Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

[Armenian]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

If there was no Tashnak and Hinchak, I believe Armenians would be living in their ancestral lands today.

Living like Kurds? No thanks, Turkoglu.

[Armanen]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

The majority of Turks have Anatolian, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Caucasus roots. How can they occupy their own lands?

And all of these people were forced either by pain of death or because of financial hardship to convert. Not to mention the annual rape & pillage expeditions that the seljuks and early ottomans would put on. Basically there is not true turkish ethnicity because it's a mixture of the local peoples found in the Asia Minor and the Balkans with the mongoloid seljuks and ottomans.

Since Anatolian Greeks didn't take part in the Greek war of independence, how do you know they supported it?

Because I don't get my information from turkish textbooks or "history" books.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Living like Kurds? No thanks, Turkoglu.

Coincidentally today kurds are living on former Armenians lands and Armenian houses. They don't seem to be complaining.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

And all of these people were forced either by pain of death or because of financial hardship to convert. Not to mention the annual rape & pillage expeditions that the seljuks and early ottomans would put on. Basically there is not true turkish ethnicity because it's a mixture of the local peoples found in the Asia Minor and the Balkans with the mongoloid seljuks and ottomans.

Thats generally how religions spread.

Because I don't get my information from turkish textbooks or "history" books.

You've failed to explain how Anatolian Greeks took part in the Greek war of independence. I'll just have to assume you don't know much on the matter which it quite allright.

[Armanen]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Thats generally how religions spread.



You've failed to explain how Anatolian Greeks took part in the Greek war of independence. I'll just have to assume you don't know much on the matter which it quite allright.

There is a difference between converting and remaing the ethnicity you were before the conversion, and converting plus assuming a new racial and ethnic background. Most so called turks today are nothing but bastardized Assyrians, Arabs, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Hungarians, etc.

This is what I was pointing out to you.

As for explaination of Anatolian Greeks taking part in the conflict, I stated that they supported it, many through volunteering to fight alongside with the Greeks of mainland Greece and the majority through spiratual support for their ethnic brothers. If you want to get into semantics we can say you didn't clearly identify what you meant by "support".

The point remains that as the ottoman empire started to decline, late 16th century, more and more the various ethnic groups from within the empire wanted their freedom, therefore nationalism was not something unique to Armenians or any of the other groups under the turkish yoke but a natural reaction to the hardships put upon the non turk population of the empire.

[meline]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

You've failed to explain how Anatolian Greeks took part in the Greek war of independence. I'll just have to assume you don't know much on the matter which it quite allright.

Then how could you possibly explain the pogroms agaist the Greek population in Anatolia at the time of the Greek Independence War? Or you don't learn that at school, I guess.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

There is a difference between converting and remaing the ethnicity you were before the conversion, and converting plus assuming a new racial and ethnic background. Most so called turks today are nothing but bastardized Assyrians, Arabs, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Hungarians, etc.

You speak as if you have no knowledge on the Ottoman empire or any Anatolian empire for that matter. There was no sense of ethnic identity till very recently(meaning the 19th, 20th century). If you converted to Islam you became a Muslim which was identified with the ruling Ottoman class which spoke Turkish. Just as converting to Greek Orthodoxy meant Greek Orthodoxy was the only identity that defined you. Shaman Turkic nomads that travelled to Anatolia converted to Greek Orthodoxy in mass numbers and were considered Greek, they were even sent to Greece in the population exchange. The head of the Turkish Orthodox Church himself asked Atatürk to spare him and his 300 000 Turkish Orthodox community and not send them to Greece for they were Turkish. But since identity was ruled out on religion, they were all sent. Ever heard of Karamanlides/Karamanlı people? They were ethnic Turks who embraced Greek Orthodox. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamanlides) The same story all over the Balkans, millions of Greek Orthodox Albanians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Slavs, Gypsys, Turks etc that embraced the Greek Orthodox religion make up modern day Greece.

Just as millions of Muslim Bonsians, Albanian, Bulgarian, Slavs, Greeks, Georgians, endless Caucasus people etc make up modern day Turkey.

On the Turkish-Greek population exchange:

"A Western observer, accustomed to a different system of social and national classifications, might conclude that this was no repatriation at all but two deportations into exile - - of Christian Turks to Greece, and of Muslim Greeks to Turkey,"

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/turkey-greece%20history.htm

As for explaination of Anatolian Greeks taking part in the conflict, I stated that they supported it, many through volunteering to fight alongside with the Greeks of mainland Greece and the majority through spiratual support for their ethnic brothers. If you want to get into semantics we can say you didn't clearly identify what you meant by "support".

