot of credit. What I'm talking about is 'serious' politics, hard politics, international diplomacy, nationalism, and armed resistance. The ARF has been the only diasporan organization that has represented Armenians within the aforementioned parameters. Thus, it is quite easy to criticize those who have been at the forefront of our modern history. It's always difficult being on the main performance stage, there will always be worthless critics who have not done much by themselves but they feel the need to criticize. Yet, I would still expect you to tell me where have all the 'others' been all these years. By the way, have there been "others" in the diaspora, besides the long extinct Hnchaks?

For the record, more non-Dashnak or anti-Dashnak Armenians from the Diaspora - including from, but not exclusively, Lebanon and Syria - went to Artsakh to help.

Where did you pull that "record" out from, a Cracker Jack box? Talk is cheep, Siamanto.

Tell me how many diaspora organizations went to 'fight' in Artsakh when Artsakh was on the verge of destruction in the early 90s? I'm talking about impacting the outcome of the war, not sending used clothing, or eyeglasses for elders, or powdered milk for children, etc. Although there was a small group of Lebanese Armenian Hnchaks that went for a short period of time, the so-called "record" remains as is: From the beginning of hostilities in Artsakh, the ARF was organizing armed resistance there, much like they are currently doing in Javakhq. Thus, when the kaka hits the fan in Javakhq the ARF, as always, will be on the forefront of the resistance there much like they were in Artskah.

And again, where are all the others?

Today there are no Hnckas in sight, they are a thing of the past. Ramgavars of the diaspora are a pathetic joke when it comes to hard politics and armed resistance. The Armenian Assembly is serving Neocon agendas. So, who else is there, Siamanto? Disgruntled individuals like you who just want to argue, who have a lack of understanding and perception, who also happen to have psychological baggage pertaining the ARF, will always find faults with the less than perfect, yet magnificent, organization in question. You know why? Because it's easy to sit back do nothing and criticize the mistakes of those who are attempting to impact Armenian history. The ARF, within the diaspora, even with all their faults, is the 'only' capable nationalist organization we Armenians have in existence.

However, let me say this as well. Many ARF-ers today are worthless nationalists with massive egos and blunt talk. Nonetheless, the heart and soul of the party has always been the battle hardened, ideologically driven individual activists - whether they may be from Lebanon, Iran, Syria, Armenia or Artsakh.

I think that the above can easily characterize the policies of the Dashnaktsounioun for many decades when they...

Who's feet have the ARF begged at? Who are you comparing the ARF to? Who in the diaspora has impacted Armenian politics as much as the ARF? Who in the diaspora has impacted Artskah (and Javakhq) so directly? What are you even talking about?! The following is an essay I recently wrote about the ARF. I suggest you read it and contemplate it. Or better yet, go and get involved with serious ARF-ers and then come back to me. When I say "serious" ARF-ers, I'm talking about those who are serious/active party members and not those who 'think' they are ARF-ers.

Regarding the ARF


ARF Founders left to right: Stepan Zorian, Christapor Mikaelian, Simon Zavarian

The ARF began serving the Armenian nation in 1890 when its founding fathers decided to unite the various Armenian military and political groups in existence then, under one leadership and one flag. Hence their name - the Federation - Dashnakcutyun. And they have been at it ever since. The ARF is a serious political party who's members portray serious party mentalities and ethics. In theory, an ARF member is expected to only serve the party, and the party in turn is expected to serve the Fatherland. Unfortunately, however, due to human nature, it does not work that way all the time. Nevertheless, the political ideology of the ARF, on paper, is perhaps the most ideal form of Armenian nationalism we have today. Most ARF members are true Armenian nationalists. And ARF's one hundred+ years experience is simply priceless.

The ARF, with its affiliates worldwide, is perhaps amongst the biggest organizations within the world. The ARF controls a vast network worldwide: It has a youth organizations (AYF), a spiritual branch (Cilician See), a political branch (Hai-Dat/ANC), a cultural branch (Hamazgayin), a sports branch (Homentmen), a charity branch (HOM), and a military branch (information not available). This unique nature of the ARF is the fundamental reason why the KGB and the CIA tried very hard to infiltrate it during the Cold War. As a result, at times, the ARF had agents within the organization that worked for either the KGB or the CIA.

Founded in 1890, the ARF fought the Ottoman Sultan within Anatolia, in the Caucasus and in the Balkans during in the late nineteenth century and the early twentieth century. The ARF fought the Young Turks during the Armenian Genocide (Note: previously the ARF had made a serious mistake when it made a deal with the Young Turks and disarmed in 1908 after the Young Turks overthrew the Sultan and promised reform). Miraculously, the ARF managed to create and defend a fledgling Armenian homeland, the First Armenian Republic in 1918. Not being able to hold on due to serve geopolitical and socioeconomic problems in 1921, the ARF handed over the Armenian Republic to the lesser of the two evils at the time, the Bolsheviks. Afterwards, the ARF moved its operations and resources into the Armenian Diaspora. Within the Diaspora, the ARF organized the Armenian community and continued to fight for Armenia's liberation from Turks and Bolsheviks.


