Armenian Georgian Relations

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Word up!

Possible Option......Plan and pre-empt Azerbaijan, we have every right to do so due to their agressive behavor and a clear and present danger to Armenia's security and sovereignty.

The road to Western Armenia is through the East, says I.

[levon]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

There must be a direct causa belli for us to attack or else our reputation will be greatly tarnished in the international arena. .

F#ck reputation! In the greater scope of things, the reputation doesn't matter. All matters is who has control, and who can maintain control. If a state has and maintains control of an area, then after a short time no-one would give a damn. Winners, by definition, didn't lose, so regardless of the cause, the losers will label them as fascists.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

You are living in the Caucasus, our enemies will not give us the stability we want. I would want noting more than to live in Armenia and never hear about a war in my life, but that is not how the world is. War is a part of humanity and war will be there for ever.
The moment we aren't ready to fight for what is ours and expand it, that is the moment we will lose everything we have. A little propaganda and they will be ready to fight for the glory of Armenia, and give land to the soldiers in the new areas. Get professional soldiers have ten children and get them in the army. Reform the army, make it less corrupt, make it a place where Armenians become men and are doing what they are meant to do. And punish those that don't go, make it an act of honor and dignity, and act of padiv to have served in the Armenian army, see what will happen when you do that.

Than we need to develop that area, we need to develop our arms industry. We need to get a huge banking sector that can support the arms industry.
And xxxx the world, what good things has a good standing brought us?

There must be a direct causa belli for us to attack or else our reputation will be greatly tarnished in the international arena. So Georgians have to start ethnically cleansing or persecuting Armenians for us to get involved. But even with that how do you think we will survive if we are blockaded on 3 fronts? And Iran itself also being blockaded by almost the whole world doesn't do us any good. In order to build such a grand army also requires a lot of money and governmental effort. Not many countries will support us because we have nothing to offer (no oil, ocean, gas, etc.) And creating such a huge arms industry will also be very difficult. Remember we are a country of 3 million, and we are not like Israel or Azerbaijan which are of great interest to the world because of the resources/position.

How has the 2000 years before that been any different? Or the problem is that it's Islam? I don't think you would have had any problems with me saying we should attack Iran.

I look at all the times Islamic empries have tried to invade us and kill our Armenian identity. Islam was used by the Turks to massacre us, and I look at how many Islamic countries banded together during the Karabakh war and sent money, weapons, and soldiers to Azeris, or how Islamic extremists actively fought on the Azeri side. But despite all that, I don't hate Muslims as I'm not a bigot, nor will I hate any person for their religion. I hate it when certain Muslims preach for the killing of the infidel or preaching active violence, but I doubt any person in their right mind supports that.

Why the hell would I support an attack on Iran. The Iran-Azeri rivalry is good for us, and has created favourable conditions as Iran supports us in order to counterbalance this rivalry. But remember if it wasn't for this rivalry or the issue of Azeri in Northern Iran, I doubt Iran would support us, or be neutral in the Karabakh issue. Yet another example of being "friends" in order to full-fill their self-interest, as the only reason Iran is friends with us now is because of that rivalry, not because they think we are their "brothers" or other BS reasons like that.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Even in 10 years we are going to be developing and growing, war can cripple a country especially a country like ours for many years, it can set back growth, and people will suffer. Remember you are forcing young men, some of which will most surely be my cousins and family, to fight a war and many of them will die. Many I can assure you will have no desire to fight, many in today Armenia try to do everything in order to get out of army. And in an event of such a war, our only route out will be the tiny border with Iran, where the roads and infrastructure is still very weak. We cannot put all our economic hope on Iran, even if we've had good relations so far. Remember relations between countries are dynamic. In all this war is suicide for us, not that we wouldn't win, but that it will harm us across the board, set our country back, put it into another dark age, harm our international standing, and so on.

You are living in the Caucasus, our enemies will not give us the stability we want. I would want noting more than to live in Armenia and never hear about a war in my life, but that is not how the world is. War is a part of humanity and war will be there for ever.
The moment we aren't ready to fight for what is ours and expand it, that is the moment we will lose everything we have. A little propaganda and they will be ready to fight for the glory of Armenia, and give land to the soldiers in the new areas. Get professional soldiers have ten children and get them in the army. Reform the army, make it less corrupt, make it a place where Armenians become men and are doing what they are meant to do. And punish those that don't go, make it an act of honor and dignity, and act of padiv to have served in the Armenian army, see what will happen when you do that.

