I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

[Vagharshapat]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

I am sure that all the Armenians are sick and tired of answering your ignorant claims. It is obvious that you know nothing more than the official thoughts of the Turkish government. But I will try to answer all of your claims because I am sick and tired of this denial machine.

First we begin by the historical background of the genocide. Ottomans were an Islamic empire and their aim was to conquer the world and build an Islamic empire. This was called Nizam-ı Alem. They found in themselves the right to conquer and administer the world. They were considering themselves the flag-carrier(bayraktar) of Islam and taking their power from Quran. So how were they spreading the Islam? According to Quran Tevbe Suresi; it says "Fight with them until they accept Islam as the "Haq(true) religion" or they accept to pay cizye(a special tax). And when they conquer a land if the people were Christians they were paying more taxes and preserving their religion. Now this was a dream world for the Ottomans, they were thinking that everbody was happy in the empire, Islam was the latest religion so the christians were supposedly happy to serve the latest religion, everybody was content with this heaven-on-earth empire. But the christians didnt think the same as Ottomans because they were NOT thinking that Islam was the true religion, according to them it was the false religion, so they were looking for a chance to throw off the yoke. They didnt want to be the inferior religion and inferior people. Because they had a different culture and a different way of life. They had the right to blossom their own culture. Lets take Greeks for example, they had a culture thousands of years older than the Turks, and also a more advanced culture than the Turks,(not to mention that all mathematical, architectural, medical, biological, political, philosophical terms are Greek!) but they were serving the Turks and at last they rebelled in 1821 and gained their independence. So according to you, Greeks were traitors and had to be loyal to Ottomans.

There are lots of things but lets come to the point. Ottoman Empire was a prison for people. There was inequity. For example a witnessing of a Christian was not valid against a muslim at the court. Or it was forbidden for them to toll their church bells, they couldnt build new churches without permission. Also it was forbidden for them to ride a horse or possess a gun or to walk on the pavement when encountering a muslim. The color of their clothes had to be different. For example the hats and shoes of the Armenians had to be red, the Greeks black, the Jevs blue. They also had to paint their houses to different colours. It was also forbidden to wear takunyas(wooden slipper) in the hammams(Turkish bath) and they had to attach their pestemals(bath cloth) a bell. It was forbidden to build a house taller than a muslim's house. It was forbidden to make a window facing the muslim neighbourhoods. So this empire was becoming more corrupt by the mid-19th century. It was way behind the contemporaneity. Europe was proggressing and it was the time of illumination in that day. This wouldnt go on. Armenians were suffocating because they were in close touch with the west. Ottomans made some innovations(islahat) but they were not enough.

Now if we come to Armenians; it was Abdulhamid's time and Armenians were ONLY demanding equity. So in the Berlin conference Ottomans accepted to make some reforms. But Abdulhamid didnt keep his promise and chose the policy to opress Armenians. So he formed the Hamidiye Brigades. These brigades consisted of Kurdish cavalry men in the Eastern Anatolia. Now as we mentioned before the Armenians were NOT ALLOWED to possess guns. Kurds used this into their advantage and began to opress and persecute the Armenians. They were raiding the villages, plundering them, forcing them to pay, arbitrary killing people and kidnapping the women. So the situation for the Armenians became very insecure at that time. So they began to get armed to DEFEND themselves. It was the time when Dashnaksutyun was established. The aim of Dashnaks wasn't to have a independent state at the beginning they never demanded something like that, they were only trying to get their rights. In Abdulhamid's time 300.000 Armenians were killed. You can guess the HATE background.

