Elections in Armenia

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

The hayastansi-karabaghi conflict is one of the forces stirring the unrest. Its what is bringing Armenians together on streets half a world away from Armenia.

Face it, there are some Hayastansis that do not like Karabaghis running the country. They are sick of it.

And it is short-sighted, narrow-minded, immature, illiterates like Armenian and other members of the Axis of Stupidity that are hurting Armenia by causing diasporans to become disenchanted with their homeland and their countrymen.

It comes down to comparative advantage: why would an educated, successful professional Armenian in the diaspora want to move from a imperfect democracy where freedom of press and expression is protected to an impeccable tryanny where Soviet-style censorship still exists or spend their disposable income on donating to Armenia in lieu of spending it on themselves, their family and other non-Armenian charitable causes when Armenian goverment and leaders cannot uphold the rule of law, apply it unevenly or disregard it all together when their own rule is being protested peacefully.

Sargsyan was aware of the discontent of Hayastansis over the rule of Armenia by Karabaghis. Otherwise, why would he opt to build a coalition government when he won the election by a landslide and that, but for some irregularities, was fair and free? Because he wanted to show the opposition how weak he was.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Sound like Ron Paul...look how well he's doing

The point is, if someone like Ron Paul managed to get a national following (its virtually impossible because the state/corporate controlled news media will tear him apart) what would happen to him??? In many ways, developing nations are more democratic than any major power in the West. But is takes some depth to realize this...

Like I aid earlier:

In my opinion, Armenia is a nation today that has just expressed much more "democracy" and "free elections" than any of the major western powers, including US, Britain, Germany and France. The Armenian Republic today (as usual) is stuck between two very drastic approaches in politics. Does anyone here think an equivalent of a 'Levon Petrosian' in western nations could get far, let alone organize a coup d'etat? By a western equivalent Levon Petrosian I mean a western politician that will try to drastically and abruptly change the course of politics.

Ask yourself: What would happen to an American politicians if he/she ran on the following platform: abandoning Israel; abandoning oil Arab producing states in the Mideast; effectively shutting down the Mexican border; brining the troops home from Japan, Korea, Europe, Iraq and other places; giving Kosovo back to Serbia; wanting friendly relations with Cuba and Russia; locking up corrupt corporate executives in the oil industry and arms industry; etc...

What do you think will happen to this politician? The answer is obvious if you understand the mechanism of politics and economy. And the funny part is, a large portion of population here in America may even support such a politician. Why don't they bring the troops in Iraq home? Why don't they provide free eduction and heath care to all citizens? Why don't they bring industrial production back home to America? Why don't they close-off the Mexican border? Why don't they abandon Arabs and Israelis to their fates? Why don't they stop antagonizing Russia? The answer is, regardless of what the 'people' want, the issues I mentioned above do not serve or fit the national interest of the nation's political/economic elite.

So, what happed to a real democracy?

The fact of the matter is there are no free and fair elections in the US. Elections in the US is merely a two ring circus. Democrat, Republican - they are the same shit, different asshole.

Simply put, America has not had the masses running amok and blowing things up in the streets because the standard of living here is still very high. Incidentally, the standard of living here is high because the political/financial elite do not take into concideration the sentiments of the masses...

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Vazgen Manukian

Vazgen Manukian's comments about LTP late last year:

Note: Vazgen Manukian is a true politician and a true intellectual. Highly intelligent and instrumental in the creation of the Armenian republic in the early 1990s, Vazgan is perhaps the most respected Armenian politician in Armenia today. In 1996, Vazgen Manukyan had clearly and by a large margin won the national vote for presidency. Levon's administration blatantly stole the vote from Manukyan. Manukyan's supporters went to the streets to protest. Levon Petrostian immediately sent in the tanks to crush the demonstrations. For what they are worth, the West had to admit that the elections were stolen. Although I do not adhere to the BS concepts of Freedom and Democracy, especially in the Caucasus and amongst the ignorant masses - perhaps not 53 percent, but Serzh Sargsayan clearly won more votes than Levon in Armenia...

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Ռոբերտ Քոչարյանի



R. Kocharyan interview on L.Ter-Petrosyan's protests Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4noPe0N0s
R. Kocharyan interview on L.Ter-Petrosyan's protests Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeoVS...eature=related
R. Kocharyan interview on L.Ter-Petrosyan's protests Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ssk-...eature=related

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I heard some strong warnings from Kocharian and Tigran Torosyan that the men who organized this (levon effendi and his team) are going to pay for what they did. I hope they will be brought to justice and have to spend the rest of their lives in prison.