Than we need to develop that area, we need to develop our arms industry. We need to get a huge banking sector that can support the arms industry.
And xxxx the world, what good things has a good standing brought us?

Yes we've lived the last 1400 years next to Muslims, and thus the last 1400 years have been filled with chaos, wars, and massacres. Stability for our people as a result has been a high luxury.

How has the 2000 years before that been any different? Or the problem is that it's Islam? I don't think you would have had any problems with me saying we should attack Iran.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Have you even read my first post, nobody is talking going to war now I'm talking about in 10 years after Artsakh is settled de-jure. After that we need a struggle to keep our army strong and to create a bigger influence for Armenia. Israel and NATO and every other power go to war from time to time why do you think that is? Because war has a meaning war brings power and war brings a stronger army in the end.
How do you think Javakh issue is going to be solved? There aren't many options left for us to help our brothers there. Georgia is abusing the fact that we are tied down in Artsakh.
And get your fear for Muslims out of your head, Armenia has lived next to Muslims the last 1400 years and will live as long as that religion exists. And Iran has done more for Armenians than Georgia ever will do or has done to this day.

Even in 10 years we are going to be developing and growing, war can cripple a country especially a country like ours for many years, it can set back growth, and people will suffer. Remember you are forcing young men, some of which will most surely be my cousins and family, to fight a war and many of them will die. Many I can assure you will have no desire to fight, many in today Armenia try to do everything in order to get out of army. And in an event of such a war, our only route out will be the tiny border with Iran, where the roads and infrastructure is still very weak. We cannot put all our economic hope on Iran, even if we've had good relations so far. Remember relations between countries are dynamic. In all this war is suicide for us, not that we wouldn't win, but that it will harm us across the board, set our country back, put it into another dark age, harm our international standing, and so on.

Yes we've lived the last 1400 years next to Muslims, and thus the last 1400 years have been filled with chaos, wars, and massacres. Stability for our people as a result has been a high luxury.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Armenia to Georgia: Quit Your Wine-ing
January 26, 2011 - 2:38pm, by Yigal Schleifer
Kebabistan Food and politics
Is the Caucasus region about to see the birth of yet another local spat? As News.AZ reports, Georgia and Armenia appear to be heading into a battle over the use of brand names, especially regarding wine. From the report:


Georgian media are urging President Mikheil Saakashvili to raise with his Armenian counterpart the use of Georgian brand names by Armenian producers.
Saakashvili is to pay an official visit to Armenia In late February-early March.

The media are urging him to prick the conscience of the Armenian side at the negotiations with President Serzh Sargsyan and to protect the interests of Georgian producers, Russian newspaper Vzglyad's correspondent reports from Tbilisi.

Georgia's patent agency has already begun investigations of the use of Georgian brand names by Armenian producers.

The head of the agency, Irakliy Gvaladze, said this was "not the first time that Armenia had tried to steal Georgian brands”.


Armenian officials, meanwhile, have hit back at the Georgian claims, saying their brands are better recognized abroad so they wouldn't even need to use their neighbor's brand names.

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62776

its probably bullxxxx considering the first report came from news.az

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Starting another war? You don't understand how much Armenia needs stability right now, a war with Georgia would devastate us, and would devastate our infrastructure, economy, and in the end the people. We've barely gotten on our feet after the 90s, why the hell plunge Armenia into a repetition of dark years? Plus attacking Georgia will mean that we will be blocked on 3 fronts, so I have no idea how Armenia will survive like that, and who knows maybe Iran one day chooses to join their Muslim compatriots. This would be the worst thing for Armenia I don't understand how you can support creating a new conflict like that, after Karabakh is solved, let us improve our country, get rid of corruption, improve education, infrastructure. Let us make a better country and for once have some stability in this chaotic region.

