Armenian-Turkish Relations

[hipeter924]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Also it is nonsense to think that Turkey is enemy for Russia

I guess you could be right in some respects, world politics is a hypocritical and corrupt game.

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Also it is nonsense to think that Turkey is enemy for Russia

Well turkey is historically the enemy of the Russia and never was an ally and it is not an ally now for sure. I think you cannot get rid of very turkish way of seeing things just the way you like them to be...

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Turcks and russians have become big trading partners but they have been enemys for a long time and are still fighting each other for influence in the caucuses. They may have put some of their enemocities aside to limit the USA influence in the region so they can keep their own influence.Economic ties can however develope into friendship eventually but this is a iffy scenerio and would take a long time.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Sarkisian Steps Up Criticism Of Turkey


President Serzh Sarkisian has stepped up his criticism of Turkey’s preconditions for normalizing Turkish-Armenian relations, saying that they run counter to agreements reached by Ankara and Yerevan during their year-long negotiations.
The criticism was echoed by more than 80 U.S. lawmakers who accused Ankara of backpedaling on a U.S.-brokered “roadmap” to establishing diplomatic relations between the two neighboring nations and reopening their border.

“For one year, Armenia and Turkey held negotiations and agreed on two documents,” Sarkisian said in televised remarks aired late on Thursday. “But since that some political forces in Turkey have been trying to set conditions and link the establishment of diplomatic relations with Armenia with the resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and Armenia’s relations with Azerbaijan.”

“We do accept that Turkey is a big country, we do accept its role both in the region and the entire world,” he said. “But at the same time, we Armenians are an independent nation, and it is inadmissible to talk to us in the language of preconditions. Any tough step brings about counter-steps.” He did not elaborate on the warning.

Sarkisian spoke during a visit to Lake Sevan where he attended a summer festival organized by his government for visiting young people from the worldwide Armenian Diaspora. Many in the Diaspora have followed with unease Armenia’s dramatic rapprochement with Turkey that began shortly after Sarkisian took office in April last year. Like opposition politicians in Yerevan, some Diaspora leaders have been openly critical of the Western-backed process, saying that it has earned Armenia no tangible benefits and only hampered efforts to get more countries of the world recognize the 1915 Armenian massacres in Ottoman Turkey as genocide.

The remarks came just two days after Sarkisian again made clear that he will not travel to Turkey to watch the October 14 return match of the two countries’ national football teams unless Ankara takes “real steps” to reopen the Turkish-Armenian border. The two teams played their first game in Yerevan last September in the presence of Sarkisian and Turkish President Abdullah Gul.

Gul’s historic visit to Armenia was followed by more Turkish-Armenian talks, with the Turks reportedly agreeing to drop their long-standing linkage between the normalization of bilateral ties and a Karabakh settlement acceptable to Azerbaijan. However, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and other Turkish leaders have repeatedly said in recent months that the Turkish-Armenian border will remain closed as long as the Karabakh conflict remains unresolved. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu reaffirmed this precondition on Wednesday.


Despite these statements, Sarkisian until recently sounded cautiously optimistic about the success of the Turkish-Armenian dialogue. It was not until July 6 that he first publicly expressed his frustration with Ankara’s stance.

Highlighting that frustration, 82 pro-Armenian members of the U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday sent a joint letter to President Barack Obama expressing concern about “Turkish backpedaling” on the still unpublicized “roadmap” deal that was announced on April 22. “Turkey's public statements and actions since April 24th stand in sharp contrast to this agreement and undermine U.S. policy that normalization take place without preconditions,” the letter said.

“It would appear that Turkey, in an effort to block U.S. recognition of the Armenian Genocide, agreed to a roadmap it did not intend to uphold,” the legislators charged. “Therefore, we urge your Administration to separate the issues of normalization and genocide recognition.”

In an April 24 statement, Obama refrained from calling the mass killings and deportations of Armenians a genocide, implicitly citing the need not to undermine the Turkish-Armenian rapprochement.

http://www.armenialiberty.org/content/article/1789802.html

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

So what this means is that Turks agreed to some of our own preconditions (Yes!) when they were drawing up this freaking secret roadmap that we know nothing about and now as usual the Turks are backing out of their words.

Did I ever mention what the Turks should do with them carnations?

[Pazooki]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

So what this means is that Turks agreed to some of our own preconditions (Yes!) when they were drawing up this freaking secret roadmap that we know nothing about and now as usual the Turks are backing out of their words.

Did I ever mention what the Turks should do with them carnations?

With 1.5 Million carnations

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Did any one expect any thing else?

Some nice chicks on the post by the way, thanks Federate...

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

this is crazy news.

FBI Insider Links Turkish Lobby To Bribery And Blackmail
By Paul Chaderjian on Aug 11th, 2009 and filed under Armenia, Featured Story, National, News, Top Stories, Turkey, United States.


