Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

you sound like my father... He's a Bolsahye and says Turkey is more his country than Armenia.

Pathetic. Why? What answer/ justification do you think he would have?

We were discussing about Western Armenians who consider Western Armenia their homeland not 'Turkey'.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Can somebody post the link to the site where we can contribute to Ararat Center?

Here you go enker, I just made a donation. Please donate whatever you can, no matter how small you may think it is.

http://www.ararat-center.org/index.php?p=6&l=eng

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

you sound like my father... He's a Bolsahye and says Turkey is more his country than Armenia.

Yes, thank you for your honesty. This conversation is beyond family. I also have human garbage in my extended "Libananahai" family. Generally speaking, however, Istanbultsi-Armenians are notorious for their apathy and indifference towards Armenia and Armenians. Personally, I don't consider the "Polsahai" my countrymen. They are a separate xxxxedup breed I want nothing to do with.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Turkey scared to admit Armenian genocide, says historian


Turkey risks a collapse of its secular political system akin to that of the Soviet Union if it bows to international pressure to recognise the 1915-22 Armenian genocide, the head of Armenia's state memorial to the event has told the Guardian.

Hayk Demoyan said Ankara could not acknowledge the systematic killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman troops during the first world war because it would lead to a wholesale re-writing of history and undermine the ideological basis of the Turkish state.

In remarks that will cast a shadow over attempts to forge a new Turkish-Armenian rapprochement, he said those implicated included Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, founder of modern Turkey and a figure Turks are taught to revere. Historical documents proved Atatürk committed "war crimes" against Armenians and other groups in his drive to create an ethnically homogeneous Turkish state, Demoyan insisted. "Fear of rewriting history is the main fear of modern Turkey," said Demoyan, director of The Armenian Genocide Museum-Institute in Yerevan, Armenia's capital.

"It is a fear of facing historical reality and causing a total collapse of the ideological axis that modern republican Turkey was formed around. Turks get panicked when you compare Atatürk's legacy to Lenin.

Atatürk was sentenced to death in absentia by a military judge to punish war crimes during the first world war. There are documents from non-Armenian sources listing him as a war criminal ."

Demoyan's remarks come amid fledgling attempts to re-establish links between two countries which have not had diplomatic relations since 1994, following a war between Armenia and Azerbaijan, Turkey's ally.

Tentative efforts towards normalising ties occurred this month when the Turkish president, Abdullah Gül, visited Yerevan to attend a World Cup football match between Turkey and Armenia at the invitation of his Armenian counterpart, Serge Sarkisian.

Unlike most visiting heads of state, Gül did not visit the genocide museum, which displays documentary and photographic exhibits proving, Armenian officials say, that their ethnic brethren were subjected to deliberate genocide. Turkey vehemently denies this and has jailed Turkish citizens who argued otherwise. However, rising numbers of Turkish tourists and journalists have visited the museum recently.

"More than 500 Turks have visited this year. They've come in unprecedented numbers," Demoyan said. "Their reaction is one of shock. At first there is denial. Sometimes they ask: 'What is our sin?' or 'How can we be responsible for this?'. It's not taught in Turkish schools, so we understand their reaction."

Turkey claims the Armenian death toll has been exaggerated and that most victims died from starvation or disease. It also argues that many Turks were killed by Armenian groups.

From http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/22/turkey

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

when i fight, i will be fighting for my nation, and not for the state. sit down, stop crying and get over it.

Yeah, I want to smack you and all other Armenians who think this way.

fyi: talking xxxx over the internet is easy, do it in person and it's a whole other game.

How ridiculously sad.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

How ridiculously sad.

Yes you are. Aren't you the same sap that has a tatoo of a cross yet isn't a Christian?

Also the above about smacking is in general, where as the other sap's comment which I was responding to was straight trash talking.

Either way you are another example of a "proud" Armenian, not a nationalist.

