Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

and you should thank your god that armenians have this party because if it was not for the ARf.... asdvads tchene

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

If the ARF was such an anti-Bolshevik entity "playing Turkish-spirited politics" as your stupid non-source stated - why did the ARF intentionally handover the Armenian Republic to the Bolsheviks instead of the Turks?

Who said they didn't? They handed over Kars and Ardahan to the Turks in the Treaty of Alexandropol to fight the Bolsheviks, instead of letting the Bolsheviks negotiate for the areas of the Sevres. For the record, the Soviets demanded the lost lands back from the Turks after the end of WWII.

There may have been ARF members who for some reason or another were against resuming hostilities against Turks, but the party as a whole decide to go ahead with the assassinations.

You are ill informed. The rulers of the ARF were fanatically against the list of assassinations through the Operation Nemesis. The list had 200 people. The mastermind of the operation was Shahan Natalie, they tried to kill everyone who wanted to trigger hostilities against Turkey because they saw Turkey as a potential ally against the Bolsheviks.

You might not like it, but that is the truth. I am sure there were many ARF regular members who disagreed, but we are talking about the official line of the party.

However, the ASALA was one of the many Cold War era tools the KGB used to create strife within the Western world, some of the others being the IRA, the Red Brigades, November 17, PKK, etc. The ASALA, as far as serving the Armenian cause, utterly ruined their mission towards the end when they began killing innocent westerners.

What ignorant bolox. None of these organization had any support from the Soviet Union. Only PKK had some support. lol, for Christ sake IRA existed prior the formation of the USSR.

Listen. Soviet Union was against such ''terrorist'' attacks because they were creating diplomatic problems to them. They were against anything that they couldn't control. None of these organizations, and especially, ASALA had any sort of support by KGB. They had support from Palestinian sympathizers but they sold them later. Read the official publications of French Secret Services.

Nevertheless, I agree that the aggressive actions of the ASALA got the ARF out of its stagnant administering diasporan communities mode and into a renewed militant mode taking on the Turkish state.

Finally some words of wisdom.

[SaroukhSako]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

i am the one that is brainwashed he???? hehehehe
what the xxxx did u just recite from your point a to k....???
it is the same story every time ARF did wrong in 19something ARF did this in 30's 40's......WELL let me explain to you in way your level of understanding would allow me to... WHY IT'S ALWAYS THAT THE ARF (SOURP TASHNAGTSOUTYOUN ) IS THE ONE THAT IS DOING EVEN IF IT WAS WRONG (YOUR LIES)? WHY IS THAT EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT THE RECENT HISTORY OF OUR PEOPLE TASHNAG THIS AND TASHNAG THAT....??? WHERE ARE YOUR xxxxING POLITICAL PARTIES....??

i'm going to prove you that you can sleep at night because of ARF without even reciting you history again just like your level of understanding allows me to do.

let me tell you this: the only way or the means to resolve the armenian cause to return to hayrenik and to commemorate a recognized genocide is ARF and you should thank your god that armenians have this party because if it was not for the ARf.... asdvads tchene........

[Armenian]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Bolshevik wannabe, had it not been for the unsuspecting viewer here I would not waste another second of my time with you. However, since there are decent folk here who simply are not aware of this particular aspect of our history I will respond to your lies and half-truths.

Again you are spreading Bolshevik era propaganda. Just to make a point, I was about to "edit" the particular quote you referenced from Wikipedia but I decided against it. Nonetheless, it's quite obvious that you are a Wikipedia scholar

Answer me this, dim wit.

If the ARF was such an anti-Bolshevik entity "playing Turkish-spirited politics" as your stupid non-source stated - why did the ARF intentionally handover the Armenian Republic to the Bolsheviks instead of the Turks?

The fact of the matter is, when the international community abandoned the Armenian case soon after the end of the First World War, the ARF took up the responsibility of punishing those who were responsible for the Armenian Genocide. There may have been ARF members who for some reason or another were against resuming hostilities against Turks, but the party as a whole decide to go ahead with the assassinations.

I give you this much. The KGB lead ASALA started a good precedent by assassinating Turkish diplomats in the mid-70s. Yes, after the ARF's operation Nemesis, the ASALA were the first ones who renewed the hostilities. However, the ASALA was one of the many Cold War era tools the KGB used to create strife within the Western world, some of the others being the IRA, the Red Brigades, November 17, PKK, etc. The ASALA, as far as serving the Armenian cause, utterly ruined their mission towards the end when they began killing innocent westerners. For the record, the ARF's Justice Commandos never killed a single non-Turk. Look it up, but you wont find it on Wikipedia. And despite your stupid claims that they were tools of the CIA, the Justice Commandos even conducted operations within North America and Western Europe, which would be against CIA interests.