ARF Freedom Fighters Soon After Shushi's Liberation

When the KGB/NKVD penetrated the Armenian Church in Etchmiadzin, the ARF responded by essentially taking over the Cillician Church in Lebanon. During the Second World War, with hopes of liberating Armenia from Bolshevik rule, the ARF made a political alliance with the Nazis. During the Cold War, the ARF joined forces with the CIA. During Lebanon's civil war, the ARF was instrumental in protecting the Armenian community there and played a great "neutral" role within Lebanese politics. Also during the seventies, the ARF "Justice Commandos" began assassinating Turkish officials in the name of our "Hai Dat." Also during the same time, the ARF created the ANC, the finest political lobbying groups Armenians have in the West. During the eighties, ARF managed to establish ties with the Kurdish PKK and even managed to open lines of communications with the KGB. And in 1988, the ARF began sending armed agents into Artsakh.

In short, as a true political party, the ARF has attempted "everything" in its power to pursue its stated ideology: It attempted everything in its power to lead the Armenian Diaspora; it attempted everything in its power to resists turks; it attempted everything in its power to establish international ties, be it American, German, Socialist, Kurdish, Palestinian, Soviet, Iranian, etc. In essence, the ARF story is an epic in Armenian historiography. Looking at the ARF from afar, it looks very impressive, especially to none Armenians. I know first hand that the US State Department has taken notice of the unique nature of the ARF as well. I know that they consider the ARF to be one of the largest socio-political networks on earth and they openly call it an "ultra-nationalist" organization. They also consider the ARF the only major entity within the Armenian nation today that gets in the way of Armenian-Turkish reconciliation. The aforementioned is the fundamental reason why the US State Department helped promote the creation of the "Armenian Assembly" in America. The AA was created in essence to compete with the strong political influence the ARF has had over the Armenian diaspora (Note: TARC was presented to the Armenian community in America via the Armenian Assembly).


Famous ARF Armenian Freedom Fighters During the Ottoman Period. From Left to Right - Garegin Nzhteh, Arabo Arakel, Kévork Chavush.

The ARF party ideology is somewhat similar to the German NSDP - it is national socialist, although capitalists are found within the ARF ranks as well. The greatest ideological emphasis, however, is placed upon liberating Armenia's occupied western lands and preserving the liberation of Artsakh. And today, the ARF has began turning its attention towards the serious situation with Javakhq. Nevertheless, during their one hundred and seventeen year existence they have had historic victories and historic defeats, monumental successes and tragic mistakes, great heroic men and corrupt betrayers. They, in essence, have reflected the very nature of Armenian society as a whole. Of the great men that have been ARF members: Drastamat Kanayan, perhaps one of the greatest modern day warrior we have had. And let's not forget Garegin Njhdeh, perhaps the greatest nationalist/philosopher/political activist the Armenian nation has known.

In short: The ARF is an integral part of modern Armenian culture, the so-called ARF society is a "sub-culture" within the Armenian nation.

For better or for worst, the ARF has been the only Armenian political organization within the diaspora that has been on the very forefront of Armenian politics. Armenian political history for the last 100+ years have been for the most part written by the ARF. As a result, it is quite natural that they have had many mistakes - as well as having many successes. In the enormous complexities of the 20th century, it is quite natural that they have had many corrupt individuals within their ranks as well as having numerous historic figures. And there is a vast difference between 'collaborating' with certain entities with nationalistic intentions (whether it has been right or wrong, as in the case of their wrongful agreement in 1908 with the Young Turks, is another question) and 'begging' at the feet of superpowers.

Nonetheless, I ask again, who are you comparing them to in the diaspora? The non-existent Hnchaks? The AGBU? The Ramgavars? The Armenian Assembly? Who are you comparing them to?! Last time I checked, in person, in Artsakh, the ARF was one of the top three major political players there. Last time I checked, the ARF was number three in the Armenian Parliament. Again, where are all the others? Your less-than insightful comments about the ARF proves without a doubt that you know next to nothing about the organization in question. Nevertheless, I had simply made mild passing 'reference' to them in my comments about Russian-Armenians. This thread is about the Russian Federation and its relationship with Armenia.

If you want to discuss the ARF I would like to ask you to start a thread elsewhere on this board and I'll meet you there.

[Siamanto]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

This thread is about the Russian Federation and its relationship with Armenia. If you want to discuss the ARF I would like to ask you to start a thread elsewhere on this board and I'll meet you there.

If that is the case, maybe you should exclude party propaganda???? When I feel relevant, I can discuss anything that is stated here, specially when it seems totally baseless.
I'm neither pro nor anti Dashnak - when it comes to Armenian issues, I'm party agnostic despite my personal political convinctions, preferences and orientations - and I don't care enough about the Dashnaks to "meet you somewhere" - how childish??? So I will continue to express myself when and where something that I consider baseless is stated. Simple enough?

Hurt the Hai Dat?

That comment of yours alone should have made me not reply to you. Before you go on making a fool of yourself, I suggest you look at the ANC (the only real Hai Dat organization in existence) and what they have done in Washington DC and then compare their record to that of the Armenian Assembly (the only other disporan lobbying group who more-or-less are the stooges for the US State Department).

LOL Abris! Yes, you read it as it was meant: they did hurt the Hay Tad. You need to learn a little about how the Hay Tad evolved since the late 60s in the Diaspora when the mentalities started to change among the younger generations. It seem a bit laughable, to say the least, to take the US as an example where not much happened; at least, not until the relatively recent migration waves from Iran, Lebanon, Armenia etc.? The centers of the struggle were outside the US i.e. Iran, Lebanon, France, Greece, London - mainly Armenian students from Iran and Armenians from Cyprus - etc.