Sibel Edmonds following her deposition Saturday
WASHINGTON—Former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds testified under oath Saturday about shocking details connecting the Turkish government to an intricate network of individuals and organization that bribed, persuaded, and – at least in one case – blackmailed US lawmakers and corrupted American government officials. Corruption. Espionage. Bribery. All to ensure that the US does not recognize the Armenian Genocide ever again.
For years, the Turkish government and its representatives here in the United States have stopped at nothing to fight the recognition of the Armenian Genocide. This far-reaching campaign of denial and cover-up stretches from well-funded efforts to block education about the Armenian genocide to ensuring that American media does not address or acknowledge the Armenian genocide as historic fact.
The Turkish government and Turkish lobby have for years pressured local, state and the federal governments and American and global media to rewrite American, Ottoman, Turkish, and world histories so that they exclude the Armenian genocide.
But only now are we beginning to understand exactly how far the government of Turkey, and its agents and proxies, are willing to go to undermine the Armenian case.
The FBI hired linguist Sibel Edmonds as a translator after the Sept. 11 attacks. But she was fired less than a year later after reporting the illegal activities of Turkish citizens being covered up by her bosses. Edmonds has been bravely battling the legal system for years for the opportunity to tell her story. On Saturday, Edmonds was able to speak freely thanks to David Krikorian, an American Armenian who is running for a congressional seat in Ohio.
“Ms. Edmonds is a very credible witness,” said Krikorian, “and she has direct information pertaining to how when she was a member of the Department of Justice, of the FBI, where she uncovered relationships between the government of Turkey and US officials, where the government of Turkey was pushing its agenda on US officials and doing so, perhaps, and we’ll find out today, in what people many people believe to be an illegal way.”
David Krikorian is the democratic candidate in the 2010 elections for Ohio’s 2nd congressional district. The seat is now held by Republican Jean Schmidt, who was the largest recipient of money from the Turkish lobby in the 2008 elections. The congresswoman also fought the Armenian Genocide resolution.
When her challenger, David Krikorian, pointed out that she was receiving blood money from Turks for helping deny the Armenian Genocide, the congresswoman complained to the Ohio Elections Commission. Representing the congresswoman and the Turkish American Defense Fund at the deposition on Saturday, August 8, was non-other than attorney and longtime voice of the Turkish lobby Bruce Fein.
Krikorian says the Turkish lobby’s interest in what Sibel Edmonds would say is because this FBI whistle blower is linking bribes accepted by lawmakers to the Turkish campaign of denial.
“I think they’re concerned, because this exposes their campaign of denial regarding the Armenian Genocide,” said Krikorian, “and how they’ve been able to buy off certain members of the US congress in support of the Turkish government’s position on this issue. So they have an interest.”
Bruce Fein claims Edmond’s testimony on Saturday has no relevance in congresswoman Schmidt’s case against David Krikorian.
We asked Bruce Fein about David Krikorian’s first amendment rights of freedom of speech and the right to talk openly about his opponent’s opposition to the Armenian Genocide resolution.
“We totally support his right to state anything he wants about the Armenian Genocide,” said Fein. “What you’re not entitled to do under the first amendment as interpreted by the US Supreme Court, who we think is the authoritative interpreter, is knowingly state lies, and what we have alleged, and what we have to prove, and we understand and accept it, is that Krikorian knowingly and intentionally told lies about Jean Schmidt including she received money from the Turkish government, and we fully expect we will discharge that burden and we agree that we ought to be able to. We must be shouldered with that burden in order to protect free speech. We don’t want close anybody’s mouth when it comes to arguing one way or another about the Armenian Genocide.”
Fein and the Turkish Defense Fund are indeed trying to stop Krikorian from speaking the truth. Congresswoman Schmidt did receive huge sums of contributions from the Turkish lobby. Sibel Edmonds says that same lobby bribed public officials to enforce the Turkish agenda in the United States.
The government has tried to gag Edmonds and has sent threatening letters to stop this type of talk about corruption inside the FBI, the State Department, the Department of Justice, and in the halls of Congress.
“I am able to talk about the kind of information they used to retaliate against whistle-blowers, to gag people, to issue states secrets privilege, or to use the excuse of classification,” said Edmonds. “Nothing that has to do with national security but to cover up criminal activities, embarrassing information, and today that is happening, and this is the biggest significance. It’s very significant. I believe Mr. Krikorian is very brave and courageous person, to push this and bring it to this point. He’s actually serving the interest of the United States citizens and not only in Cincinnati, Ohio, but everyone here in this country. So, we should be all thankful to him for providing us with this opportunity.”
During the deposition on Saturday, Edmonds talked in detail about scandalous bribes accepted by then-Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert and former lawmakers xxxx Gephardt and Stephen Solarz. She also spoke about the blackmailing of another un-named member of congress — a married woman with children, who was lured into a homosexual affair by a female prostitute sent by the Turkish lobby. This congresswoman was then blackmailed to abandon her support for the Armenian Genocide resolution.
“It’s the Turkish government,” said Edmonds, “but also other entities and layers of these operations and some of these covert operations and the way they are done is completely illegal. I was able to discuss those in detail, and that information within the next couple of hours I hope will be available to the public, and the public will get a chance to decide for themselves and see what the government does to gag and quash necessary information like this and stamp it as classified. I think this may end up inflicting the best and the worst damage to arbitrarily, criminally done classifications and let’s hope that it does.”
Edmonds says the allegations she made in an August 2005 Vanity Fair article were confirmed by the several FBI agents and Department of Justice officials. The piece by Vanity Fair reporter David Rose said that then-Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert was the recipient of various bribes. Edmonds says it is amazing that neither Dennis Hastert nor his attorneys reacted to the article. Hastert did not issue a denial to the allegations, but he resigned a year later. Now he is part of the Turkish Government orchestrated network that Vanity Fair says paid him the big bribes when he was the most powerful member of the House of Representatives. The most recent Federal filings show that Hastert, one of several registered foreign agents for Turkey, now receives $35,000-a-month to push the Turkish government’s agenda on Capitol Hill.
How deep do these corrupt Turkish operations go? Vanity Fair reported that the FBI began investigating Turkish citizens living in the US in the late 90s, and they found evidence of attempts to bribe US officials. However, as Sibel Edmonds says – the government has used the phrase “state secrets” and security reasons to hold this information back from the public and media.
The Ohio Election Commission’s Probable Cause hearing is scheduled for Aug. 13th, and the final hearing in the case against David Krikorian where all the evidence will be heard is scheduled on Sept 3.