Nevertheless, I agree that the aggressive actions of the ASALA got the ARF out of its stagnant administering diasporan communities mode and into a renewed militant mode taking on the Turkish state. And long after the ASALA disappeared the ARF remains as strong as ever - politically, militarily and socially.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

And the ARF has done more for the Armenian Genocide recognition than all of your Bolshevik comrades, including the ASALA, put together.

Tell me one (1) thing that they have done prior the formation of ASALA for the recognition of the Armenian Genocide. Either say it or stop waisting my time.

Operation Nemesis was an official operation commissioned by the ARF.

ARF not only was against these assassinations but they sabotaged them because they sided with the Turks in order to be against the Bolsheviks. We all know this, back then, they openly admitted it.

''The ARF Bureau was against these assassinations, because having been ousted from the Democratic Republic of Armenia, it was filled with anti-Soviet sentiment and was playing Turkish-spirited politics, which this campaign of assassination hindered.''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nemesis

As a result, due to their actions, the assassination so of Turkish diplomats had to stop.

Eh. Which assassination of Turkish Diplomats had to stop? When exactly did ARF assassinate one Turkish diplomat between the '30s and the '70s? You are talking as if there were assassinations going on prior ASALA by the ARF.

Moreover, we also know why the ARF had ties with the CIA, that is no secret either.

They didn't had ties with the CIA. They were the tool of the CIA and they considered Turkey an ally NATO country that's why they didn't want to pursue the recognition of the Armenian Genocide.

it was a great strategic move by the ARF to join the Third Reich's effort to eradicate Bolshevism from within the western world

This merely proves that ARF's only concern is to rule the country to eat the money and they wouldn't give a rats ass if 300.000 Armenians would die for that. Nothing different from what the Turks would do.

I wonder if the ARF says such pish to Armenian war veterans.

Anyway, if you are a brainwashed fanatic, I can excuse you, but if you are consciously lying, then you should be ashamed of yourself traitor.



PS: We are still waiting to hear to whose pockets did the money of the Armenian people end up when you were booted from the country.

[Armenian]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Let me tell you a couple of things about things that they have tried to hide you son:

Listen Lenin wannabe, between you and Artsakh - I can't figure out who is the dumber one here.

The BS you wrote might as well have been prepared by the Politburo of the Bolshevik party in the 1930s. All you worthless Cold War era rejects manage to do now is regurgitate and spew Bolshevik era lies, fairy-tales and half-truths. And this not about Russia, by the way. I'm sure many of you here know that I'm a great admirer of Russians. This is not even about socialism/communism, per say. This is about filthy lowlife, Godless, anti-nationalist, Joo inspired Bolsheviks and their pathetic sympathizers. And the funniest thing here is you thinking that you are a Bolshevik. You nothing but a disgruntled and ignorant teenager

Real history for real idiots:

Operation Nemesis was an official operation commissioned by the ARF. The most famous individual, Soghomon Tehlirian, who assassinated Tallat was a lifelong ARF member. And he is an immortalized superhero within the party today.

We all know why the ARF was forced to give up territories to the Turks. Why they did what they did is no secret for it has been debated and discussed at length. That matter has been resolved many decades ago. However, what we don't know is why your Daddy's Bolshevik party did what they did in Nakhijevan and Artsakh.

What's more, we know why the ARF did what they did during World War Two. As a matter of fact, it was a great strategic move by the ARF to join the Third Reich's effort to eradicate Bolshevism from within the western world - at the same time have an Armenian voice in the German Reichstag. And during the time when Soviet prisoners of war were being executed wholesale by the Waffen SS, the Armenian presence in the Wehrmacht actually saved the lives of tens of thousands of Armenian POWs. The volunteers of the Armenian Legion within the German army was made up primarily of former Red Army Armenian POW.

Moreover, we also know why the ARF had ties with the CIA, that is no secret either. And just like their relations with the Nazis during the Second World War, their attempt at developing ties with the CIA was a great strategic move during the Cold War.