Incidentally, I'm not talking about social/benevolent organizations. As far as social organizations are concerned, I think the AGBU and various other similar organizations deserve a lot of credit. What I'm talking about is 'serious' politics, hard politics, international diplomacy, nationalism, and armed resistance. The ARF has been the only diasporan organization that has represented Armenians within the aforementioned parameters. Thus, it is quite easy to criticize those who have been at the forefront of our modern history. It's always difficult being on the main performance stage, there will always be worthless critics who have not done much by themselves but they feel the need to criticize.

LOL What are you talking about? I explicitly said:
"1. Humiliated, ostracized, physically threatened all young Armenians - including some Dashnaks - who dared to believe in the Hay Tad to the point that forced those young Armenians and organizations to go underground"
LOL It's even in bold!!!

Yet, I would still expect you to tell me where have all the 'others' been all these years. By the way, have there been "others" in the diaspora, besides the long extinct Hnchaks?

As an example, do you think that the recognition of the Armenian Genocide in France was achieved thanks to efforts by the ARF? Wrong, it was achieved despite all efforts by the ARF to destroy and ostracize all the pro-Hay Tad individuals and organizations during the 60s-80s.
There are even individuals who currently serve in the Armenian Government who were ostracized by the ARF. It is well known that the Dashnaks used fascistic methods in the Diaspora.
What happened to the periodical "Yeridasrt Hay?" How many of the founding members of "Nouvelles d'Armenie" were harassed, threatened and/or aggressed by the ARF et.c etc.? Your problem is that you don't seem to see beyond the party propaganda lines.

The ARF joined the struggle in the 80s , probably, after they realized that
1. It gathered momentum despite them and they can't stop it, so better join the movement and, later pretend that they were the sole actors - just like you often do
2. The situation in Artsakh and Armenia was changing

Where did you pull that "record" out from, a Cracker Jack box? Talk is cheep, Siamanto.

Yes, talk is cheap and that's exactly what I was trying to tell you in a more polite manner.
I hope that you are not dumb enough to expect me to give you names or a list? What records was your ARF propaganda based upon?
LOL Do you seriously believe that only Dashnaks went to Artsakh to help? Your knowledge of the Hay Tad during the last decades seems to be quite limited to the party propaganda.

Tell me how many diaspora organizations went to 'fight' in Artsakh when Artsakh was on the verge of destruction? I'm talking about impacting the outcome of the war, not sending used clothing, or eyeglasses for elders, or milk for children, etc. Although there was a small group of Lebanese Armenian Hnchaks that went for a short period of time, the so-called "record" remains as is: From the beginning of hostilities in Artsakh, the ARF was organizing armed resistance there, much like they are currently doing in Javakhq. Thus, when the kaka hits the fan in Javakhq the ARF, as always, will be on the forefront of the resistance there much like they were in Artskah. And again, where are all the others?

Today there are no Hnckas in sight, they are a thing of the past. Ramgavars of the diaspora are a pathetic joke when it comes to hard politics and armed resistance. The Armenian Assembly is serving Neocon agendas. So, who else is there, Siamanto? Disgruntled individuals like you, with a lack of understanding and perception, who also happen to have psychological baggage pertaining the ARF, will always find faults with the less than perfect, yet magnificent, organization in question. You know why, because its easy to sit back do nothing and criticize the mistakes of those who are attempting to impact Armenian history. The ARF, within the diaspora, even with all their faults, is the 'only' capable nationalist organization we Armenians have in existence.

However, let me say this as well. Many ARF-ers are worthless nationalists with massive egos and blunt talk. Nonetheless, the heart and soul of the party has always been the battle hardened, ideologically driven individual activists - whether they may be from Lebanon, Iran, Syria, Armenia or Artsakh.

LOL Wow! I don't care much about your emotional issues with traditional Armenian parties and organizations and I will ignore most of the above. I will limit myself to the relevant:

Many who once belonged to organizations who were harassed by the ARF - the ASALA is a known such organization and many preceded the ASALA. Also, individuals who were politically close to those organizations.

Who's feet have the ARF begged at? Who are you comparing the ARF to? Who in the diaspora has impacted Armenian politics as much as the ARF? Who in the diaspora has impacted Artskah (and Javakhq) so directly? What are you even talking about?! The following is an essay I recently wrote about the ARF. I suggest you read it and contemplate it. Or better yet, go and get involved with serious ARF-ers and then come back to me. When I say "serious" ARF-ers, I'm talking about those who are serious/active party members and not those who 'think' they are ARF-ers.

Read again my previous post. Have you missed the part with the pro-Zionist opportunistic policies and collaboration with free masons?
What's the relevance of the following propaganda article? It does not exclude the fact that they tried to kill all burgeoning pro-Hay Tad movements among young Armenians, including physical aggressions. It's no secret that the Dashnaks used fascistic methods in the Diaspora.