For more coverage on this topic, please visit http://www.facebook.com/v/113418419077

Brief Q&A With Bruce Fein
Q: Is this part of the series of cases you’re opening up, whether it’s in Massachusetts or suing the Southern Poverty Law Center as well to try to quash speech with regard to the Armenian Genocide?
BF: No, what we are trying to do is promote freedom of speech, because what’s been done is that other organizations have accused various members who dispute their version of history of criminal activity of compromising scholarly integrity. It is they who are trying to suppress freedom of speech by intimidating, harassing, and calling criminal those individuals who happen to dispute their version of history.
Q: Would you then also support Holocaust denial entrance into the Massachusetts school system or pushing other publications like the Southern Poverty Center’s publication to talk about denial as well?
BF: What the Southern Poverty Law Center alleged is that various academics are receiving money from the government of Turkey to compromise their scholarship and we will not accept accusations that are knowingly false of that sort, period.

http://www.asbarez.com/2009/08/11/fbi-insider-links-turkish-lobby-to-bribery-and-blackmail/

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

70 000 illegal Armenians work for Turkey

“Today Azeris, Turkmen, Uzbeks, Georgians, Sudanese and Armenians work illegally in Turkey. You are not mistaken-Armenians too. Turkey is a poor country but still feeds the neighbors,” the newspaper reads, underlining there are about sixty-seventy thousand illegal workers in Turkey.

“A year ago Turkish Prime-Minister stated there were 50 000 illegal Armenians working in the country, the head of Internal Affairs Ministry said 53 000, while former Foreign Minister Yashar Yakish mentioned 70 000,” the article reads.

Begun appeals to RA President: “Armenia’s population is 2.5-3 mln, of which 70 000 earn their living in Turkey. If we assume one worker feeding 3-4 people, this number comes to 210 000. This is a huge number for Armenia. How many Armenians get work permit in France, Belgium, Canada or Netherlands? Illegally working Armenians would be deported immediately from those countries.”
The newspaper underlines in short accents that RA President pushes away Turkey’s lent friendly hand, refusing to come “to football match that is a symbol of friendship.” You may come or not. “However, learning of 200-300 thousands illegal workers making their living in Turkey, you should come and apologize,” the author concludes.

Under Swiss auspices, on April 22 the Armenian and Turkish governments have agreed on a framework, signing a roadmap of relations’ normalization and border gate unblocking with no preconditions. Thus, Armenian Presidents statement on complying with the clause cannot be viewed as precondition, as it is already agreed with Turkish authorities. The matter is different, if the Turkish officials are not ready to meet political agreements and obligations, trying to elude from fulfilling their commitments calling them preconditions of Armenia.

http://news.am/en/news/2337.html

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

70 000 illegal Armenians work for Turkey


The newspaper underlines in short accents that RA President pushes away Turkey’s lent friendly hand, refusing to come “to football match that is a symbol of friendship.” You may come or not. “However, learning of 200-300 thousands illegal workers making their living in Turkey, you should come and apologize,” the author concludes.



http://news.am/en/news/2337.html

Considering the quantity of illegal turks in Germany and other European countries, Erdogan and Gull must be flying to Berlin to apologies at least ones per week.