And the ARF has done more for the Armenian Genocide recognition than all of your Bolshevik comrades, including the ASALA, put together. As a matter of fact, the actions of the ASALA hurt the Armenian cause severely. Instead of killing Turks they resorted to killing innocent Europeans. Instead of concentrating on Armenian issues, they got involved with the PLO. They were puppets of the KGB. And that resulted in Western governments cracking down on all Armenian paramilitary organizations. As a result, due to their actions, the assassination so of Turkish diplomats had to stop.

However, what we don't know is what are you and your lowlife Red brethren are doing today for the Armenian nation. Yeah... Really... What the f*** are you or your kin doing for the Armenian Republic today? We know what the ANC is doing in Washington DC. What the f*** are you or your kin doing in Washington DC? We know what the ARF is doing in Artsakh and Javakhq. What the f*** are you or your kin doing there?

As a matter of fact, who or what do you represent? All I have seen you spew here is vicious lies, half-truths and fairy-tales about the ARF and the ruling Republican administration in Yerevan. Incidentally, what many of us here are discussing is politics. On the other hand, what you and your buddies are doing here is treating this matter as if it's a pathetic family issue, or a street fight between snot nosed kids. I realize that simple minded people only understand simple issues. And I also understand that your narrow/ignorant perspective of Armenian politics and history reflects your intellectual poverty and family up-brining.

Nevertheless, you are a sad excuse for an Armenian. If I were you I'd be embarrassed to stick my nose into Armenian issues. Like I have told you in the past - you need a lot of growing up and learning to do before I take you seriously.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Wow hima indsi hayerenal bidi sorvetsenes????
the only time you and your kind did a favor to our people, cause and history was when u did not exist.

after the WW1 we had everything. it was not an ideal state but it armenia and once you reds came into being the problems of armenian started again ,you were the ones who made a pact with ataturk you were the ones responsible for the tashnags leave armenia and it was you xxxxing red armenians who handed nakhitchevan and artsakh too azerbaidjan so shut up and try to learn something about HAYRENASIROUTYOUN......

Well, I didn't want to enter in your happy clapy gathering, but you are really looking for it. Let me tell you a couple of things about things that they have tried to hide you son:

ARF history for dummies:

a) ARF handed over our lands in the Treaty of Alexandropol before the Soviets. The Treaty of Alexandropol was the precedent for Treaty of Kars. It was then when people like Andranik left disgusted for the treachery.

b) ARF was against the assassination of the henchmen of the Armenian nation. ARF didn't want Talat Pasha assassinated. When Shahan Natalie, one of the real heroes that you are looking for, made a list of 200 Turks in the Operation-Nemesis, responsible for the Armenian Genocide, ARF not only didn't helped, but they tried to kill him because they had already formed a political alliance with the Turks.

c) ARF were against taking military action they were always a bunch of worthless diplomats , they were worthless diplomats, as proved in b.

d) During WWII ARF collaborated with the fascist enemy who killed 300.000 Armenians.

e) During the Cold War ARF was a mere CIA tool. Based on the CIA doctrine, Turkey was ARF's NATO ally.

f) As a result of e, ARF was often sending during the '50s Armenian athletes to train in.. guess where? Turkey.

g) Tell me one thing that ARF has done in favor of the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, prior the formation of ASALA. Why did it took them 50 bloody years to do something?

Don't tire your brain, they have done nothing.

They were against grassroots organizations and violence. They were dragged in to creating the Justice Commandos because everyone was leaving their organization. Not only they were against the assassination of Turkish diplomats in the beginning, but they were executing Armenian patriots who were sympathetic with ASALA because they were anti-NATO..

h) They never performed any operation in a NATO country, their operations were performed in countries like lol Yugoslavia. This validates that the ARF was a mere CIA tool. When the arch-chief of Justice Commandos did an operation in the USA, the ARF had him killed..

i) Prior the collapse of the Republic of Armenia, ARF took all the gold from the country. They said they would bring it when the country was restored. Guess what, they never did, they ate it. So, if you are looking for Armenian patriotic organizations, the ARF is not really the right place to look for. They are sucking up Armenian money like leaches and doing nothing.

j) The only reason why ARF is represented in the Armenian Parliament is because the elections are fixed. In reality, ARF has a zero support base in Armenia. That's why you will see the ARF lackeys in this thread defending the corrupt Armenian political establishment which considers its enemies the Armenian people.

k) I am not a bolshevik, dipxxxx. I don't give a flying xxxx about the Soviets. But I do recognize, though, that they have done more about Armenia than the ARF. They turned a village to a modern country.