For better or for worst, the ARF has been the only Armenian political organization within the diaspora that has been on the very forefront of Armenian politics. Armenian political history for the last 100+ years have been for the most part written by the ARF. As a result, it is quite natural that they have had many mistakes - as well as having many successes. In the enormous complexities of the 20th century, it is quite natural that they have had many corrupt individuals within their ranks as well as having numerous historic figures. And there is a vast difference between 'collaborating' with certain entities with nationalistic intentions (whether it has been right or wrong, as in the case of their wrongful agreement in 1908 with the Young Turks, is another question) and 'begging' at the feet of superpowers.

How is the above relevant to the point that I've made? My focus was Hay Tad during the decades. LOL You seem to mix and confuse everything.

Nonetheless, I ask again, who are you comparing them to in the diaspora? The non-existent Hnchaks? The AGBU? The Ramgavars? The Armenian Assembly? Who are you comparing them to?! Your less-than insightful comments about the ARF proves without a doubt that you know next to nothing about the organization in question. Nevertheless, I had simply made mild passing 'reference' to them in my comments about Russian-Armenians.

I believe that the answer to your question is in my previous post. A little bit of focus please; I really don't care much about your emotional issue with other Armenian organizations and, as I've explained above, I'm party agnostic.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Maneuvers to Outflank US



Peace Mission 2007 gets underway to become the SCO's largest military drill. Ge Zhenfeng (second left), deputy chief of general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army and Vladimir Moltenskoi (right), deputy commander-in-chief of Russian land forces, talk about the on-going Sino-Russia joint military exercise at a meeting in Qingdao in eastern China's Shandong province August 20, 2005.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) launches military exercises in Russia’s Chelyabinsk Region and China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region on Thursday. The maneuvers are designed to counter an uprising reminiscent of bloodshed in Uzbekistan in 2005 and aimed to show that Eurasia’s east has a powerful military and political alliance whose members are ready to close ranks in any situation. SCO leaders including Russian President Vladimir Putin are to visit a training range in Chebarkul for the final stage of the drills.

The Peace Mission 2007 exercises get underway on Thursday to become the organization’s largest military drill. All member countries, Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, are sending its troops for the drills. The previous maneuvers took place in August 2005 in the Shandong Peninsula in China but involved only Russian and Chinese soldiers. Beijing organized the Shangdong exercises clearly with an eye back to the Tulip Revolution in Kyrgyzstan. Russia and China were to fight with imaginary extremists who were attempting to cease power in a neighboring country. The drills took place on the coast and looked like a landing onto a large island such as Taiwan.

Kommersant sources say that this time the exercises’ concept came from Russia. Deputy Prime Minister and then Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov was the first to voice the initiative last April in Beijing at a meeting of the SCO’s defense policy chiefs. Russian military drafted a plan for the maneuvers based on developments in Uzbekistan’s Andizhan in 2005 when authorities violently suppressed an opposition uprising. Officials say that the exercises would see a group of terrorists capturing a town with SCO forces, warplanes and artillery eliminating the insurgents and freeing the town. After that, Russia’s plenipotentiary officers will be arresting surviving terrorists. The exercises’ press center confirmed that drafters of the drills’ scenario largely relied on Andizhan developments.

The maneuvers are to begin with staff exercises in China’s Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region which has long been a battlefield between Chinese authorities and Uyghur separatists. China’s experience in Xinjiang underlay the organization’s declaration of a need to fight the so-called “three evils” – separatism, terrorism and extremism. The parties are going to discuss an action plan for the operation with Russian Colonel-General Vladimir Moltensky and his Chinese counterpart at the helm. The maneuvers will then move to the Chebarkul training range in Chelyabinsk Region where first SCO soldiers gathered on July 27.

Peace Mission 2007 will involve 4,700 soldiers of Russian 34th infantry division and 76th Air Force division, Mi-8, Mi-24 and Mi-28N helicopters and Su-25 fighters. 2,000 Russian soldiers are to take part in the drills with other backing the operation. China is sending 1,700 soldiers, G-9 and Mi-17 helicopters as well as G-7A fighters. Kazakhstan and Tajikistan are supplying air assault companies while Kyrgyzstan is sending an air assault platoon. Uzbekistan has not sent its soldiers but Uzbek officers will be taking part in staff exercises and organizing the maneuvers. The drills will involve more than 6,500 soldiers and 2,000 military hardware with Russia and China supplying the bulk of it. The drills’ organizers make no secret of the fact that Moscow and Beijing are dominating Peace Mission. The training camp is decorated with posters showing a firm handshake of Russian and Chinese flags. All signs in the camp are only in Russian and Chinese.

Russia took on almost all expenses on the maneuvers’ organization. The Russian Defense Ministry says they cost it more than 2 billion rubles. The money renovated Chebarkul, creating new and restoring old infrastructure. Chelyabinsk Region Governor Pyotr Sumin earmarked an additional 64 million rubles to these ends. The organizers were evidently anxious to please Chinese soldiers. Beijing’s military were greeted with a traditional bread and salt welcome ceremony and put up in four-bed rooms. All Chinese quarters have TV sets with Chinese channels and DVD players in them. The Russian Defense Minister built the biggest-ever press center in the Russian army to cover the exercises.

