Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Now, are there calculations and variables that are not available to us to analyze? Of course, the vast majority is not available to us. However, I have no reason to believe that our officials have approached this issue with any boldness or gumption. You can't even tell me that this is entirely in Russia's interest--- since when is a historical commission on the genocide in Russia's interests? But somehow, its on the agenda. Therefore, I must conclude that our officials are doing a poor job negotiating.

The fact is that the negotiations do not have to be speeded up to the extent that they are doing it now. The negotiations could actually last a long time. The very fact that our officials are rushing it so much it is putting a great deal of doubt within our people who have both the know how and -the interest of our lands and our country- that indeed both our high officials in the Republic are doing the negotiations with turkey under the table in concealment and in agreement with the enemy.

ArmSurvival, not only our officials are doing a poor job with their negotiations but a great many people are justly believing that our officials in the RA have been bought by the enemy. They are certainly not acting on behalf of Armenia but against it. They are stabbing Armenians in the back. It is very sad.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

The fact is that the negotiations do not have to be speeded up to the extent that they are doing it now. The negotiations could actually last a long time. The very fact that our officials are rushing it so much it is putting a great deal of doubt within our people who have both the know how and -the interest of our lands and our country- that indeed both our officials are doing the negotiations with turkey under the table in concealment and in agreement with the enemy.

ArmSurvival, not only our officials are doing a poor job with their negotiations but a great many people are justly believing that our officials in the RA have been bought by the enemy. They are certainly not acting on behalf of Armenia but against it. They are stabbing Armenians in the back.

Well, they aren't acting on behalf of Armenia or Armenians. They are acting on behalf of the oil piplines, same reason for the war in Afghanistan. The west is pushing for "normalizations" so the plan for the pipeline isn't disrupted. I mean, for the pipe route to go around Armenia is ridiculous. The pipeline that is to transport oil from Caspian Sea through Georgia into Turkish port of Ceyhan, goes around Armenia. That route probably costs investors several hundreds of million dollars in extra construction.

The BTC pipeline costs are being funded by third parties, including the World Bank's International Finance Corporation, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, export credit agencies of seven countries and a syndicate of 15 commercial banks.

The shareholders of the consortium are:

BP (United Kingdom): 30.1%
State Oil Company of Azerbaijan (SOCAR) (Azerbaijan): 25.00%
Chevron (USA): 8.90%
StatoilHydro (Norway): 8.71%
Türkiye Petrolleri Anonim Ortaklığı (TPAO) (Turkey): 6.53%
Eni (Italy): 5.00%
Total (France): 5.0%
Itochu (Japan): 3.4%
Inpex (Japan): 2.50%
ConocoPhillips (USA): 2.50%
Hess Corporation (USA) 2.36%

Then the kicker...

It has been proposed that oil from the BTC pipeline be transported to eastern Asia via the Israeli oil terminals at Ashkelon and Eilat, the overland trans-Israel sector being bridged by the Eilat-Ashkelon Pipeline owned by the Eilat Ashkelon Pipeline Company.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Read this article from Panorama.am:

http://www.panorama.am/en/politics/2009/09/19/petrosyan

Script writer Vardan Petrosyan stated that the people in our Republic do not have any knowledge of our history. Not even the writers do. After being acquainted and reading from our history books, Petrosyan concluded that we as a nation are time and time again repeating the same mistakes. We don't learn; and the fact that our youth, our people and even our writers in the Motherland have not read and have no knowledge of Armenia's history, they are therefore unafraid about all these signings of the 'protocols' and opening the borders with our number one enemy who has always been very deceitful. They are therefore very passive, because they are ignorent of our history and what have transpired. They don't know what our enemies are like and what they can do and how deceitful they can be.

As a matter of fact in 2005 turkey have approached Armenia when Kocharian was the President and they have asked Armenia with the very same pre-conditions; to open the borders that turkey has closed since 1993 and they have asked Armenia to have the historians look into the Genocide matter. They have also approached with the same pre-conditions to have the borders opened; but Kocharian and his administration of course refused, because they knew better and because they were Armenian with an Armenian heart and soul.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Yeah I know KanadaHye, they're all interested in spending less money for the oil pipeline; who cares if the Genocide cause goes under their feet and gets smashed, who cares if no reparations have been given to the heirs of the Genocide survivors, who cares if Armenia loses out and we lose our sovereignty. Meanwhile the survivors of the Haulocaust have been and they are still getting every cent and more back for the heirs of the Haulocaust survivors. But when the time comes for the Armenians, NO. The world as well as the US and Israel are on the side of the Genocidal turks.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

The fact is that the negotiations do not have to be speeded up to the extent that they are doing it now. The negotiations could actually last a long time. The very fact that our officials are rushing it so much it is putting a great deal of doubt within our people

Exactly. There is no point in rushing this process, considering the importance of these decisions on future generations of our people.