I am not really excepting you fanatics be convinced, this was simply done to restore reality and justice because there are some normal people here reading all this and they deserve to know the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahan_Natalie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nemesis

[SaroukhSako]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

I am very thoughtful when I am speaking about Armenian heroes botzo.

PS I am not going using the word ''yavrig'' since it is a Turkish word and I am an Armenian not a Dash...err.. Turk.

Wow hima indsi hayerenal bidi sorvetsenes????
the only time you and your kind did a favor to our people, cause and history was when u did not exist.

after the WW1 we had everything. it was not an ideal state but it armenia and once you reds came into being the problems of armenian started again ,you were the ones who made a pact with ataturk you were the ones responsible for the tashnags leave armenia and it was you xxxxing red armenians who handed nakhitchevan and artsakh too azerbaidjan so shut up and try to learn something about HAYRENASIROUTYOUN......

[Federation]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Dear friend, there is a lot of lies from the soviet era about the ARF that is left over. Yerkir media in yerevan published an article about how certain folks pay any idiot from the street 5 dollars to write anti-ARF material.

"Artzakh" presents a very one-sided position and tells only half the story, for example. for example, he says "the Dashnaks collaborated with the young turks" and ends it there. he deliberatly leaves out the fact that the Armenians were severly oppressed under the sultan, and the fact of the hamidian massacres of over 300,000 armenians (which is no small matter).

One way or the other, the Sultan had to go.

Lets not forget the fact that Armenians were citizens of the Ottoman Empire. One way or the other, it was impossible to not deal with turks. How in the world could Armenians ignore the Turks when they were citizens of ottoman empire and living in “their” country?

After the sultan’s slaughter of 300,000 armenians, the ARF had to get rid of the sultan at any cost.

From the third world congress onward (1904), kristapor mikyelian-chief founder of ARF-was the central figure of the Demonstrative Responsible Body, whose main objective was to assassinate Sultan abdul hamid. Unfortunately, this great pioneer of the Armenian revolutionary struggle was himself soon to be the victim of a bomb explosion near Sophia, while testing hand grenades.

So, when a new force emerged in Ottoman Turkey that opposed the Sultans regime, it was natural that not only the ARF, but ordinary Armenians from the ottoman empire would welcome the idea. That’s why the ARF did, what it felt at the time was the right thing to do—join forces with those opposed to the bloody sultan.

It is down-right stupid to call the ARF’s cooperation with the young turks on this matter “treasonous.”

After the 1909 adana massacre, the ARF demanded an answer from the Young Turks. The young turks called it a “counter revolution” carried out by anti-young turk forces. Whatever the case, the ARF moved to terminate its cooperation with Young Turks after it saw that continuation of such relations was fruitless.

[Armenian]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

One word - Bravo!

Regarding cooperation with the Young Turks:

you are not being totally fair. Heighseight is always 20/20. You must take into consideration the situation during that time. Sultan Abdul Hamid had just slaughtered 300,000 Armenians. Armenians were oppressed under Hamid.

Thus, when the Young Turks planned on overthrowing this brutal regime, and replaced by a seemingly more "moderate" force, which promised Armenians a voice in the parliament, then the ARF sided with the Young Turks.

The situation called for a revolution. Armenians under the Sultan were being killed in the hundreds and thousands.

But as the saying goes, out of the fire and into the frying pan. The Young Turks proved to be more brutal than the previous regime of the Sultan.

Andranik assesed the situation, the ARF leadership should have heeded his warning. But as the saying goes, damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Living under the Sultan we were killed, and after overthrowing him, we were killed.

Andranik is the god of Dashnaksuitiun. Till this day, Dashnaks have preserved and eternalized the memory of Andranik through revolutionary songs.

The fact that Andranik disagreed with the ARF leadership does not mean that the ARF is a traitor organization, as you claim. Even in a family of 4 or 5 members, brothers and sisters, son and father, husband and wife, do not always agree on the same issue, are often in conflict, and disagree with eachother. This is called human nature. The ARF is a vast organization. Made up of a vast array of people. Each person is unique, and has different points of view on policy, strategy, and such. This is heathly and normal. What do you think the ARF is made up of? robots who blindly follow orders from above?

And had it not been for the foresight of the ARF, there would not have been a Soviet Armenia, and consequently the independent Armenia that exists today.

A good portion of the points you make is indeed Soviet era crap that was forced down the throats of Soviet Armenians to cause a division between the Dashnak-led disapora and the homeland.