The generosity is no surprising. Peace Mission 2007 is essentially part of a plan to turn the SCO into a Central Asian military and political bloc to protect Russia’s interests and counter a growing influence of the United States in the region. The same task is to be voiced at the August 14 summit in Kyrgyzstan’s Bishkek which will bring together all SCO leaders. June meetings of SCO foreign and defense policy chiefs have shown that Moscow would seek support of its allies to counter Washington in issues ranging from the proposed U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe to expelling the U.S. military base from the Manas airport in Kyrgyzstan. Vladimir Putin and his counterparts are to fly right from Bishkek to Chebarkul for the final stage of Peace Mission 2007 to demonstrate that the SCO has the resources and power to “fight against aggressive plans”.

Source: http://www.kommersant.com/p793960/r_...hai_Maneuvers/

Growing Ties between China and Russia



Members of the six-nation Shanghai Cooperation Organization, or SCO, begin military exercises August 9. The nine-day drill, dubbed Peace Mission 2007, involves the military forces of China, four central Asian countries [Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan], and Russia, the host nation. The dominant SCO forces are those of Russia and China, which are also expanding their cultural and economic links. VOA Moscow Correspondent Peter Fedynsky reports annual trade has already reached $40 billion. 2007 is the year of China in Russia. The yearlong focus on Russia's large Asian neighbor includes a Chinese art exhibit this month at the State Museum of Eastern Art in Moscow. 2006 was the year of Russia in China. But Sino-Russian relations date back nearly four centuries to a time when the emperors of China, according to the exhibit brochure, considered trade demeaning and viewed foreigners as barbarians. Therefore, they allowed commerce only on the border.

Today, however, trade is a top priority. Chinese President Hu Jintao has made this clear. "We should speed up and multiply cooperation in energy resources. We should take positive steps in the joint exploitation of petroleum, gas and forestry resources,” he said. “We should try to move the cooperation style from a pure resources trade to one with more joint production." President Hu spoke last year in Beijing during a visit by his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin.

China has been importing mostly raw material from Russia, such as oil and lumber, and exporting consumer goods. Annual trade has grown over the past ten years from about $7 billion to nearly $40 billion. Volume is expected to increase with the completion of new oil pipelines from Russia to China. One of Russia's leading China experts, Vladimir Myasnikov, says both countries are developing other trade opportunities. "Energy-related machine building. We're building a nuclear power plant. We provide turbines. We're cooperating in the field of space exploration. High tech should lead the way to a substantial increase in bilateral trade." In recent years Russia and China have held joint military exercises. The Chinese are also the biggest foreign buyers of Russian weaponry. Some analysts say Russia is seeking to strengthen military ties with China, because of worsening ties with the United States and NATO.

But First Deputy Premier Sergei Ivanov rejected the charge two years ago in his former capacity as Defense Minister. "We are not creating any military blocs. As was already said, those exercises are not aimed against any other state." The chief of China's general military staff, Liang Guanglie agrees. "This exercise follows the UN charter's goals and regulations, it does not target any third party, does not refer to the interests of any third party, neither does it intimidate any country." Both countries will conduct military exercises again this week along with other members of the six-nation Shanghai Cooperation Organization. The SCO is scheduled to a summit meeting in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan on August 16th.

Source: http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-08-08-voa45.cfm

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

The Almighty Ruble



The ruble got no respect. During the cold war, it symbolized the backward Soviet economy. After the U.S.S.R. collapsed, it was an avatar of instability. Even plumbers in Moscow often preferred to be paid in bottles of vodka rather than rubles — the bottles did not lose their value. No more. Lifted by high oil prices and a wave of foreign investment, the once humble ruble is showing its muscle, and fueling a consumer boom.

After gaining 20 percent in value against the dollar in the last few years, the ruble is even starting to displace the greenback as Russians’ currency of choice for both saving and spending. As the ruble increases in value — not just against the dollar, but against brawnier currencies, too, like the euro — imported goods are becoming cheaper for Russian consumers. Now ruble notes, once handed over by the fistful for a loaf of bread, are being used to purchase Mercedeses, flat-screen televisions and European beach vacations.

Of course, the party could be short-lived. Russia takes in roughly $530 million a day from oil, its most lucrative export. If the price of oil declines, so will the ruble. And even if the price of oil does not fall, an oil-fueled boom brings dangers of its own. In many countries, an over-reliance on petrodollars has led to underinvestment in businesses outside oil and gas, and a subsequent withering of other domestic industries. To deal with such downsides of the ruble’s rise, Russia is salting away oil money in a rainy day fund, called the Stabilization Fund, which holds more than $120 billion. In January, Moscow will split it into two funds: the Reserve Fund and the Fund of National Prosperity, the latter intended for state investments.

Together with the Central Bank of Russia’s foreign reserves, Russian authorities have a currency reserve of $413 billion, the largest per capita foreign currency reserve of any major economy, including China’s. In an oil downturn, authorities could spend that reserve to protect the ruble. In the meantime, the reserve adds an aura of stability to the economy for investors. “Excluding a couple of oil countries where the money belongs to the local ruling family, which is something different, Russia has surpassed all the newly industrializing Asian countries,” in foreign currency reserves, Kenneth S. Rogoff, an economics professor at Harvard, said in a telephone interview.

Analysts say Russia’s underlying fundamentals are good, too.

