Elections in Armenia

[Anonymouse]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I really don't understand what's wrong with you people in California. Can you please point out who today is claiming that "fraud" did not occur? Stop the stupid slogans, it undermines your intellectual integrity.

The fact of the matter is that fraud occurred on BOTH sides during the elections. However, it is natural that the authorities in power clearly had more advantages/tools in promoting their interests.

However, let's realize that this crisis is not about Serzh Sargsyan, it's about regional superpower politics. It's no secret that the West wants to see Armenia isolated/weakened due to Yerevan's close relations with Russia and Iran and due to Armenia's historic disputes with Azeris and Turks. So they, in the West, simply use the hungry masses in Armenia and delusional idiots in the diaspora to rise up against the unpopular government.

And let me make one thing perfectly clear - Levon supporters have absolutely no right in talking about democracy or human rights. During Levon's rule corruption and crime was at its worst, they utterly ruined the nation from inside out. What's more, Levon is a pro-Turk politician. Levon is the one that has been using anti-Artsakh rhetoric in his speeches. Levon is the one that attempted to undermine our victories in Artsakh and undermined the diaspora's genocide recognition efforts. What's more, we clearly see who is behind Levon - criminals like Grzo, Arzumanian, Manvel Grigorian. So, what right do Levon fans have in talking about democracy?! Its xxxxing bullshit. Before Levonakans set the country back ten years, Armenia was clearly heading in the right direction.

Face it, Levonakans xxxxed it up for us again. Study Armenian history, you will clearly see a line of "Levonakans" ruining things for us throughout history.

The bottom line is Levon had to be defeated, even if it meant canceling the entire election and putting Armenia under a dictatorship. This is not about Serzh, its not about Robert, its not about democracy, election fraud or human rights, this is about regional superpower politics and Armenia's survival in the Caucasus. Look past your personal feelings and realize that the existence of our nation is dependent upon its internal stability and international support. For the sake of longterm geopolitical reasons, responsible Armenians need to talk against the foolishness of the Levon camp.



Yes, its perfectly ok to kill, maim and jail individuals that are trying to undermine the state and overthrow the government by force. Wake up. At one time or another, such actions were taken by all nations on earth, including the most civilized ones. The fact of the matter is the masses in Armenia today are begin lead by foreign agents and criminals. So, I expect the government to show these traitors and criminals, and their naive/ignorant supporters in the public, no mercy what-so-ever.



Stop misrepresenting the issue to make yourself feel better. This is not about "disagreements and dissent," there has been quite a lot of such opposition in Armenia. You can find all forms of anti-government rhetoric, even today. This is about criminals and traitors manipulating the disgruntled people to overthrow the government by force. They have passed the line, that is why the authorities are cracking down on them. I suggest you wake up. And also realize that you are talking about the Caucasus.

Btw, why is it that American's favorite whores have the worst human rights records yet there is no American pressure on them? Could it be geopolitical calculations and the simple fact that no one really gives a xxxx about human rights and democracy? Nevertheless, under the circumstances, Armenia is (was) better at democracy the most nations on earth today.



Sadly, that fact that you even brought it up means that you do believe it. I just don't get you delusional people.



Wake up and see the real world around you before you make such foolish statements. This is not about Serzh Sargsyan, this is about having someone like Levon back into power. Levon and company simply want to replace the current corruption with their form of corruption. Faced with these choices - corrupt pro-Russian nationalists and corrupt pro-Turk ass-givers - I'll take the corrupt pro-Russian nationalists. I simply can't believe how foolish and illogical Levon supporters can be. You people are destroying the nation as we speak. It's amazing.

Annonymouse, I know you are a very smart individual, that is why your sentiments are deeply troubling for me. I don't understand what has come over our nation. Please, put aside personal feelings, open your eyes and see the bigger picture in all this. This crisis is not about Serzh Sargasyan, or Dodi Gago for that matter, this crisis is about serious regional superpower politics. Armenia's survival depends on its internal stability and international support.

Today, thanks Levonakans, we lost both.

I am not a supporter of Levon any more than Serzh. You do not have to assume that I am a supporter of Levon because I disagree with what is occurring. It makes no difference for me because I know in the end, it won't matter.

Regional power politics aside, and all dubious speculations about America's hand in this or that cookie jar aside, my only point is that, claiming that these elements who are trying to "undermine the state and overthrow the government by force" are disrupting Armenia's internal stability, is no different than levying the charge that the status quo has continued to erode the stability of Armenia, and the exodus of the population, by its own hand, and has continued to do so and undermine peoples' faith in that government, by beating women, children, or killing whoever else steps against the power of the state.

I am not for this or that political faction or political squabbling because that is not what interests me. That seems to be what interests most people who discuss this topic on this and every other forum. When Armenians resort to committing such atrocities on their own people, then I have a problem with it, and I don't care what the supposed arguments that are advanced, be they to maintain stability, or maintain the current lust for power.

