The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Just wondering.

Irakli surfaces in Germany and asks for the overthrow of Saakashvili? This is very significant. Why would Berlin/Washington DC allow it? Could it be that the West has negotiated the fate of the Tbilisi government with Moscow and as a result has decided that it will sacrifice Saakashvili, perhaps for some concession regarding Iran? This can explain the reason why Saakashvili has been making overly childish pro-west and anti-Russian comments lately. Maybe he sees that his position in Tbilisi is weak and he wants to over impress his bosses.

[crusader1492]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Just wondering.

Irakli surfaces in Germany and asks for the overthrow of Saakashvili? This is very significant. Why would Berlin/Washington DC allow it? Could it be that the West has negotiated the faith of the Tbilisi government with Moscow and as a result has decided that it will sacrifice Saakashvili, perhaps for some concession regarding Iran? This can explain the reason why Saakashvili has been making overly childish pro-west and anti-Russian comments lately. Maybe he sees that his position in Tbilisi is weak and he wants to over impress his bosses.

Even if Saakashvili is forced out, aren't all the other potential leaders vehemently anti-Russian too?
In other words, how would replacing one anti-Russian president with another anti-Russian president benefit Russia?

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Even if Saakashvili is forced out, aren't all the other potential leaders vehemently anti-Russian too? In other words, how would replacing one anti-Russian president with another anti-Russian president benefit Russia?

Good point. In real politics, however, you can be "anti" anything you want as long as you don't turn your rhetoric into action. Saakashvili had turned his anti-Russian rhetoric into action and has been threatening to do more of it. From Moscow's perspective: As long as a Georgian leader stays away from NATO, does not attempt to host American bases, does not support anti-Russian terrorists in Chechnya and elsewhere, and does not attempt to militarily solve the Abkhazia problem - he/she would be allowed to "hate" Russia for an eternity. All I am saying is, perhaps due to all the crap the US has gotten itself into in Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran, they may have abandoned some of their overly ambitious plans, like the ones in the Caucasus. Simply put, I would not be surprised if Putin made a deal with the West regarding this matter. If so, I would be very interested to know what Putin gave up for the deal.

[karoaper]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I've been reading around some Russian forums and according to them, ths Okruashvilli guy is even worse than Saakashvilli. He's much more anti-Russian and pro-West. In fact, it's possible that Washington is upgrading Saakashvilli to Saakashvilli 2.0 (aka Okruashvilli).

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I've been reading around some Russian forums and according to them, ths Okruashvilli guy is even worse than Saakashvilli. He's much more anti-Russian and pro-West. In fact, it's possible that Washington is upgrading Saakashvilli to Saakashvilli 2.0 (aka Okruashvilli).

If so, it would kind of make sense. That would explain how Okruashvili surfaced in Germany. That would also explain why Saakashvili has been making a lot of childish comments lately. However, how much more anti-Russian and pro-West can one get than Saakashvili? I mean what is Irakli going to do, propose to become the fifty-first state of America? Do you know what the Russians you referred to are basing their opinions on?

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russia parliament votes to suspend arms treaty

Russia's parliament voted unanimously on Wednesday to suspend a key arms treaty limiting conventional forces in Europe, saying the United States and NATO were using the pact to undermine Russia's defenses. Ignoring appeals from the United States, the Duma (lower house of parliament) approved 418-0 a law allowing Moscow to stop complying with the Conventional Forces in Europe (CFE) Treaty, seen by the West as a cornerstone of European security. The suspension, ordered by President Vladimir Putin as part of a wave of increasingly aggressive moves against the West ahead of elections, will take effect on December 12.

Russia's top general Yuri Baluyevsky said the CFE treaty, which limits the number of heavy conventional weapons deployed and stored between the Atlantic and Russia's Ural mountains, unfairly penalized Moscow. "The current treaty fully suits the United States and NATO," Baluyevsky, the chief of general staff, told parliament. "The treaty allows, practically without any limits, the realization of the strategy for NATO to move eastwards, carrying out the reconfiguration of the U.S.'s military presence in Europe and for constant monitoring of the composition and state of Russia's military in the European zone." Russia had no plans to immediately deploy more forces in the West and in the Caucasus, he added, though it reserved the right to do so.