First, oil exports are not the sole source of the ruble’s rise. That was the case before 2007, but now foreign investment has become a significant factor. Private capital flows into Russia increased roughly 360 percent in the first six months of this year, compared with the same period last year. Only about 30 percent is attributable to oil and other extractive industries, according to the State Statistics Committee. Analysts also point to what they call Russia’s sound macroeconomics. President Vladimir V. Putin’s government has managed inflation, though certainly not eliminated it. And through its tight control over politics and society, the regime has kept demands for social spending in check — a leadership approach reminiscent of the authoritarian “Asian model” of economic development.

But economists also say a long-term cycle of economic depression and recovery is bolstering the ruble, at least for now. Starting in 1990, the year the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia’s economy contracted by as much as 40 percent. This year, for the first time since, Russia’s gross domestic product returned to 1990 levels: factories, oil pipelines, roads, ports and other facilities that once were idled are operating near full capacity. In the decade from January 1993 to Dec. 31, 2002, the ruble’s lowest point, the dollar appreciated 7,664 percent against the ruble, rising to 31.96 rubles to the dollar. On Tuesday, one dollar bought 25.47 rubles, a 20 percent appreciation for the ruble.

Even more important, as measured by purchasing power parity, a gauge of a currency’s value based on the goods it can buy, a dollar should buy roughly 15 rubles today, according to a report Merrill Lynch issued in July. By that measure, the ruble remains the world’s second-most undervalued major currency, behind only the Chinese yuan, whose value has given policy makers in Washington headaches. Indeed, the ruble would be even more valuable today if not for the Russian central bank intervening to keep it from rising more. Through much of the 1990s, Russia suffered the opposite problem. Then the ruble, shunned by locals and tourists alike, was propped up by Western lending. It collapsed in 1998, on the heels of the Asian economic crisis. Russians’ life savings evaporated and poverty became widespread. In just one example, the theft of manhole covers became a major problem. Russians were stealing them to sell for scrap metal.

All that is different now. The current consumer boom has sparked renewed interest in Russia from companies like Wal-Mart and Starbucks. Indeed, shares in grocery stores, electronic retailers and other consumer-sector companies are outperforming Russian oil companies on the Moscow stock exchange. Russian banks offer accounts in rubles, dollars or euros. Of the three, ruble accounts are attracting the most funds. Ruble-denominated personal savings accounts rose 6.8 percent in the first quarter of 2007, while foreign currency accounts were level, according to a report by Goldman Sachs.

That has led to some, perhaps predictable, gloating. Recently, a pro-Kremlin youth group staged a mock panhandling to benefit the United States currency. They held out hats for passers-by to make donations — “raising money for the dollar’s ticket back home,” their signs read. But there are limits as to how far a currency can carry a country. Real economic growth, economists say, will depend on continuing foreign investment. Without it, Russian consumption of imported goods will outpace earnings from oil by 2010, according to Russia’s finance minister, Aleksei L. Kudrin.

If that happens, Russia’s economy will depend on foreign investment to maintain the strong ruble and the rising living standards associated with it — much as the United States does, but without the same record of stability. Last summer, authorities eliminated all restrictions on ruble trading, making the currency fully convertible and easing the way for the capital inflow needed to meet the demand. In the first six months of this year, net private capital inflow into Russia was $67.1 billion — more than during the entire first decade after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the same period last year, capital inflow was $14.5 billion.

While threats of nationalization persist in the oil sector, investors have largely decided that they are acceptable considering the money to be made. In another recent sign of the ruble’s strength, a particularly Russian enterprise has just become more expensive. Russia has raised the price for a tourist flight to the International Space Station aboard a Russian rocket. What cost Dennis A. Tito, the first space tourist, $20 million in 2001, this year cost the former Microsoft executive Charles Simonyi $25 million. Citing the strong ruble, Russian space agency officials say they will increase that fee to $30 million.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/bu...=worldbusiness

Belarus clears gas debt to Russia



Belarus has paid off its debt for gas to Russian gas giant Gazprom, Russian news agencies reported Wednesday. Belarussian gas pipeline company Beltransgaz paid Gazprom 56.5 million U.S. dollars Wednesday as the last installment of its 456.16-million-dollar debt for gas supplies in the first half of 2007, a source in the Belarussian Energy Ministry was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying.

"Beltransgaz paid Gazprom 56.5 million dollars this morning and has thus completely paid off its debt for gas supplies to Belarus in the first half of the year," the source said. Gazprom confirmed that Beltransgaz has paid its debt in full for gas supplies in the first half of 2007. "Gazprom hopes that the situation with the Belarus' gas debt will not recur," the Russian company's press secretary Sergei Kupriyanov was quoted by the Itar-Tass news agency as saying.

Earlier, Belarussian officials said the country had paid in full its gas debt to Gazprom and pledged to pay 100 percent for Russian gas exports as of August. "Today the republic's finance ministry made the last payment for gas and Gazprom should receive the money," Andrei Zhukov, an aide of the Belarussian energy minister, was quoted by Itar-Tass as saying. "We had to transfer the payments before Aug. 10 and we did this," he said. The transaction was made in compliance with a schedule between Beltransgaz and Gazprom. "After Belarus paid off its debt, it will ensure 100-percent payment for gas supplies from Gazprom as of August," Belarussian First Deputy Prime Minister Vladimir Semashko said.