Script writer Vardan Petrosyan stated that the people in our Republic do not have any knowledge of our history. Not even the writers do. After being acquainted and reading from our history books, Petrosyan concluced that we as a nation are time and time again repeating the same mistakes. We don't learn; and the fact that our youth, our people and even our writers in the Motherland have not read and have no knowledge of Armenia's history, they are therefore unafraid about all these signings of the 'protocols' and opening the borders with our number one enemy who has always been very deceitful. They are therefore very passive, because they are ignorent of our history and what have transpired. They don't know what our enemies are like and what they can do and how deceitful they can be.

Anoush jan, that is the unfortunate side-effect of Bolshevism. They took the nationalism and spirituality from the Armenian people, to the extent that a significant portion of the people who grew up in that society are soulless drones who do everything in secrecy.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Exactly. There is no point in rushing this process, considering the importance of these decisions on future generations of our people.




Anoush jan, that is the unfortunate side-effect of Bolshevism. They took the nationalism and spirituality from the Armenian people, to the extent that a significant portion of the people who grew up in that society are soulless drones who do everything in secrecy.

Dear ArmSurvival, Also it is a fact that you cannot negotiate with the turks by letting them get away with the Genocide and reparations of the Genocide. If you say that the 'protocols' are the sole problem of the Diaspora, our people in the republic would be thinking with extreme naivete. You cannot negotiate with the turks. You cannot say lets forget about the Genocide recognition and our Western Armenian lands, but concentrate only on Artsakh. You simply cannot negotiate with them that way. All three of our causes are very legitimate and should remain that way. (The Genocide, our lands, the borders and Artsakh) all three are linked together. If you let them get away with the Genocide and our Western Armenian lands issue, you will give them carte blanche to come back and ask for more and believe me within time they will. They will simply not stop at the Genocide and Western Armenia. All of this is directly linked with Armenia proper and Artsakh and the future of our lands. What the people in Armenia don't understand is that turkey will eventually want Armenia proper and Artsakh to surrender. By surrendering to turkey with the Genocide issue and the reparations of Western Armenian lands will show them extreme weakness on our side and believe me it'll come back to haunt us, because then they will want more and more and turkey will not stop until the end. Meaning surrendering of Armenia and Artsakh to them. And they will have the upper hand if we give in to them now.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Yeah I know KanadaHye, they're all interested in spending less money for the oil pipeline; who cares if the Genocide cause goes under their feet and gets smashed, who cares if no reparations have been given to the heirs of the Genocide survivors, who cares if Armenia loses out and we lose our sovereignty. Meanwhile the survivors of the Haulocaust have been and they are still getting every cent and more back for the heirs of the Haulocaust survivors. But when the time comes for the Armenians, NO. The world as well as the US and Israel are on the side of the Genocidal turks.

Well no, I meant it would be cheaper to build the pipeline through Armenia but her not so friendly neighbors wouldn't be able to attack so easily knowing that Armenia can stop the flow of oil as part of a resistance fight. So I have no doubt that there are plans to wage war against Armenia in the not so distant future. Luckily it now has Artsakh as a buffer zone. Israel only looks out for its own interests (I know... duh) and it has a strong presence in all of the dominant countries in the world which is why it can "persuade" leaders of countries to make policies against their own people. The situation is bad all around no matter what angle you take.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Well no, I meant it would be cheaper to build the pipeline through Armenia but her not so friendly neighbors wouldn't be able to attack so easily knowing that Armenia can stop the flow of oil as part of a resistance fight. So I have no doubt that there are plans to wage war against Armenia in the not so distant future. Luckily it now has Artsakh as a buffer zone. Israel only looks out for its own interests (I know... duh) and it has a strong presence in all of the dominant countries in the world which is why it can "persuade" leaders of countries to make policies against their own people. The situation is bad all around no matter what angle you take.

I am well aware the situation of Israel and the Zionists and their dominancy in all the powerful countries of the world. But what I want to know is this; why after having their own Talaat Pasha who systematically exterminated at least 70% of our population within our homeland; what do they want from us? Why do they loathe, abominate, abhor and passionately hate us so much?

[Army]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Beacuse they think Armenia and Diaspora are trying to partition Turkey.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Beacuse they think Armenia and Diaspora are trying to partition Turkey.

It wouldn't surprise me if Turkey gets partitioned into provinces after entry into the EU.