Russia's move comes after months of sparring with the United States and European Union over plans for a missile defense shield and proposed independence for Serbia's Kosovo province. Putin, who has sought to restore the Kremlin's international clout after the chaos which accompanied the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union, gave formal 150-day notice in July about suspending the treaty. The United States, Europe and NATO have all urged Russia not to scrap the treaty, saying it is a vital guarantor of stability in post Cold War Europe. But Moscow has been adamant it will suspend the pact unless NATO agrees to major changes. NATO did not offer immediate comment on the Duma vote but one official said the alliance's position remained unchanged. "We do not want to see any suspension on the treaty and there are intensive consultations continuing among the parties," said the official, who requested anonymity.

MOSCOW "NOT HEARD"

Russian diplomats said Moscow was trying to send a message to the West that the treaty needed to be reworked and ratified but that the West had "not heard" Moscow's concerns. "Russia's actions do not have an aggressive or destructive character -- they are directed not to destroy the system of current agreements but to attract attention of our partners to our concerns," said Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Kislyak. "We are not trying to bring any damage to arms control but to give an impulse to the resumption of a workable treaty," Kislyak, who deals with U.S. relations, told parliament.

The debate in parliament was full of references to how Russia had been "deceived" by the United States and NATO. The law approved on Wednesday -- just three clauses long -- gives Putin a free hand to suspend Russia's participation in the treaty or to restore it at any time in the future. The draft still needs final approval from the upper house of parliament and from Putin before becoming law but these steps are regarded as formalities. The CFE treaty, signed in 1990 and updated in 1999, limits the number of tanks, combat aircraft and heavy artillery which can be deployed or stored in the vast area stretching from the Atlantic to Russia's Ural mountains.

Western partners have refused to ratify an amended version of the pact until Russia pulls its forces out of Georgia and Moldova, as it promised in 1999 when the treaty was reviewed. Russian forces are being withdrawn from Georgia. But Russia has so far been reluctant to pull out peacekeepers from Moldova's breakaway province of Transdniestria. Russia, unhappy about NATO's expansion eastwards into territory formerly occupied by the Soviet-led Warsaw Pact, says U.S. plans to open bases for several thousand soldiers in Romania and Bulgaria this year are in breach of the CFE. NATO officials insist that the bases are not intended as permanent and thus cannot be seen as a breach.

Source: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/wo...70e6ee&k=53045

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Georgia says Russia stirring civil unrest

Riot police in Tbilisi today employed extensive force today in the face of protests against the country’s pro-Western government

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili on Wednesday accused Russian special services of stirring civil unrest in his nation. "Georgia is facing a very serious threat of unrest," Saakashvili said during a televised address to the nation that was carried live in Russia and translated into Russian. "High ranking officials in Russian special services are behind this," he said, adding he had evidence for his claims.

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/world...81297320071107

Georgian Police Break Up Protests


Protesters outside the parliament in Tbilisi today were sprayed with a water cannon

Riot police officers used tear gas and a water cannon today to clear thousands of demonstrators from the streets of Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia, employing extensive force in the face of protests against the country’s pro-Western government. There were no immediate reports of the extent of injuries. But people who fled the clouds of tear gas reported that police officers had rushed through Rustaveli Avenue, the city’s main boulevard, and had beaten demonstrators who had not managed to escape. Many protesters were seen bleeding. The police also scuffled with journalists covering the confrontation and confiscated or shattered some of their equipment, witnesses said.

The police sweep, while it cleared the avenue at least temporarily, underlined the intensity of the challenge to the government and reputation of President Mikheil Saakashvili, who rose to power with peaceful protests in 2003 and has cast himself as the most democratic ruler in the Caucasus. The opposition has accused him of running a centralized government intolerant of dissent and undermined by high-level corruption and police and prosecutorial abuse. Opposition leaders labeled the police action a political crackdown and mass punishment, and called for Georgians to gather in renewed protests. Georgia is a small and tightly networked nation. The possibility of escalation, or further clashes and police action, seemed high.

“The authorities have used weapons against the peaceful demonstrators, and therefore the authorities will get what they deserve from the people,” Kakka Kukava, an opposition member of Parliament, told journalists, according to the Interfax news agency. The government defended its actions. It said that protesters were not entirely peaceful and that the riot police were necessary after protesters forcibly pushed though police lines. The government and witnesses said that police lines had been briefly established in the morning to restore traffic blocked by the demonstration, which was in its sixth day.