One expects such behavior only from Turks and Asiatic mongols, and I will continue to say this and reiterate this over and over because this is how the current crop of rulers are, and likely have hints of blood of those marauders. And I know you consider this a weakness, the whole "Armenians vs Armenians" phenomenon due to the genocide. However, I disagree with that and that is mainly my point. You call them trash but they are just like any other Armenians, political dissenters. Why is trash to disagree? That is essentially what they are doing.

Levon, regardless of his faults and follies, packed his bags and left when it was his time. Methinks the current rulers are making their seats warmer for leaders yet to come in their line.

And if one asserts the argument that this is about maintaining stability in Armenia, then let's please can democracy, or the pretension of it, because if you want to maintain stability, you need to have a one-party state that rules with an iron fist that can oversee the changes and stability through subsequent administrations. Let's put some truth in advertising.

I suppose that is exactly what is going on in Armenia, covertly and subtly, but no one wants to talk about it, sort of like what Putin is doing in Russia. Armenia is a microcosm of that.

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I'm afraid Armenia now is flirting with the prospects of becoming a failed state. Like I have said in the past, I have more hope in Russians to set Armenians straight.

Armenia has always flirted with the prospect of becoming a failed state, but I have more faith in our leaders and various patriotic elements within Armenia and the Diaspora to prevent this.

Russia will favor Armenia until we do not meet their national interests, hopefully this does not happen anytime soon.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Levon, regardless of his faults and follies, packed his bags and left when it was his time. Methinks the current rulers are making their seats warmer for leaders yet to come in their line.

No Anon, that is one of the Levon camp's worst arguments. Levon was 'kicked out' and he could do kaka about it because his life was directly threatened, he had no politician supporting his suicidal political agendas and the entire population wanted him out. Like him or not, Serzh today has the reluctant backing of the majority of the population, he has the full support of the military and the support of Moscow.

Those in Armenia behind Levon today are the "businessmen" that lost their influence and territory to the incoming Artsakhtsi Armenians. In the case of the Yerkrapah war veterans, their bellyache is more-or-less paying taxes. The last several years the authorities have been gradually imposing tax regiments on the wealthy. Until then, the Yerkrapah leadership were not paying taxes.

And if one asserts the argument that this is about maintaining stability in Armenia, then let's please can democracy, or the pretension of it, because if you want to maintain stability, you need to have a one-party state that rules with an iron fist that can oversee the changes and stability through subsequent administrations. Let's put some truth in advertising. I suppose that is exactly what is going on in Armenia, covertly and subtly, but no one wants to talk about it, sort of like what Putin is doing in Russia. Armenia is a microcosm of that.

I fully agree, I'm glad you realize these political nuances. However, the authorities in Yerevan are forced to play the "democracy" game because the West demands it, as it demanded belief in "Christ" not too long ago. Again we are forgetting that unlike Russia we Armenians need international support. Democracy does not work because it given the masses the right to make political decisions. Voting politicians into power was never meant to be for the masses. The masses voting in the western world is essentially a twentieth century phenomenon. I, personally, would rather see a constitutional monarchy takeover power in Armenia. If that cannot happen, then we need to be a one party dictatorship. If that cannot happen, then let's simple give the house keys to Moscow.

We Armenians, especially being in the Caucasus, cannot risk playing with the notion of democracy. On the whole, our people are worthless and hopeless. Thus, how can we trust the masses to make the right political decisions?

Regional power politics aside, and all dubious speculations about America's hand in this or that cookie jar aside, my only point is that, claiming that these elements who are trying to "undermine the state and overthrow the government by force" are disrupting Armenia's internal stability, is no different than levying the charge that the status quo has continued to erode the stability of Armenia, and the exodus of the population, by its own hand, and has continued to do so and undermine peoples' faith in that government, by beating women, children, or killing whoever else steps against the power of the state.

No Anon, overwhelming majority of the people fled during the Levon years, including the majority of the low lives that demonstrated against the Armenian state in LA. Armenia has been for the past five to ten years progressing, moving forward in various fields. Look at the military. Look at the tourism industry. Look at the economic indicators. Look at Armenia relations with the Russian Federation, Iran and the EU. Look at the nations infrastructure. The Armenian Republic had been progressing until this major xxxxup. It's simply ludicrous to sate that Armenia was doing bad. Under the most dire of sociopolitical and geopolitical circumstances, Armenia was doing better than most former Soviet states. And please stop disseminating more Levonakan fairy tales, the only instance of beating/killing citizens was during the coup d'etat.

Anon, living in California you are most probably being bombarded by Levonist propaganda. You are an extremely intelligent man, please assess/weight the information you are hearing objectively and rationally.

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

our people are worthless and hopeless.

This can be said about the sheeple of any nation, not just Armenia. This is why the rule of mob is not a good form of government, the advancement of western nations has been due to economic policies not "democracy", which I am sure you are well aware of.

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Anon, living in California you are most probably being bombarded by Levonist propaganda.

24/7

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Armenian, you sound and act like the Levonakans that you purportedly despise so much.

And, you are speaking out of both sides with regard to your position re: the diaspora.