Last Wednesday, Gazprom said it would cut gas supplies to Belarus by 45 percent as of Aug. 3 due to the debt and lack of payment guarantees. Belarussian President Alexander Lukashenko then pledged that the debt would be paid over the coming days, saying the country's gold and currency reserves, a state credit from Venezuela and a credit from Western banks would be used to pay the debt. Last Friday, Gazprom delayed a reduction in supplies to Belarus by one week after it confirmed that Belarus had paid a 190-million-dollar installment toward its debt.

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_6498305.htm

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

The following information is essentially why the West is livid. Nationalist forces working within the interior apparatus of the Russian Federation, namely the FSB (successor of the KGB), muscled their way into power by forcing Yeltsin to allow Putin to succeed him. It is rumored that Yeltsin was promised he would not be brought up to corruption charges and worst, treason charges, if he did not resist the nationalistic move. Soon after Putin's rise to power, official Moscow enthusiastically embarked on a 'cleansing' campaign to essentially rid the Russian Federations of its serious oligarch problem which in essence was a J-e-wish problem. And that, in particular, has made Putin a demon in the eyes of those in power in Washington DC and their subordinates worldwide.

Armenian

Russian state oil company wins another Yukos auction



Rosneft, the state-controlled Russian oil company, on Wednesday won another auction of the remains of the bankrupt oil business Yukos, buying its important transportation assets, including those Yukos used for exports to China. Rosneft's only rival at the auction, a previously unknown company called Benefit, pulled out of the bidding after Rosneft's first bid in a development similar to many previous auctions at which Rosneft bought most of the assets of Yukos. Rosneft paid $729 million, just above the starting price, for the lot that included the main transport units of Yukos - East Asia Transit and Yukos-Transservice.

Yukos-Transservice owns long-term leasing contracts on around 7,000 railroad cars and short-term leasing agreements on 5,000 railroad cars. The unit also had "considerable amounts of cash" on its accounts, Rosneft said. New rail cars cost $30,000 to $35,000 while a second-hand rail car costs around $20,000 to $25,000 depending on its condition, according to people in the industry. East Asia Transit has the right to deliver oil to China via Mongolia, and 42 tank-cars for transportation of refined products. The lot also included a number of producing and injection wells at the Priobskoye field, as well as pumping stations, pipelines and other production facilities, Rosneft said.

Rosneft has bought most of the assets of Yukos since Russia started selling them a year ago to recover over $30 billion of back-tax debt. The assets include three of the former core production units of Yukos and five refineries, which made Rosneft Russia's largest oil producer and refiner. Former Yukos shareholders have portrayed the destruction of Russia's former leading oil company as a Kremlin vendetta against Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the Yukos founder who had political ambitions. Khodorkovsky is now serving an eight-year prison term in Siberia on criminal convictions including fraud. Russia will hold an auction next Wednesday to sell foreign assets of Yukos, which include its 49-percent stake in the Slovak pipeline monopoly Transpetrol.

Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/...ness/yukos.php

Ex-Yukos executive jailed for life - The former Yukos chief executive is also in prison.


Mikhail Khodorkovsky Former Yukos Executive Once
Russia's Richest Man Now Serving a Life Sentence

The former head of security at Yukos, the bankrupt Russian oil company, has lost his appeal against murder convictions. The Moscow city court sentenced Alexei Pichugin to life in prison, on top of a 20-year sentence he is now serving for two other murders. Pichugin's lawyers said on Monday that he was the victim of a political campaign against associates of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the founder of Yukos, who was jailed in 2005. Georgy Kaganer, the defence lawyer, said: "The sentence is not just. All the evidence has been turned on its head." Pichugin has insisted he is innocent. He was originally sentenced last August for the killings, but prosecutors appealed against that ruling in an attempt to win the life sentence. In Russia, a longer term replaces a shorter one.

Political ambitions

Judge Pyotr Shtunder said as he read the verdict: "The court established that on January 21, 1998 Pichugin arranged the killing of Valentina Korneyeva, the director of commercial firm Feniks." The judge also said Pichugin murdered the mayor of a Siberian oil town and the driver of an oil businessman as well as trying to kill two others. Pichugin was convicted in 2005 and sentenced to 20 years for murdering a provincial businessman and his wife. Supporters of Khodorkovsky, who himself is serving an eight-year term in a Siberian farm for fraud and tax evasion, say he is being punished by the Kremlin for his political ambitions along with other people connected to Yukos.

Source: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...CE1CC655BD.htm

Kremlin Targets J-e-wish Tycoons In War On Critics

LONDON - Oil titan Mikhail Khodorkovsky is not the first xxx who has risen to become Russia's richest citizen. Before him Roman Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky had their stints, while Vladimir Gusinsky got close. In Russia, however, life at the top is not all that it's cracked up to be. Berezovsky and Gusinsky are now in exile, facing prosecution if they ever return to Russia, while Abramovich, having cashed in much of his Russian oil and metals empire and bought a British soccer team, is a frequent guest of Berezovsky in London.

As for Khodorkovsky, he's in jail. Russian authorities arrested Khodorkovsky at gunpoint October 25 on a snowy Siberian runway. He is being held on charges ranging from tax evasion to fraud. The charges concern post-communist privatization deals for the companies that went on to become Yukos, the oil behemoth that Khodorkovsky founded and recently merged with Sibneft, another firm that he bought from Abramovich. If a court so decides, both companies could end up back in state hands. The crackdown caused a sharp drop in Russia's stock market this week and has prompted warnings that foreign investors might back away.

