Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

If you understood what i was writing you would not say this.

I understood and what I say is true. Whether Russia is OK with the protocols or not will be determined by its level of determination to have a hold in the Caucasus in the form of Armenia. Is Russia ready to let go of it and let Turkey's (and its allies) influence spread through the Caucasus like it has never before? Russia decides, but I seriously doubt it.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Are you for real? I have just told you as well as numerous voices in here that what Serj is doing is and will be falling apart. That's exactly why we are not for Serj and yet you are. You are so wrapped up in your words that you don't see it beyond yourself that politically we could and should have been more stern even with Russia and not stepping way down our integrity and our vital rights. But that's exactly why everything will fall apart when Vasak Serj signs those black protocols and that's exactly why I have been appaled and distressed by it. And it seems that it is also unimportant to you as well for the Genocide recognition by turkey and someday getting our renumeration in the price of our lands.

By the way where do you live Haykakan? I mean do you live in RA or in the Diaspora?

Neither you nor the entire diaspora nor Serj can stop this from happening, it is way bigger then all of that put togather and multiplied 10X. Everything has been planed by the great powers and the plan has been handed down to Armenias authorities who have the same power to deny its implimentation as you do to hold your breath for the next 100 years. I have lived in the diaspora for almost 30 years and i am very familiar with it, as a matter of fact most of my friends are dashnaks yet they never questioned my devotion to Armenia and the armenian people the things i say opens a new perspective for many of them and my goal has always been to see and tell things as they are vs some rosie scenerio i dreamed up. Everyone who knows me admires the rational approach i use in all matters and they ask my opinion on things such as this more then they ask anyone else. Genocide recognition and getting our historic Armenia back is as important for me as it is for any other person who calls himself armenian, the difference is that i try not to confuse fantasy with reality.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I understood and what I say is true. Whether Russia is OK with the protocols or not will be determined by its level of determination to have a hold in the Caucasus in the form of Armenia. Is Russia ready to let go of it and let Turkey's (and its allies) influence spread through the Caucasus like it has never before? Russia decides, but I seriously doubt it.

You didnt get it. By having oil and trade routes going through Armenia Russia guerantees its control over Turckey and the entire caucuses. Russia can dictate to a wider audience this way and make a good deal of money to since it owns most of Armenias infustructure and will be heavily involved in any new developments like roads, pipelines etc..

"This is not rocket science"

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Okay, but who says that Russia's current influence in Armenia will last long after the protocols?

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Okay, but who says that Russia's current influence in Armenia will last long after the protocols?

Russias influence over Armenia will not just last long after the protocal but it will increase as well. No matter what agreement Armenia signs, the only gueranteer of its security is Russia. The turcks would love to cut out the middleman (thats us and russia) and will destroy Armenia with great pleasure then just as they would like to now. So you can easily see how Armenias dependence on Russia does not diminish. Plus of course there will be more russian investment thus control of Armenias infustructure as well.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Some funny stuff I've seen the last couple of days. All those people living outside Armenia telling the country how it should act. Don't you think that it's funny, those people don't even have the plan to move to Armenia. I got a question to all those people on this site and outside where were you when the Russians were buying parts of Armenian economy? Why weren't you and your friends coming together and collecting money and starting businesses in Hayastan?

Don't start blaming the president for doing what he's doing, I don't think many of you would act any different when you were in his place. I hope you don't get me wrong, I'm also against the protocols. But the difference is that I know that I can't do anything about it. The decision has been made so get used to it.

Now it's time to get involved in Hayastan and I really mean involved. Not sending 10 bucks every thanks giving to Hayastan but going there and investing in the countries industry and economy make that there is money coming in the country. It's time to go and buy over the economy of Turkey and so we can use it against them one day. It's time to buy land in the lands that we have lost. Some of you speak of Western Armenia but don't realize that we don't control one inch of it. Not even one rock belongs to Armenians.

The time has come to start destroying our enemy and create a mighty Hayastan. It's not the time to start a civil war or anything else. The situation in todays world is forcing us to sign the protocols. US, Eu and Russian are working on this one. and what can our president do against the power of those tree? Nothing he can do nothing.

In stead of protesting in the streets go and collect money and invest the country and take over the country. Why is it that our congac is being made by Frenchman? Or that most of the economy is in the hand of the Russians? Because the Armenians in the diaspora weren't ready to put money in Armenia.