I want to see them dead.

Armenian you forgot to add one person to your list of traitors that need to be executed:

Nikol Pashinyan



This man was calling on the police yesterday night during the rallies to join the protectors and give up their loyalty to the ruling government.

The entire group of demons that organized this bloody fiasco need to die.

Armenian I agree with what you said and that you kind of saw this coming or did expect such a thing could happen shows that you know what you talk about.

It's not a matter of knowing what I'm talking about, it's simply a matter of being 'aware' of what is around you. I am amazed at how simple minded and shallow the majority of people are, even the highly educated ones. I wanted the authorities to crack down hard on the rebellion the very day after the election. I knew there was a high chance for some thing like this to happen. How did I know this? Do I posses extraordinary intelligence? No. I was simply paying attention to what they were saying from their podiums...

For me this was really unexpected. However I don't think that you can call all the protestors of levon enemies or traitors. I bet there were a lot of people there who were just tired of the social conditions and were hoping for a better life and a populist leader like levon speaks to the mind of these people. They saw him as their only chance to get a better life. I'm not saying that they did the right thing I'm just saying that we should view these things from different perspectives. The only ones that really need to be punished are levon and his team.

I would only want to see the punishment/public hanging of Levon and his team. The people, are people. However, I would not make any excuses for the rioting idiots because they lived through the Levon years, they should know better. I wonder how many of them would say they lived better under Levon than they do now? I don't have much respect or warm feeling towards perhaps 1/3 of the population there. They have proven to be sheeple. Yes, they have all the excuses to want change. But change at what expense and in the name of who? A treasonous criminal that was ousted by the people merely ten years ago?

As far as I'm concerned Kocharyan f***ed up. He should have reacted to the illegal demonstrations immediately and not wait ten days. He wanted to be patient and play nice and he got screwed. The authorities have the fundamental obligation to ensure the internal stability of the nation even if this means killing thousands of your citizens.

Wakeup from your Utopian fantasies, this is the real world.

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I am a supporter of democratic values. However the road to demarcate is not the same for all the courtiers and real democracy is not achieved overnight. In case of Armenia (I strongly belief) we should not be in hurry; As it might turn to be a deadly mistake.
IMO The priorities are
Stability and security (for obvious reasons) strong army and security services.
Strong national unity (Here we need to promote healthy nationalism)
Good economy (lesser chance creating bustards that ready to sell the country out)

And some time after, when country will be on a stable path democracy should be gradually introduced.

Yes….and if we need a guy like Pinochet for start so let it be!

Very well said, Artandsky.

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Does anybody have any information about manvel grigoryan’s involvement on this? Coupe of weeks ago there was a rumor that Manvel and Seyran Ohanyan were on the side of criminals. I didn’t believe the rumor about Seyran, and his appearance on TV yesterday confirmed that he is not one of them. However, I am not so sure about Manvel. By the way, there was another rumor that Manvel occupied Airport two days ago, which turned out to be false. Also, I think raffi hovhannisyan and stepan demirchian should be included on your list.

Don't believe the rumors. General Seyran Ohanian is the finest military leader we have today. He is truly a professional and a nationalist.

The corrupt, drug addicted pig of Etchmiadzin, Manvel Grigorian, was involved. I don't know to what extent. You know what's funny? LTP supporters, who are supposedly leading a fight against corruption and injustice were jubilant to hear that a nasty corrupt maniac like Mavel was on their side. Just think of that for a moment. Raffi Hovanissian is an empty headed egotistical pig. Killing him is a waste of time and bad PR. Just throw his ass on an airplane and dump him off in California. And yes, add Stepan Demirchian to the list as well. I knew I was missing someone...

This bloody ordeal was a great embarrassment to the Armenian nation. I fault Kocharyan, he should have crushed the movement from the first day. Every single one of the low lives involved in this attempted coup d'etat needs to be killed, imprisoned or expelled from the nation. As long as the authorities are weak these types of anti-national uprisings will occur periodically. Being a small nation surrounded by enemies, we can't afford to tolerate this kind of irresponsible behavior on the part of the people. Lastly, I hope the authorities wake up and realize that a significant portion of the population today is desperate and make appropriate changes accordingly...