It's not only the economy that took a hit, though. Russian antisemites are in trouble, too. Their favorite bogeymen, the xxxish "oligarchs," as the country's tycoons are called, are becoming an endangered species. In the eyes of most Russians, the oligarchs are clearly guilty, of theft and corruption in the best case, and probably a lot worse. That much of their wealth is ill-gotten, no one really doubts. And what is to be done? Most Russians would answer: Lock 'em up, ship 'em out. There's plenty of room in Siberia.

This, of course, is not what's happening. As Khodorkovsky sits in Moscow's most notoriously disease-ridden prison, most non-xxxish oligarchs are still riding high, even if a few are not likely to step foot in Russia again. The metals empire of Vladimir Potanin - who, along with Berezovsky, most brazenly boasted of his influence over Boris Yeltsin's Kremlin - is thriving, as are Vagit Alekperov's oil wells. The list of safe oligarchs goes on, but there are only a few xxxs still on it: Mikhail Fridman of Alfa Bank, for example. What are we to make of the fact that almost all of the major oligarchs in jail or exile are xxxs, while almost all of those still in business are not? The answer is not as obvious as it may seem.

Vladimir Putin, whatever else he may be, is not an antisemite. He's too practical for that, and too regularly appears at synagogues. Indeed, there is something beyond ethnicity that joins Khodorkovsky with Berezovsky and Gusinsky: political activism. Gusinsky ran the only media company that was openly critical of Putin. Berezovsky, after a falling out with Putin, whose presidential campaign he financed, declared himself in opposition and threw money at any political party that would take it. Khodorkovsky, once he was secure in his wealth, announced he was financing two liberal parties opposed to Putin. Still, even if the cause of their travails are their politics and not their xxxishness, their ethnic background hardly goes unnoticed.

"The Kremlin went after Khodorkovsky because he became an opponent, and as we know, the Kremlin doesn't play nicely with its opponents," Gennady Zyuganov, leader of the opposition Communist Party, said in a recent interview. "But there are a lot of other people who should be in jail. After all, what good is it to the Russian man if the wealth is simply transferred from a Berezovsky to an Abramovich?" Zyuganov's words were carefully chosen. In the Russian language, there are two words for Russian. The one most often used in politics, rossiisky, is a civic definition, meaning any citizen of the Russian Federation. But Zyuganov used the word russky, an ethnic definition that encompasses the majority of the population, but not Berezovsky, not Abramovich and not Khodorkovsky.

Moreover, in their war on Putin's political enemies, the Kremlin and its allies have often played to the deep reservoir of anti-xxxish feeling that exists in Russian society. One loaded phrase that has cropped up in the Khodorkovsky affairs - in the press, as well as in comments by the prosecutors - is "economic crimes." The words sound banal enough, but students of Soviet history will recall it as one of two special charges, along with Zionism, reserved especially for xxxs by communist prosecutors. It is, of course, possible that most Russians nowadays do not really remember such connotations. But Putin certainly does; after all, investigating economic crimes is something he would have been trained in back in his days at the KGB.

The Khodorkovsky affair - like those of Berezovsky and Gusinsky before him, and whoever will follow - does not represent a new wave of Russian antisemitism. It represents a very old wave, and it accompanies the revival of old modes of action that may have been buried but never died. Russia under Putin has now seen almost as many rigged elections as under Brezhnev and more repression of the press than Gorbachev or Yeltsin could ever stomach. Is it any wonder that political imprisonment would be next? The Soviet Union, it was once declared, would be national in form, socialist in content. It was a nicer way of saying divide and conquer, a tried and tested way of ruling unruly populations. These tactics are back, and that's not good for anyone - especially not Russia's xxxs.

Source: http://www.rense.com/general44/won.htm

[TomServo]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

6. Encouraged the migration of Armenians from the Middle East to the US...maybe, to join "eating Luleh kabobs in Church picnics?"

I had heard that those ARF members who migrated from Middle Eastern countries (or at least from Lebanon) during the Lebanese Civil War immediately lost their membership. But they were all given another chance during or after the ARF's 100 anniversary celebration.

[Siamanto]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

6. Encouraged the migration of Armenians from the Middle East to the US...maybe, to join "eating Luleh kabobs in Church picnics?"

I had heard that those ARF members who migrated from Middle Eastern countries (or at least from Lebanon) during the Lebanese Civil War immediately lost their membership. But they were all given another chance during or after the ARF's 100 anniversary celebration.

I find your universal statement - i.e. equivalent to "all ARF members who..." - a bit odd because I have known many "ARF members who migrated from Middle Eastern countries (or at least from Lebanon)" who continued to be active members of the ARF - including high ranked members. Apparently, it was not a policy.

Honestly, why would an organization refuse membership to existing members when, such as the ARF, in real and urgent need for new members? Do you think that ARF leaders were dumb enough to believe that those who have fled the war in Lebanon would have valued their ARF membership more than the lives and future of their family members? It sounds a bit unrealistic???

I don't know what you exactly mean and what is the basis of your statement, so I will refrain from further comments.


P.S. The migration of Armenians to the US that I have mentioned happened before the war in Lebanon and was decried in Armenian publications that the ARF ostracized, harassed and aggressed the writers, publishers and readers.