Now think what you will do after reading what I've written.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Some funny stuff I've seen the last couple of days. All those people living outside Armenia telling the country how it should act. Don't you think that it's funny, those people don't even have the plan to move to Armenia. I got a question to all those people on this site and outside where were you when the Russians were buying parts of Armenian economy? Why weren't you and your friends coming together and collecting money and starting businesses in Hayastan?

Don't start blaming the president for doing what he's doing, I don't think many of you would act any different when you were in his place. I hope you don't get me wrong, I'm also against the protocols. But the difference is that I know that I can't do anything about it. The decision has been made so get used to it.

Now it's time to get involved in Hayastan and I really mean involved. Not sending 10 bucks every thanks giving to Hayastan but going there and investing in the countries industry and economy make that there is money coming in the country. It's time to go and buy over the economy of Turkey and so we can use it against them one day. It's time to buy land in the lands that we have lost. Some of you speak of Western Armenia but don't realize that we don't control one inch of it. Not even one rock belongs to Armenians.

The time has come to start destroying our enemy and create a mighty Hayastan. It's not the time to start a civil war or anything else. The situation in todays world is forcing us to sign the protocols. US, Eu and Russian are working on this one. and what can our president do against the power of those tree? Nothing he can do nothing.

In stead of protesting in the streets go and collect money and invest the country and take over the country. Why is it that our congac is being made by Frenchman? Or that most of the economy is in the hand of the Russians? Because the Armenians in the diaspora weren't ready to put money in Armenia.

Now think what you will do after reading what I've written.

Most of us are too young to start investments or businesses in Armenia. We know there are wealthy Armenians out there, the question is where were they. Perhaps they got wealthy by selling us out as well.

You say the people can do nothing but that isn't how a democracy works. If the government is acting to please other nations which we know it is, then it isn't sovereign, democratic or independent. We know Armenia isn't any of these yet the world stands by and pretends it is. The US, UK, Russia, Israel all have more influence in the caucuses than Armenia does. Russia is the only one fighting off the Zionist invasion.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Most of us are too young to start investments or businesses in Armenia. We know there are wealthy Armenians out there, the question is where were they. Perhaps they got wealthy by selling us out as well.

You are never to young and every bits help. I for one I'm 19 years old and collecting every penny I can to invest in Armenia once I'm there. it will not be millions but it could be a couple of hundred of euros. And if I wasn't along there were ten people who did that thats thousands of dollars. And if we do it every year that's a lot of money after a couple of years. And the money you invest will bring profit and you can invest that too.

You say the people can do nothing but that isn't how a democracy works. If the government is acting to please other nations which we know it is, then it isn't sovereign, democratic or independent. We know Armenia isn't any of these yet the world stands by and pretends it is. The US, UK, Russia, Israel all have more influence in the caucuses than Armenia does. Russia is the only one fighting off the Zionist invasion.

The majority of the parliament agrees with the protocols, so democracy works. And in this day and age there are very few independent countries left. Let's work that we can give Armenia that status one day. And about the influence we need money and military power for that, and military power comes through money (buying better weapons, spending more money on the training of the soldiers...)

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

KarotheGreat,

The reason why all of this is happening in the diaspora is that the protocols are not simply an issue that concerns the Republic of Armenia and its current rulers, it concerns all Armenians whether inside or outside the borders. And the people who are discussing the protocols are precisely those who care most. We are all part of the same nation after all, we can all have our input. That is also the reason (or the advertised reason) why Sargsyan made a tour of the diaspora.

Besides, the diaspora has made considerable contributions to the country throughout the years, whether it was by keeping the spirit of Armenia alive during the Soviet years, helping during the earthquakes, the Artsakh war, and so on. However you make it look like the diaspora essentially does not care about the betterment of Armenia.

Russias influence over Armenia will not just last long after the protocal but it will increase as well. No matter what agreement Armenia signs, the only gueranteer of its security is Russia. The turcks would love to cut out the middleman (thats us and russia) and will destroy Armenia with great pleasure then just as they would like to now. So you can easily see how Armenias dependence on Russia does not diminish. Plus of course there will be more russian investment thus control of Armenias infustructure as well.

I seriously doubt that this is how it'll go.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I seriously doubt that this is how it'll go.

Ok you cant just say that without a explanation or reason. This is like saying i seriously dought the sun will rise today. Like why do you think that has to be in there somewhere.