A friend of mine from Armenia just sent me this email:

Im qroj txan Artsach-um e tsaraium, asum e, ais amenits ogtvel en porzel turqer@, es 2 or@ mi 30 metr dirqer@ araj en berel, 3 hogu el spanel en zorqerits. Ais ameni mexq@ ankaskats Robertinn e, vor es 10 tari HHsh-i verj@ chtvets, ev drants amboxj banak@, vor mijin oxaki pashtonnerum ein, aintex el mnatsel ein, esor irents tsuits tvetsin. Levon-in pahox Grzo anunov multimilloner@, vor asel er 1 billion talis em es sharzman@, ir poxer@ vastakel er Levoni zamanak Artsach-i krvi hamar havaqvats gumarner@ juratsnelov, u minchev hima lav aprum er, voch te bantum. Baits chvaxes, amen inch lav klini. Sra lav koxm@ na e, vor uzen te chuzen, HHShi kadrerits kazatven, ham el irents hamar das klini, mi qich zoxovrdi masin el mtatsen.

Translation:

My sister's son, currently serving in Artsakh, said that Turks (Azeris) have attempt to gain from all this. During the last two days they have brought their positions 30 meters forward and have killed three of our soldiers. Without doubt this is Kocharyan's fault because he did not eliminate the HHSH party during the last ten years... Levon's keeper, Grzo, the multimillionaire who had said I will give one billion dollars to this movement, made his money during Levon's time in office by steeling money that was being collected for the Artsakh war effort... But do not be afraid, everything is going to be well...

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The entire bloody fiasco in Armenia has been more-or-less a battle between Armenian whores in Armenia and Armenians from Artsakhs. If anyone does not believe me just read Levin Petrostein's speeches, listen to his rhetoric, it's all meant to divide the people into two warring segments Armenians and Artsakhtsis. What's more, they are all mean to abandon every single national interests in the name of appeasement...

To hell with Levon. I want to see him and his team DEAD.

I want to see everyone that was involved in this failed coup d'etat imprisoned or executed.

I want to see every single western funded anti-government propaganda outlet such as A1 Plus, Hetq, Radio Liberty and Armenianow shut down...

I want to see every single western funded NGO subject to closure...

Does Sargasyan have the balls to do this? Do we Armenians have the balls to make Sargasyan to do this?

[Fedayeen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

All you idiots care is about is Pro-Western vs Pro-Russian. None of you care about the Armenian people those of you who like the current administration so much. Past 10 years nothing has been done to decrease the number of people trying to flee the country. Absolutely nothing.

People are sick and tired of all the bullxxxx going on in the country. People outside of Yerevan have no idea whats going on in the capitol.

None of them care about the future of our nation, if they cared anything they would stand by people to make sure people do not leave the country. But all they do is push people to the limit, those who can, leave. And those who can't, get xxxxed.

Did anyone see head of Armenian church with his servants standing next to him to blow cool air. Who the xxxx is he to think of himself higher then a regular person. I wish Vazgen 1st was still alive, we will never have another person like him. To stand by the people from begging till the end.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Armenia Assaulted by Orange Agents

Perhaps the empire just doesn’t get it. They need to re-examine their despicable, foolish and devious scheme to bring an orange scenario to an embattled, besieged Armenia. Under blockade by neighboring Turkey and Azerbaijan, Armenia continues to prosper despite some instances of corruption and economic isolation. Armenia is not fertile ground for any sort of orange scenario. Armenians are generally politically astute, pro-Russian and not easily swayed. They are also acutely aware of the fact that there is no future for them as vassals of the empire.

Armenian history is said to be 12,000 years old, and Mt. Ararat is the historic scene where Noah‘s Ark is said to have rested, a revered and treasured Armenian landmark. An archeologist’s dream come true, Armenia is a land of quaint churches and elaborately and meticulously carved khatchkars (Orthodox crosses). Constant and reliable, the centuries old friendship and alliance with Russia is unshakable. Most Armenians are aware of the fact that there probably would be no Armenia if not for Russia. No plots or schemes by the empire are going to change that reality.

The empire also wins no friends among Armenians for its consistent policy of Genocide denial. These policies go beyond the geo-political considerations given as an excuse, such as the US base in occupied Western Armenia, under control of Turkey and their alliances with Armenian enemies Turkey, Israel and Azerbaijan. And then there are the oil pipelines…constructed to bypass Armenia, a country in a strategic position between east and west, a crossroads as it were. As a result of the Armenian Genocide of 1894-1923, Armenians lost most of their homeland and over 1.5 million Armenians were murdered in the most horrendous and brutal fashion imaginable and unimaginable. To this day, no Nuremberg trials, no compensation or apology have occurred. Therefore, the memory of this tragedy in an ongoing issue of importance to Armenians.