Now these Dashnaks were a revolutionary group and they were trying to overthrow Abdulhamid. But at that time everybody was trying to overthrow Abdulhamid because he was oppressing everybody. His period was named as "Istibdat Devri"(Period of Opression) Ittihat and Terakki was established at that time. They were formed in Salonika by some young Ottoman officers and they were trying to overthrow Abdulhamid and form a new administration called "mesrutiyet"(constitutional monarchy). Their parole was "Equity, Justice and Freedom" like the French revolution. Everybody believed in them and supported them. Armenians also supported them and they made alliance with the Dashnaks. If they knew what will happen to them 7 years later! And they overthrew Abdulhamid in 1908. They seemed to form an empire where every people were living in harmony. But there was something wrong, their ideology was crippled as we will see in the 1.Wold War. Their ideology wasnt so different from their predecessors but this time there was an even more Turkish Nationalism concept. Infact nothing was changed, according to them Turks were the superiors and everbody else were serving them. They didnt change their mind about the superiority of Islam and an Islamic empire administering all people. I mean they hadnt become democrats at one night. They were being fed by the racist ideas of the famous Turkist Ziya Gokalp. The muslim people in the empire were murmuring about the rights given to the Christians. Because the Christians were walking more proudly in the empire right now. And the first indicident broke out in Adana in 1909. The muslims attacked the Christians and 30000 Armenians were killed. The Ittihat and Terakki had showed their ugly face. There was a mutual mistrust between the Turks and the Christians. But even though the Armenians didnt break their alliance. But the conditions were going worse and of course they were thinking about independence. Because it was every nation's right to determine their fate. 1912 was the turning point. Balkan War break out and every nation was declaring their independence one by one, it was obvious that they werent happy with this corrupted empire. Even the muslim Albanians revolted against the Ottomans. If the Ottomans had forgotten about their selfish prides and awaken from their dream world and given proper autonomies to their subjects maybe these wouldnt happen. But they were intolerant. The losing of Balkans created great fear over the Ottomans. But this didnt change their emperialist aims. These Pan-Turkists' real aim was to connect to Mid-Asia and form a great Turan Empire. It was the dream of Enver Pasha. Also there was the oil issue. These Jev-controlled sabbataist Pashas were very well aware of the land from eastern anatolia to Baku was bearing oil deposits. But there was a slight problem, there was an obstacle called Armenians between Anatolia and Middle Asia. They set their eyes there. It was a plan to wipe out Armenians before 1.World War. But the first world war was a great opportunity to reach their aims.

Ottomans didnt enter the World War by mistake as we have learned at schools. Thats a great lie. Ittihat and Terakki considered Germans an invincible military force and they thought they could reach their aims if they allied with Germans. So the Ottomans entered the World War with emperialist aims. They were competing with the other emperialists. It is not as you say an anti-emperialist war. They were on the attacking side. Ottomans bombarded the Russian ports and entered the war. In 1914 because of Enver Pasha's great greediness and clumsy attempt in Sarikamis the army was routed and the bill was on Armenians. So the conditions were met. The sheath was ready. Armenians were betraying the Ottomans. But in fact because of the mutual mistrust and out of fear to be killed by the Ottomans, the Armenian-Ottoman soldiers were running away from the army and seeking refuge with the Russians and they were right because all of the Ottoman-Armenian soldiers would be killed soon. First they disarmed the Armenian soldiers and formed amele(worker) brigades from them. Then at the time of deportation every single one of them were killed.

The law of deportation came into force. The peasants were not informed properly. The gendarmes were raiding the villages and taking all the men away. So as you mentioned not all the Turkish soldiers were at the front. All these men's heads were cut off. Before deportation a secret organisation called Teskilat-ı Mahsusa had been formed. It was consisted of criminals convicted of rape, murder, robbery. They chose these men specially from the prisons to serve their aim. And they sent them to all over Anatolia where Armenians were living. Their target was to attack the Armenian convoys and do their undercover job. Also they commisioned the Kurds, Cherkess and Chechens to carry out this dirty job. They were very happy with their jobs because the loot was too great: The Armenian Gold! The plan was on "Armenians Never Coming Back". If they were to overcome these criminal gangs and make it to end, the destination was the desert in Syria. So there was no coming back. It is an evidence that Ottomans quickly located some immigrants from the Balkans to the houses of Armenians. Armenians couldnt take their belongings with them. They were robbed all the way. Even their clothes were robbed. There was even no bread to eat. They were eating grass. The convoys were being attacked, women were raped and kidnapped. People were committing suicide and threw themselves and their children into the rivers. Many of them couldnt make it until the end. And the ones that reached the desert were slaughtered like sheep by Kurds, Chechens and Cherkess. Only so little could survive by chance. Whole families disappeared. It was sure a genocide. It was a total disaster. They left them to death. They cleansed 80 percent of them intentionally. They plundered their belongings and became richer and richer. And this republic is built on the belongings and the bones of Armenians. These are facts. Hundreds of people are telling the same things. So please dont ask these people again some absurd questions and offend their feelings, ok?

[Sip]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

And I advise you to come Turkey and start to search Ottoman archives instead of some forums.

No thank you. I value my life and freedom. I have seen what Turkey does to anyone who dares to say anything remotely against "turkishness". So whether I come there or not, it is obvious that for now, Turkey only wants to hear one thing.