“What happened this morning was very regrettable,” said Giga Bokeria, a prominent member of Parliament and close ally of President Saakashvili, said by telephone. He accused opposition leaders of urging the protesters to rush the police, which he said triggered the violence and bedlam that ensued. “They behaved very badly,” he said. “They just openly called for violence.” Reached by telephone shortly after the police action, Sozar Subari, the country’s human rights ombudsman, denounced the government’s use of force and suggested that Georgia, which had undertaken many reforms since 2003, had stepped backward.

“Georgia is now the same as Lukashenko’s Belarus,” he said, referring to a post-Soviet state that much of the West has labeled a dictatorship. A woman could be heard screaming in the background. Mr. Subari he said he had to go. The United States, the Saakashvili government’s principal foreign sponsor and mentor, had no immediate response. Sergey V. Lavrov, the foreign minister of Russia, which ruled Georgia during Soviet times, issued a statement similar to those that the Kremlin has issued during police crackdowns, some of them intensely violent or even lethal, in Uzbekistan, Belarus and Azerbaijan. “This is a domestic issue for Georgia and its people,” the statement said.

The protesters, who first gathered in front of Parliament on Friday, had initially demanded early Parliamentary elections and other measures that might relax what they regard as the government’s centralized hold on power and allow a degree of political plurality. But after Mr. Saakashvili ignored the demonstrators for nearly three days, and then publicly belittled their leaders on national television and said they were doing the bidding of the Kremlin, the demonstrators roundly demanded that he resign. The Kremlin is highly unpopular in Georgia after decades of Soviet occupation and for its open support since the early 1990s for separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, two regions out the Georgian government’s control.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/wo...html?ref=world

Georgia in 'state of emergency'

Georgia's president Mikhail Saakashvili has declared a state of emergency in the country following six days of demonstrations. In a televised address he blamed Russia for fuelling protests against the pro-west government in the former Soviet state. Mr Saakashvili said there had been "an attempt at a coup" and announced that the emergency state would last for two days. Three Russian diplomats have been expelled from Georgia and the country's ambassador in Moscow has been withdrawn. Earlier today riot police used tear gas and rubber bullets to break up demonstrations calling for the president to quit his post and for an early election to be held. Health ministry spokeswoman Nino Kochorashvili told the Associated Press news agency that about 360 people have sought medical assistance and more than 100 of them have remained hospitalised.

Source: http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/world/autocodes/countries/russia/georgia-in-state-emergency-$1163087.htm

Georgia declares three Russian diplomats unwelcome persons

Three Russian diplomats were declared unwelcome persons and have to leave Georgia, the Georgian Foreign Ministry announced on Wednesday. "The Russian embassy in Georgia has been given a note for transfer to the Russian Foreign Ministry," the ministry said. The note says that Russian Minister-Counsellor to Georgia Ivan Volynkin, adviser Pyotr Solomatin, and 3rd Secretary Alexander Kurenkov were declared personae non-gratae. The Georgian Foreign Ministry demanded that Russia recall these diplomats under Clause 9 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Earlier in the day, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said in a televised address to the nation that "several employees of the Russian embassy were engaged in subversive activities and espionage in Georgia. These employees of the Russian embassy will leave Georgia within days." Saakashvili accused Russian secret services of subversive actions against Georgia. "We have proof and we will make it public. We have recalled our ambassador (to Russia) and it's not a theatrical gesture," the president said. Georgia recalled its Ambassador to Russia Irakly Chubinishvili "for consultations in Tbilisi," the Georgian Foreign Ministry said. "I have heard about an alternative government (Georgia) that was created in Moscow," Saakashvili said. He said the leadership of the country "will do everything to prevent mass disturbances."

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_7029852.htm

Georgia recalls ambassador to Russia

Georgia on Wednesday recalled its ambassador to Russia, saying Moscow was behind recent political turmoil in the Caucasus nation. "Georgia's ambassador to Russia, Irakly Chubinishvili, has been recalled to Tbilisi for consultations," Georgian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Nino Kajaia told Reuters. "The events unfolding in Georgia clearly appear to be linked to Russia," she said, adding that Russia's ambassador to Georgia, Vyacheslav Kovalenko, had been summoned to the Georgian foreign ministry.