In Armenia, Levon Ter-Petrosian is generally despised for his corrupt ruinous policies while President of Armenia. He is also despised for proffering the notion that the recently liberated Armenian land of Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh) should be returned to Azerbaijan. Artsakh is now an independent country. The US regime is financially backing Ter-Petrosian and causing trouble in the background. Ter-Petrosian had the strange idea that he had a snowball’s chance in hell of winning an election to be President. Fat chance. Now he sends agitators to do his bidding, a la Soros funding, all the best agitators money and the empire can buy.

On Public Armenian Television, Armenian Parliament Speaker Tigran Torosian told the following of his knowledge of events: “These people decided who the winner is five minutes after the election. This is their characteristic feature. I learned about my alleged resignation from journalists. Levon Ter-Petrosian and his team-mates have exhausted the sources of lies which exceed all possible borders,” the speaker said. “They spread lies about all and offense all those who are not with them. They are filled with hatred and revenge,” he said. "OK, let's say all the grenades, pistols and automatics were planted by the regime, what do you have to say about all those hooligans with rods and sticks, beating the police, throwing bricks and stones, burning cars including busses and an ambulance, looting shops and supermarkets?"

According to various local reports, 8 persons were killed in orange demonstrations as the Army was called in to restore the peace. They also report that Opera and Republican Square are swarming with army troops and military police armed to the teeth with AK-47s, belt-fed battle rifles and there are dozens of light tanks in both locations. In addition to that, there are troops scattered in posts all over the city and on all the roads into the city. One hundred and thirty-one persons were reported injured in the March 1 disturbances. An on the scene observer sent this report: "Hi, this morning I walked from the Opera House until Mashtoz Underpass. Everything was just fine. Police closed the underpass toward city hall and near the French embassy where they made a mess. My friend 8:30 at night went everywhere with the exception of closed areas and found calm...all shops are open and traffic is normal, 8 people got killed and about 30 people got arrested for looting, all young guys."

Interior troops and police officers suffered bullet wounds and injuries in the March 1 clashes with rioters in Yerevan. On his visit to the hospital, President Kocharian was accompanied by police chief Hayk Harutyunian and other officials. Kocharian went from one hospital ward to another and spoke to officers and servicemen. Hospital chief, Arthur Petrosian, said they admitted 33 wounded officers and servicemen on March 1 until 8.30 pm and 27 others after 9 pm. He said 11 received bullet wounds, eight were hospitalized with heavy symptoms of gas poisoning, 2 received knife wounds. Seven servicemen went to their quarters after receiving first aid and 11 others were operated on. The chief of the hospital said their condition is satisfactory now.

At the end of February, prior to the breakout of violence, a vehicle was apprehended trying to enter the country loaded with weapons and ammunition. On March 1, 2008, Armenia’s President Robert Kocharian declared a 2-day state of emergency in compliance of article 55.6 of the RA (Republic of Armenia) Constitution (threat to state and population security). Fortunately, anti-terrorist, anti-orange scenario joint exercises were held by Armenia and Russia in anticipation of such occurrences. Meanwhile the empire is mouthing duplicitous, hypocritical words about “excessive use of force.”

Secretary General of the Council of Europe, Terry Davis said, “The state of emergency suspends the application of several rights and freedoms protected by the European Convention on Human Rights. Under Article 15 of the Convention the Armenian Government must inform me of the measures which it has taken and the reasons therefore. I expect that they will do so without any delay,” the Council of Europe press division reports. The recent presidential elections in Armenia saw Serzh Sarksyan, Kocharian’s number two man, elected as President of Armenia. The voting result was unmistakable: Serzh Sarkisyan - 862,369 (52,82%) votes, Levon Ter-Petrosian – 351,222 (21,5%).votes.

The February 19th presidential elections were not only characterized as `free and fair' by the CIS observers, but also received the positive assessments of the Western observation missions. The observation mission of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, which stands out in terms of its strict and meticulous attitude towards the electoral processes held in former USSR territories, clearly recorded that, `The presidential elections held in Armenia on February 19 were mostly in line with the commitments to the OSCE and the Council of Europe.” But this didn’t satisfy the orange agitators. Kocharian, throughout his term as President, has had a warm, brotherly relationship with his counterpart in Russia, Vladimir Putin. Like the outgoing president, Robert Kocharian, Mr. Sarkisyan is from Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh). Both men were commanders in the war.