Have you even read my first post, nobody is talking going to war now I'm talking about in 10 years after Artsakh is settled de-jure. After that we need a struggle to keep our army strong and to create a bigger influence for Armenia. Israel and NATO and every other power go to war from time to time why do you think that is? Because war has a meaning war brings power and war brings a stronger army in the end.
How do you think Javakh issue is going to be solved? There aren't many options left for us to help our brothers there. Georgia is abusing the fact that we are tied down in Artsakh.
And get your fear for Muslims out of your head, Armenia has lived next to Muslims the last 1400 years and will live as long as that religion exists. And Iran has done more for Armenians than Georgia ever will do or has done to this day.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

I never thought there is friendship between two nations not even between Cyprus and Greece or Turkey and Azerbaijan, when time comes they will fight each other like every other nation.
That is what i've been saying all along that we should forget the notion of Georgians being our allies or anything else they are our next enemy. After the Artsakh war is finished our next war will be in Javakh.

Starting another war? You don't understand how much Armenia needs stability right now, a war with Georgia would devastate us, and would devastate our infrastructure, economy, and in the end the people. We've barely gotten on our feet after the 90s, why the hell plunge Armenia into a repetition of dark years? Plus attacking Georgia will mean that we will be blocked on 3 fronts, so I have no idea how Armenia will survive like that, and who knows maybe Iran one day chooses to join their Muslim compatriots. This would be the worst thing for Armenia I don't understand how you can support creating a new conflict like that, after Karabakh is solved, let us improve our country, get rid of corruption, improve education, infrastructure. Let us make a better country and for once have some stability in this chaotic region.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

I bought that book a while ago, haven't read it yet. I also believe that the rich and powerful Armenians were involved in selling us out but that's an entirely different topic. I agree that we have to help ourselves but it's also easier to use others to do your dirty work than doing it yourself. For example, Syria was supposed to have been given Sanjak province which is now Hatay in modern day Turkey. There are also the Kurds which are a huge rebel force inside Turkey. Creating more friction between these age old grievances is what politics is all about. Dividing and conquering is easier than conquering by force.

Georgia really can't do much for Armenia, it's best to just remain neutral and pretend to be friends.

You should read it, the book gives an insight to what happened from the position of one of the leaders of the Armenian nation. About Armenians being involved in the genocide I got one thing to say, the 250 people that were arrested on 24th of April the list with their names was made by an Armenian.

Yes that is also a part of what I'm saying, using other to do what you want, is also a part of imperialism. But when you say stop at some border, that is the point I say go to where ever we want once Armenia stretched all the way to Egyptian border so why not in 200 years?

You really have to get over the notion that in this world there are true "friends" between countries. The only thing that is close to a friendship is ethnic ties like between Turkey and Azerbaijan or Cyprus and Greece. Countries only care about their self-interests, you must understand that, and for their own gain they will do anything let it be supporting dictatorships or giving weapons to gain economically and politically. When it comes to things to offer, Armenia has very little. No ocean, no oil, few natural resources, so naturally not many countries are going to care about us. Azeris have oil, and for that they will be very popular, and Georgia has access to Black Sea and is a ideal transit country for gas piplelines to West.

Why is Russia good with us? It's not because they like us, or they like our culture, that is BS, it is because they can use us a strategic base militarily, and we are located in a crucial crossroad. If they can gain more by being good with our enemies they will sell us in a heartbeat, along with any alliance we ever be in.

So don't fall into the trap that countries have true "friends" or "allies", it's all an illusion, every country is just focused on its self gain and will ally itself with whatever country to get ahead, it's as simple as that. Alliances are also dynamic, long time allies can turn into staunch foes in a heartbeat.

I never thought there is friendship between two nations not even between Cyprus and Greece or Turkey and Azerbaijan, when time comes they will fight each other like every other nation.
That is what i've been saying all along that we should forget the notion of Georgians being our allies or anything else they are our next enemy. After the Artsakh war is finished our next war will be in Javakh.

[levon]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

For example, Syria was supposed to have been given Sanjak province which is now Hatay in modern day Turkey. There are also the Kurds which are a huge rebel force inside Turkey. Creating more friction between these age old grievances is what politics is all about. Dividing and conquering is easier than conquering by force.

I think there are already many outside forces that wish for more tensions to originate from the Kurds. If in addition to that, we aid in the introduction of liberal values that will destroy Turkish identity and wussify the average Turk, our troubles will ease. I think that's already on the way as well.