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/lates.../idUSL07847711

[Azad]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Looks like the guy on the left will soon be shipped out.
I kinda liked him being the ech he is.
I wouldn't like to see a smart one in his place.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russian army chief says U.S. aggravating Georgia’s conflicts

American interference is aggravating relations between Georgia and its two breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, the chief of the Russian General Staff said on Wednesday. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, who is pushing his country for NATO membership, enjoyed until recently Western backing in his ongoing disputes with Russia, in particular over two breakaway regions that have strong ties with Moscow. "Events in Georgia are occurring with the interference of the United States," Gen. Yury Baluyevsky said. "Who finances Georgia's $820 million military budget? Who is creating this force, which tomorrow might be used against its own people? I am not ruling this out." Baluyevsky also said that an incident involving Russian peacekeepers in Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia in late October was incited by Tbilisi. "This was a provocation, and President Saakashvili is one of the initiators of that provocation, which threatened Russian peacekeepers," Baluyevsky said. The Russian peacekeepers detained five Georgian officers in the village of Ganmukhuri in late October, saying the Georgians had threatened to open fire on them. Georgia said Russian peacekeepers attacked the police officers and beat them up. The officers were released after the Georgian president arrived in the area to intervene. Georgia has repeatedly voiced its goal of regaining control over Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which declared independence in the early 1990s. It has also accused the CIS peacekeeping force, mainly represented by Russians, of backing separatists.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071107/86979875.html

Moscow sees instability on Russia-Georgia border - Kremlin source

Moscow is concerned over the emerging instability in Georgia, as protesters continue to demonstrate in the capital Tbilisi, and believes the Georgian people deserve better. "We are really concerned by the emerging events and instability in the vicinity of our borders," a Kremlin source said on Wednesday. Russia's Foreign Ministry said Moscow would react appropriately to the expulsions of three Russian diplomats from Georgia. The Russian embassy officials were declared "personae non gratae," by the Georgian Foreign Ministry Wednesday, a Georgian diplomatic source said. "Moscow regards the latest idiocy by Georgian authorities as political irresponsible provocation. An appropriate response will be made, and Russia will remain true to its commitments regarding assisting in the settlement of the Georgian-Abkhazian and Georgian-Ossetian conflicts and the protection of Russian nationals living there," the Russian Foreign Ministry statement said. The ministry said, "The most important thing is that assessments by certain public figures in Tbilisi for using force to settle conflicts do not materialize." Russia's Foreign Ministry has urged all those who have any influence on Tbilisi to caution the Georgian leadership against taking "destructive steps." Referring to the Georgian president's accusations that Russia's special services were behind recent events in Tbilisi, the ministry said such steps were fraught with unpredictable consequences. Saakashvili's comments were made earlier on Wednesday during an address to the nation on Georgian TV. Opposition supporters have been demonstrating in Tbilisi for the past six days, demanding President Mikheil Saakashvili's resignation and early elections. Riot police used water cannons, rubber bullets and tear gas on Wednesday to disperse protesters.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/world/20071107/87062231.html

Russia to close last military base in Georgia ahead of time

Russia will evacuate its last military base in Georgia, whose capital, Tbilisi, has been swept by opposition protests, ahead of the deadline, the chief of the Russian Ground Forces said on Wednesday. "Russia plans to complete the withdrawal of the 12th Russian base in Batumi ahead of schedule," General of the Army Alexei Maslov said, adding that the closure was originally planned for 2008. A Maslov aide said the last train with military hardware and equipment will leave Batumi on November 8. "The cargo will have an aggregate weight of around 55 [metric] tons," Col. Igor Konashenkov said. He said Russia is fulfilling all its obligations under the 2006 agreement and is strictly adhering to the withdrawal schedule. Russia completed the pullout of its military garrison from the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, handing over control of its headquarters to Georgia's Defense Ministry last December, and formally handed over its military base at Akhalkalaki in southern Georgia to Tbilisi in June, ahead of the October 2007 deadline.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071107/87037401.html

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Interesting article about the fledgling arms industry in Armenia. Notice the curious commentary made by the "Washington-based security expert" Richard Giragosian (government agent) towards the end of the article.

Armenian

************************************************** **************

Armenia Keeps its Powder Dry

New munitions plant is seen as a step towards a more self-sufficient defence industry. By Gegham Vardanian in Yerevan (CRS No. 418 07-Nov-07) Armenia has started making ammunition for its armed forces, in an attempt to keep pace with other defence industries in the South Caucasus.