The newly elected Armenian President released this message to the people:

“Dear Compatriots, In consequence of the recent events, our people suffered great losses. There are casualties among policemen, who performed their duty, and among protesters, who fell under the influence of a group of people. Hundreds of civilians suffered from illegal acts of the radical opposition. Leaders of the co-called ‘movement’ made targets of their own supporters and policemen to suit their own ends. The initiators of disorders must answer for their deeds before the law, history and generations. With pain, I conceive that our compatriots fell victim to blind hatred of some individuals. I share your grief and wish you courage and strength to overcome this tragedy…”

As the cleanup crew mitigates the after effects of the recent lawlessness, one can only hope that the street sweepers will also sweep away the trash known as orange agent provocateurs and leave this proud, struggling nation in peace.

Source: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/col...rmeniaorange-0

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

All you idiots care is about is Pro-Western vs Pro-Russian. None of you care about the Armenian people those of you who like the current administration so much. Past 10 years nothing has been done to decrease the number of people trying to flee the country. Absolutely nothing.

People are sick and tired of all the bullxxxx going on in the country. People outside of Yerevan have no idea whats going on in the capitol.

None of them care about the future of our nation, if they cared anything they would stand by people to make sure people do not leave the country. But all they do is push people to the limit, those who can, leave. And those who can't, get xxxxed.

Did anyone see head of Armenian church with his servants standing next to him to blow cool air. Who the xxxx is he to think of himself higher then a regular person. I wish Vazgen 1st was still alive, we will never have another person like him. To stand by the people from begging till the end.

And let me ask you something, are you 100% sure you could control LTP and the frenzied mob he created? Are you 100% sure that LTP would then give up his own self interest for the Armenian people? And how can you gurantee that counter-revolution would not be ignited if indeed this trend of "revolution" was adopted? You are opting for a short term solution, the reality is that Armenia is feeling the pressures of capitalism, those "criminals" are not residue from the Soviet era, they are capitalist. This entire idea of "saving the people" and "standing by them" means squet in this day and age, the reality is that if its not "mafioso xyz" exploiting Armenians, it it some clean cut sophisticated corporation. My point is not to attack you, my point is to make sure you understand that "revolution", although it may be warrented, will only lead to more instability, instability in a region where 2 out of your 4 neighbors are at war with you, while the other 2 are on the fence, hedging their bets.

[Artandsky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

It is just a matter of civility.
Again…..even if you are right (presuming for opposition), if you are sure that election were staged, there are number of legal ways to prove it. Recount, appeal to court etc. Why would you create such a mess?
Right after election LTP at the end of his speech shouted from the stage “Minchev verch” it was obvious he was prepared to go “Orange”.
Another thing, According to “BBC radio” international observers that originally confirmed that the elections were generally up to standards, will review there statement and most probably will declare elections neither free nor fair. If it’s true, why such a sudden change of hearts I wonder?

[Fedayeen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

And let me ask you something, are you 100% sure you could control LTP and the frenzied mob he created? Are you 100% sure that LTP would then give up his own self interest for the Armenian people? And how can you gurantee that counter-revolution would not be ignited if indeed this trend of "revolution" was adopted? You are opting for a short term solution, the reality is that Armenia is feeling the pressures of capitalism, those "criminals" are not residue from the Soviet era, they are capitalist. This entire idea of "saving the people" and "standing by them" means squet in this day and age, the reality is that if its not "mafioso xyz" exploiting Armenians, it it some clean cut sophisticated corporation. My point is not to attack you, my point is to make sure you understand that "revolution", although it may be warrented, will only lead to more instability, instability in a region where 2 out of your 4 neighbors are at war with you, while the other 2 are on the fence, hedging their bets.

Nothing is guaranteed 100%, but people are need of change.

People are not 100% either. I been talking to hayastan, they would get paid 5000 dram to give out their votes, people got the money voted for Serj, and now they are out hunting him down Poor hungry people

Yes you are right, nation is under great risk, even right now. Current administration is not helping the situation and at this point on I don't think people even care what happens next.

[Gevork]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

FEDAYEEN you said that Levon was set free, but Anahit from Los Angeles, the lady that talked during the demonstrations in LA said that he is still under house arrest