There were Greek uprisings all over Mora & the islands, why weren't there any uprisings for a Greek state in Anatolia?

Financial aid was very little to none from Anatolia, which led to some modern days Greeks to describe Anatolian Greeks as "traitors" and even treat Anatolian immigrants in an unwelcome manner when they reached Greece.

In the Greek film "Politiki Kouzina" the Anatolian Greek immigrant that goes to Greece explains that "the Turks kicked us out as if we were Greeks and the Greeks unwelcomed us as if we were Turks".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378897/

Good movie btw.

The point remains that as the ottoman empire started to decline, late 16th century, more and more the various ethnic groups from within the empire wanted their freedom, therefore nationalism was not something unique to Armenians or any of the other groups under the turkish yoke but a natural reaction to the hardships put upon the non turk population of the empire.

Anatolia is uncomparable to the Balkans geography & demographic wise. That was a mistake Russians and Armenians made almost a century ago.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Then how could you possibly explain the pogroms agaist the Greek population in Anatolia at the time of the Greek Independence War? Or you don't learn that at school, I guess.

Care to provide information on the pogrom against the Greek population of Anatolia at the time of the Greek war of independence?

Cause it looks like your getting your dates mixed.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

I repeat Anatolia was clean of ethnic awareness till Hinchak and Tashnak brought in nationalism.

This is not true at all. Long before the establishment of either of these parties in the late 1880's, Kurdish tribes with the consent and support of the Ottoman government would encroach on the Armenian plateau, taking and destroying Armenian lands and businesses, while forcing many people off. This culminated in, but was in no way restricted to, the 1894-1896 massacre of around 300,000 Armenians by Abdul-Hamid in which he used these same Kurdish irregulars called Hamidiye. You cannot seriously imply that genocide of another nation is the justified reaction to independence movements which happened because of similar deportations, massacres, and oppressions going back for centuries.

Also, its important to point out that Armenian national consciousness has been vividly displayed since at least the 5th century and is not as young as you claim. Maybe you're doing it on purpose, or maybe you have very limited knowledge of the Armenian plateau, but you're basically trying to make ancient Armenian national ideals seem like foreign creations, while trying to make Turkish leadership in the Armenian plateau seem domestic and natural, in order to imply that they had a right to commit their crimes.

Anatolia is uncomparable to the Balkans geography & demographic wise.

You're right. Where you are wrong is assuming that Anatolia includes the Armenian plateau, which is a different geographic area, and is very different from Anatolia in terms of demographics, even more so until the recent past.

[Federate]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Dashnaks Threaten Coalition Exit Over Karabakh Concessions

By Astghik Bedevian

The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) will pull out of Armenia’s governing coalition if President Serzh Sarkisian presses ahead with territorial concessions to Azerbaijan, a leader of the nationalist party said on Friday.

“If the actions of the supreme authorities run contrary to our principles -- and by that we mean what we consider our national interests in the first instance -- … then of course we will have no common course to follow with those authorities,” warned deputy parliament speaker Hrayr Karapetian .

Karapetian specifically referred to the status of Nagorno-Karabakh and the future of the surrounding Azerbaijani districts fully or partly occupied by Armenians during the 1991-1994 war.

The liberation of virtually all of those districts is a key element of international mediators’ existing peace proposals. The peace accord proposed by the U.S., Russian and French co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group also seems to uphold the Karabakh Armenians’ right to legitimize their independence from Azerbaijan in a future referendum. Sarkisian and other Armenian officials have said this formula is essentially acceptable to Yerevan.

But Dashnaktsutyun, which is represented in Sarkisian’s government by three ministers, seems to think otherwise. “We are against the [settlement] variant that is being considered at the ongoing negotiations mainly because it envisages the return of territories,” the party’s chief foreign policy spokesman, Giro Manoyan, said on October 20.

Dashnaktsutyun chose to join the ruling coalition despite challenging Sarkisian in the February 19 presidential election and strongly criticizing the state of affairs in Armenia under his predecessor Robert Kocharian. Its leaders warned afterwards they will not hesitate to quit the government if Sarkisian fails to implement his domestic reform agenda.

The warnings led some members of Sarkisian’s Republican Party of Armenia (HHK) to publicly state that Dashnaktsutyun should not have cut a power-sharing with the president in the first place.

From http://armenialiberty.org/armeniarep...14DA83F31B.ASP