[seruven]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Today there is an interview of journalist Cenk Başlamış with Serge Sargsyan on Turkish newspaper Milliyet. Headline ; Yerevan : We have no territorial claims. I think that some nationalists will be disturbed due to this kind of explanations.

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Dunya/Hab...egori=dunya&Ar ticleID=993794&Date=21.09.2008&b=Toprak%20talebini z%20var%20mi

Let me translate the related part:
Question: Does Armenia have any territorial demands over Turkey?
Sarkisyan: I get surprised about these claims. For some reasons, it's a common thought (that we have demands). However, have you ever heard that an Armenian authority saying "We demand land from Turkey"? Definitely, there is no such a statement. There are some people connecting territorial claims with the genocide issue.

It may be a little bit chicken-translation, sorry in advance if there are any mistakes.
I would like to learn your opinions about Sarkisyan's views. He tells that no Armenian authority has ever demanded land from Turkey. Is it correct or the authorities are stating different views according to with whom they are talking to?

[Kavkaz]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Is it correct or the authorities are stating different views according to with whom they are talking to?

Thanks for the translation.

Yes he is right there has never been someone in the ruling party that has asked for land, that does not mean Armenia does not want land.

If you believe Armenians are going to be ok with not EVEN getting Ararat back that is big dream. If you go to Armenia you will know what I mean.

Ill give you an example: The first thing I ever drew in my life was Ararat as a child.You cannot but notice the mountain and marvel at it. I will say that out of ever 5 pictures draw in Armenia 1 is of Ararat mountain and Masis. Before I learned how to count I learned about Ararat and Masis.

For a Turk Ararat or "Agri Dagi" is nothing but a symbol of power. You have it we don't. I am sure not many Turks have even see it. For Armenians around the world it is the symbol of loss of land and our people throughout the world.

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Yes you are. Aren't you the same sap that has a tatoo of a cross yet isn't a Christian?

Also the above about smacking is in general, where as the other sap's comment which I was responding to was straight trash talking.

Either way you are another example of a "proud" Armenian, not a nationalist.

1) no that is not me. i am a christian. an armenian apostilic gregorian one at that. i never said i wasnt. like most people i have questions regarding religion. and for your imformation that cross is surrounded by ararat, a lion and an eagle. its as much an armenian symbol as it is purely a christian one.

2) i spend every waking second of my life learning the armenian language, studying armenain history, culture, religion, lingusitics, race, biology listening to armenian music - mostly nationalist - reading armenian books, arguing and teaching my armenian herritage to any person i come in contact with. then on top of that i go to uni and learn what nationalism is, hows its practiced, the values and ethics behind it. although it doesn bother me much that you may not think im a nationalist but please dont insult me. i am a nationalist, but not a blind and ignorant one like some are.

3) i will not resort to name petty calling like you, or empty threats because i have respect for fellow 'nationalist' armenians. it would be admirible of you do the same.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

1) no that is not me. i am a christian. an armenian apostilic gregorian one at that. i never said i wasnt. like most people i have questions regarding religion. and for your imformation that cross is surrounded by ararat, a lion and an eagle. its as much an armenian symbol as it is purely a christian one.

2) i spend every waking second of my life learning the armenian language, studying armenain history, culture, religion, lingusitics, race, biology listening to armenian music - mostly nationalist - reading armenian books, arguing and teaching my armenian herritage to any person i come in contact with. then on top of that i go to uni and learn what nationalism is, hows its practiced, the values and ethics behind it. although it doesn bother me much that you may not think im a nationalist but please dont insult me. i am a nationalist, but not a blind and ignorant one like some are.

All very nice, and I hope you keep it up. But in order to get respect from fellow nationalists, do not make comments such as the RA is not your home, etc. Although the current RA is 10% of our ancestrial lands, which we will get back, it is currently the best we have to work with and without it we would go the way of Assyrians, or the countless other stateless peoples. So please think through these things before you make the above statement.