A munitions factory re-opened in September after a refit costing 4.7 million US dollars. The plant is owned by the Armenian firm DG Arms Cooperation, the country’s only defence manufacturer. Almost all of the country’s weaponry comes from Russia. The plant’s current capacity is 100 million bullets a year, most of which is intended for the Armenian armed forces. Partev Mushegian, director general of DG Arms, said the company intended to invest an additional 22 million dollars and increase annual output by 70 million bullets. Next year, it plans to produce flak jackets as well.

“The factory plans to move onto the international market after it has started meeting the country’s needs,” Mushegian told IWPR. He said the factory aimed to make bullets that complied with NATO standards, so that they could be sold abroad. “Our products will be exported - with the permission of the Armenian authorities - to countries that are not subject to United Nations or European Union sanctions, and that are not counter to the interests of Collective Security Treaty Organisation members,” said Mushegian, referring to the CSTO, a defence grouping of former Soviet states.

The factory was reopened following the privatisation of two companies, Neutron and Bagavan. Neutron’s factory first started making bullets in 1986 and carried on through the Nagorny Karabakh conflict. But it was unable to keep up with demand, and Armenia had to start importing ammunition. Over the past decade, production all but stopped. The re-modelled Yerevan-based plant employs 120 workers, and there are plans to open a smaller branch factory in the town of Abovian. The government has not subsidised the new plant, but says it is keen to foster a defence industry.

“We need to upgrade our factories,” Prime Minister Serzh Sarkisian said at a ceremony to mark the opening of the munitions plant. “This is directly linked to our country’s defence capability. I think that if the factory works at full capacity, our needs for a number of types of ammunition will be completely covered.” Artur Agabekian, a former deputy defence minister who now heads the Armenian parliament’s defence, national security and interior affairs committee, told IWPR, “It is satisfying to know that a factory run on private capital is producing ammunition. If the state handles its orders properly, then I am certain that investors will emerge who will be ready to put their money into munitions manufacturing and repairs. We should be able to assist this process.”

Experts say the launch of the factory is a small step towards making Armenia’s military more self-sufficient. The government’s defence budget is set to grow by 20 per cent in 2008 to reach 380 million US dollars - around ten per cent of total planned expenditure. As a CSTO member, Armenia benefits from a 30 per cent discount on arms purchases from Russia, its main supplier. Prime minister Sarkisian said the launch of the factory had nothing to do with the unresolved conflict with Azerbaijan over Karabakh.

Most analysts do not concur with this. Azerbaijan, which recently created a government ministry in charge of the defence industry, has one of the fastest-growing defence budgets in the world. Military spending in 2007 is put at more than one billion dollars, and President Ilham Aliev has said he wants defence expenditure to be greater than the Armenia’s entire government budget.

“To me, the plant is important in terms of demonstrating to Azerbaijan that we have been able to preserve the balance [with Azerbaijan] and are taking action in response,” said Washington-based security expert Richard Giragosian. “In future, Armenia should set up a state structure like Azerbaijan’s and invest in development of its military industry. This will put us in a position to show Azerbaijan that we are not lagging behind.

“The creation of a bullet-producing factory is definitely a positive first step, but it’s not enough. It’s more important to develop production of airplanes, tanks and artillery.” David Petrosian, a security expert and commentator with the Noyan Tapan news agency, said Armenia had been trying to diversify the sources of its weapons purchases, albeit with limited success. “There have been cases when Armenia bought weapons from Serbia,” he said. “SU-25 planes were bought, as far as I know, from Slovakia. There were also arms purchases from China and Belarus. But the main arms supplier to Armenia is, of course, Russia.”

“Armenia is now making only bullets,” said Petrosian. “This should not be seen as a first step, as it is too early to be talking about [Armenia] having a serious military industry. Making bullets does not mean Armenia is actively arming itself.” He added that it was important for Armenia to be able to repair weapons, even if it could not manufacture them. Giragosian said Armenia was achieving success with military reforms and cooperation with NATO, which he would like to see expand. “To my mind, Armenia is too heavily dependent on Russia,” he said. “For example, Armenia’s military aviation is somewhat weak. Armenia’s air force is under Russian influence within the Collective Security Pact. I’d like to see our military potential more independent.”

Source: http://www.iwpr.net/?p=crs&s=f&o=340428&apc_state=henh