Going back to Soviet-style rule, for even a fortnight, within years of ratifying and enacting a constitution evinces that the state has failed.

And, with regard to the recent dual citizenship bestowed upon the old man from Glendale by the RA based on a recent statute that intends to amend the Constitutional residency requirements. You can't amend the constitution by statute and a statute that does not comply with the constitution is itself unconstitutional.

As I have said before, I'd rather have an imperfect democracy than a perfect tyranny.

Notwithstanding LTP's legitimacy, if Serzh is the future of Armenia, the Republic is dead. Armenia might as well be incorporated back into Russia.

Before 2/19, Abrahamayan was acknowledged by the RA for his contributions to the military. After 3/20, Sassounian was acknowledged by the RA for his contributions to 'special projects'.

There is as much evidence that what happened on 3/1 was a counterrevolution as it was a colored one.

And, you tried to link the nonsense of 3/1 to LTP, Soros and the West.

The Armenian people and the global community were promised a constitution, democracy and civil rights in the RA, we were lied to by ourselves.

As one RA politician said recently, we are all to blame for March 1.

And, one last thing Armenians were fleeing Armenia long before LTP came to power and Armenian became a nation again. There were swarms in the late 70s, the mid to late 80s, during LTPs reign and even when Kocharian came to power. The majority of the literati left before LTP came to power. Armenia suffered a major brain drain during the Soviet period.

You, Armenian, are a propagandist, nothing more. You spread the same lies and hate that you claim others are doing to the ruin of the Republic.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

No one is saying that the Armenian Republic does not want or need diasporan help. We are simply saying that such aid can not come at a high price. If foreign help gets in the way of Armenia's national interests then we don't need it. Levonakans amaze me with their irrationality, lack of concern and lack of objectivity. Levon supporters need to wake the xxxx up, they are playing with the very existence of the Armenian Republic.

You are a petty liar. You've said it in this thread. Or, something so close to it that a different meaning than that above cannot be discerned from your words.

You are as irrational, subjective and unconcerned as you claim others to be.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

"Our people are worthless and hopeless." - Armenian

Hmm, you sound more and more like what you claim your nemesis Ara Baliozian says, everyday. No, you are worthless and hopeless.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

And, one last thing Armenians were fleeing Armenia long before LTP came to power and Armenian became a nation again. There were swarms in the late 70s, the mid to late 80s, during LTPs reign and even when Kocharian came to power. The majority of the literati left before LTP came to power. Armenia suffered a major brain drain during the Soviet period. You, Armenian, are a propagandist, nothing more. You spread the same lies and hate that you claim others are doing to the ruin of the Republic.

Freaky, as usual, you are talking out your much trafficked ass.

Disregarding much of your psychobabble, allow me to address some of your statements for the sake of third party viewers. It is common knowledge that Armenians fled Levon's rule in massive numbers, estimates are 1-1.5 million citizens. Before making yourself sound stupid, as usual, look at some official statistics. Whats more, Armenian intelligencia fled the country exclusively during Levon's rule. Only during the Genocide had such a massive exodus been seen. The reality is that under Kocharyan's rule the Armenian exodus decreased greatly. So, no stupid, there was no brain drain during the Soviet rule.

I suggest you pull your tiny little head out of your big ass and get some oxygen flowing to your brain. It's obvious where you are getting your stupid information from, pulling it out of Levon's ass. And yes freak, I am a propagandist. What is your stupid point? However, if I am not stating truths, post factual documents to counter my claims. I don't want to see your worthless opinion.

You are a petty liar. You've said it in this thread. Or, something so close to it that a different meaning than that above cannot be discerned from your words. You are as irrational, subjective and unconcerned as you claim others to be.

Stupid one, let me repeat it again for you: If foreign aid is offered to Armenia with political conditions then I don't want it. Do you understand, stupid one?

"Our people are worthless and hopeless." - Armenian Hmm, you sound more and more like what you claim your nemesis Ara Baliozian says, everyday. No, you are worthless and hopeless.

You Freak are a perfect example of how delusional and worthless our people have become as of late. There may be superficial similarities in certain rhetorical approaches between Ara Baliozian and myself but Ara and I are on opposite ends of the ideological spectrum. Ara types, you can also include yourself in the category, have to disappear from the Armenian scene. You are a terminal cancer for us. The best use I have your type is to fertilize arable lands with your blood.

[crusader1492]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Freaky, as usual, you are talking out your much trafficked ass.

Disregarding much of your psychobabble, allow me to address some of your statements for the sake of third party viewers.

It is unfortunate that you have to expend your mental energy responding to freaky - for two reasons:

1. A casual reader might get the idea that he is on the same intellectual plain as you.

2. You are distracted from doing what you do best (i.e. informing the audience of the state of the Armenia and encouraging fellow Armenians to help Hayastan) because you have to endure the trite remarks of an ineffectual (and vain) jackass, who has nothing better to do, but to peck at your heals in a futile attempt to gain credibility among those who actually care about the welfare of Armenia.

Armenian, I share your pain.