[tirvana]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

If you want "evidence", just start reading the archives of this forum

And I advise you to come Turkey and start to search Ottoman archives instead of some forums.
And I would want to see the armenian archives in armenia, but the archives is not open there.(maybe they could't produce something on formal documents)

[tirvana]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

This is where most Turks who show here seem to be looking for the "evidences". And of course all they find is ...

Thanks , you re always the best in producing imaginary things

[Sip]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

If you want "evidence", just start reading the archives of this forum before creating a thread on a topic that has been discussed and put to sleep hundreds of times. You are also encouraged to search many other forums on the same topic. Unless you have something new to bring to the table, just showing up and saying "there is no evidence" is, for the lack of a better word, "stupid".

[Sip]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

.... But there must be some evidences.

This is where most Turks who show here seem to be looking for the "evidences". And of course all they find is ...

[tirvana]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

You dont understand, there is always a reason for genocide. A genocide is not only exterminating one race with a racist reason or out of hate, it can be exterminating a race for any reason, for example a political reason, a pragmatic reason what ever it can be. Even the genocide of Jevs had a pragmatic reason, because the Jevs owned the economical, the political power, the universities, the press, commerce in Europe. I say: WHATEVER the reason is there is a Planned, Organised GENOCIDE! This is the Truth and nobody can deny that.

Are you kidding? If one race in the country rebel, there is a war. How can you named a war as a genocide. throughout 600 years, why there arent a skirmi. How were there many armenians who are deputy, minister and manager in some goverment services in Ottoman Empire at that time. What a kind of nonsense you mention about? Dıd Jevs rebel or began to kill german people with the aim of founding a country?
If one race begin to fight another, this means other side will fight , too. How can you claim a systematic and planned genocide? Did turks wanted armenians to start a fight at the time of world War I? Ad you equated Holocaust with this issue. Are you OK?

I have read lots of accounts about it. You are so naive about this "tehcir". You have no information about what happened, because you have never read about the victims and eyewitnesses and you are still talking.

Yes, we alwyas hear many many stories everytime. But there must be some evidences. I want to ask something ; Turkish goverment always says "We have already opened our archives to those who claim there was a genocide. If they are sincere, they should also open theirs. This would allow historians to work on documents on both sides and team of historians from both sides should conduct studies in these archieves"11 March 2005. However Armenian side says there is no need to discuss the Armenian allegations, because they are already "proven". Armenian Foreign Minister Oskanyan said the problem is "political" and Armenia does not need to discuss the ‘genocide’ argument with the Turkish side. Why these people hasitate to discuss this situation. They have a chance to prove "genocide" to all of the world, but they hasitate...

[Vagharshapat]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

You dont understand, there is always a reason for genocide. A genocide is not only exterminating one race with a racist reason or out of hate, it can be exterminating a race for any reason, for example a political reason, a pragmatic reason what ever it can be. Even the genocide of Jevs had a pragmatic reason, because the Jevs owned the economical, the political power, the universities, the press, commerce in Europe. I say: WHATEVER the reason is there is a Planned, Organised GENOCIDE! This is the Truth and nobody can deny that. I have read lots of accounts about it. You are so naive about this "tehcir". You have no information about what happened, because you have never read about the victims and eyewitnesses and you are still talking.

[tirvana]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

But when they claimed independence and threatened the empire's sovereignty, Ottomans didnt hasitate to exterminate them

what do you mean by saying exterminate? Of course while people who claim independence, not just claim, they have guns, they battle against to other side with whom they had lived for 600 years. At that time also innocent 200.000 turks were killed by armenian gangs in Anatolia,so Armanians aren't always victim or innocent people, they know also to kill
And it was a deportation. And they were not deported another country, they were deported another region which belongs to the empire. If the empire hadn't deported them, they would have been killed by some turks whose relatives killed by some armenian gangs. what should the Ottoman empire have done instead of deportation?
And Imperialism give armenians a hope and they were in the military uniforms of France, all of which were given by france to armenians so that these armenians died instead of france soldiers (it explains current situation very well). It is really very tragic situation. And yes turks are savage , cause they were betrayed by armenians, they defend their home against not only to russia, great britain, italy, france, greece but also against to some traitors at home. Turks beated imperialsm at that time, but imperialist games will continue always...

[BARIŞ]

Re: I am,as a Turk,really sorry for the genocide

Like I said, what country in the world likes Turks. They would get a lot of respect if they were to just admit what they did in 1915.

Throughout history,Turks have mostly been the ones ruling,whether well or not.So it is natural that Turks have gained some hatred.Other cases have derived from that Turks have not needed to get some praise.
Turks are self-sufficient in terms of getting respect.Being loved or hated by 70 millions is of enough significance.