Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Lamb boy,
I also believe that your initial reaction was a bit childish. Actually it wasn't very Armenian of you. Anyway, we can help you learn more how to be an Armo and have a rebirth if you will, by overcoming this identity crisis.

Nice to see you back.

you can at least admit to this, how would your identity fare or how about this, what would have happend to Armenians in Iran if they were to accept your views on mixed Armenians? They would have converted to Islam a long time ago...

That's a different story... I will in no way accept such mixes with Africans, Muslims or J.ews and interestingly, all these types I have met in my life have much stronger tendencies towards their non-Armenian side.

we are privalged to have a Fatherland (Never use "Motherland" to describe your state, it is always Fatherland!)

Just curious, why? ( And I am not a feminist at all)

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

My point being that you all more than I are a very special people that the world really wants to learn more about and understand better, but I am afraid if you isolate yourselves too much that no one will ever get a chance to find out. Perhaps outsiders are as interested or more interested in preserving Armenian culture than some Armenians are … I know that to be true.

Lamb Boy, outsiders are outsiders, no one will ever pick up a rifle for the sake of Armenia and Armenians except Armenians themselves, there exists no compromise to this rule, Armenians for Armenians. This is first rule you have accept. Yes, on a economic-political level, allies exist, but you have to understand, allies only exist because both parties have a incentive to work together or else, once intersecting interests fail to interesect, the alliance between two respective nations, respectfully, diminishes.

Second, the greatest threat to the contemporary Armenian people stems from multiculturalism. It is a disease that will destroy the Armenian Diaspora and since the Diaspora accounts for more than 50% of the Armenian population, multiculturalism will eventually spread into Armenia and Armenia will just become another developing state under the thumbs of American degenerate corporate culture. How so? New ideas replace old ones via the economic leverage used on behalf of the Diaspora to change the internal value system of the Armenian people that reside within Armenia, eventually, the walls that protect populations from being "replaced" will erude and the authentic Armenian population will be replaced by new populations, what used to be Armenian becomes a hybrid sludge that is no longer authentically Armenian, this is destiny of the western states, there will exist nothing authentically European in Europe if the trend continues and likewise, if this trend is exported to Armenia via the Diaspora, the same fate will be destined for Armenia. Essentially, you don't xxxx where you eat, but that is exactly what Armenians are doing, we are deficating where we eat. And understand this second rule exists in all ethnic groups, on the macro level, no unique ethnic group likes change, and certainly, on the micro level, individuals resent change.

Understand, individuals like me fight muliticulturalism because we don't want degenerate western corporate culture and multicultural sludge to be destiny of the Armenian people. Cultural change and progression should stem from the center of the Armenian state, it should never be imported into a community whether this community is a state, a city, or a home, it makes no difference, change should expand from the inside to the outside.

Well, how do you change this course of action? You first, as a individual make sure you understand that the idea of a "Diaspora" is a lie, there exist no such thing as a "Armenian Diaspora". Our beloved William Saroyan, although he was a great writer, failed to understand that there does not exist a "spiritual Armenia", it sometimes is not within the power of two Armenians to create a "new Armenia". Anyone outside the homeland has already given up their right to their identity, essentially, these individuals are already lost to centrifugal assimilation. What is centrifugal assimilation? It is assimilation that occurs because you, as a Armenian, are located outside the center of the Armenian identity (i.e. the geographic location where Armenians originate from and have had a historic presence, which was referred to, geographically, as the Armenian Highlands and where today, there exists a state known as the Armenian Republic.).

This understanding and acceptence of "centrifugal assimilation" becomes then the central axis that will fuel and motivate you as a Armenian to be more loving and caring towards your state and people. This ideology superceeds any that exists today, if you, as a Armenian, understand that the state is the fundimental engine that represents you as a individual on the global stage then you, certainly, are motivated to preserve your state at all costs. Eventually, this then leads you to be pro-Armenian at all levels (And I mean "at all levels", on the micro and the macro!). Therefore, it is important consider the Diaspora as a lost cause, there exist no such thing, there only exists the Armenian state and people.

With reference to your comments regarding otars and their "interests" in Armenia, I don't want otars to preserve anything, let them stick to their own kind, we don't need them, we need to be nationalistic like Germans and Japanese if we are going to survive the new age, monoethnic, monoracial, and holding the same religious beleifs, this is the most purest form of a nationalism, this idea that the state is greater then the individual should be championed. And understand this has to be bolstered in order to make sure (a) civil war does not occur, (b) foreign entities do not try to create a puppet government (Iran, Turkey, and Russia, all are trying to "court" Armenia, this is a reality we have to accept, we have to make sure all deals are fair and balanced, certainly, all these deals are only political in nature and are not any indication of "good" or "bad" individual relations with the respective citizens of those respective states), and (c) our national resources are in the control of the Armenian people.

Understand, Armenians don't have the populations to absorb new individuals and certainly, we don't have the population to accept foreign ideas. I want each and every Armenian to be a nationalistic superman and superwomen, I want them to eat "Armenianness" for breakfest, lunch, and dinner this is going to defeat our enemies that want to depopulate Armenia. What our enemies want us to do is to continually emigrate out of Armenia, is to champion the idea of a "Diaspora".

You have to understand this fundimental rules of being Armenian, contrary to popular belief, being Armenian is a not a "state of mind", it is a ethnic group, we are white, we are christian, and we are Armenian. The most important of these three titles is that last one, in order to stay unique we must bolster actions that will champion our unique identity, anything else will amount to selling ourselves short and, most importantly, selling out our culture for the denegerate values that are being peddled to developing nations under the banner of "modernaty" and "progession".

How do you accomplish this? Well, for starters, you have to go back to the primative, but productive ideology of our ancestors. Essentially, they were living under the multicultural states that today are considered a "new phenomenon" in the west, the reality is that these states already existed and Armenians have already been exposed to them. In the end the Armenians under these governments had a long history of experiences that had taught them that the only to maintain a identity and culture is to keep it insulated with Armenian sources, meaning, you marry Armenian and support Armenians in all endevours.

However, today these fundimental laws that have preserved our identity and culture, which has allowed us to exist up until era where we are privalged to have a Fatherland (Never use "Motherland" to describe your state, it is always Fatherland!) and has certainly, allowed us to allocate resources to this state are being attacked by individuals within the community that have a personal interest to change 3,000 years of collective knowledge. This knowledge is priceless, Armenians must really dig deep into their past to understand why Armenians hold these values because they do stem from our previous experiences as a people under oppresive regimes.

You have to understand, you are not "African-American" (AKA Wigger!), you are Armenian, you are not Armenian-American, you are Armenian, and you are not English and Armenian, again, you are only Armenian. If you truly want to be Armenian and want other Armenians within the community to welcome you, you must make a honest effort to change and adopt the true ways and values of the Armenian people or else clinging to pop-culture and championing multiculturalism will only make you seem like a "agent provocateur".

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Dude, it takes a big man to admit mistake and apologize. Your previous reaction was pathetic and childish. However, now I see where your true intentions are. I feel that you are genuine.

Listen, I have said it on many occasions: I 'don't' have a problem with 'proud' Armenians who happen to be mixed, especially when they are mixed with white Christians. My problem with you in the past has been your lack of understanding and dedication to the Armenian nation - simply your ignorance. Your Armenian identity seems to be selfish and conditional. You want it because it will make you feel better, it will make you feel whole. Well, that is good but it is also not nationalistic or patriotic. Dedication and service to the fatherland (or motherland for that matter) must be condition-less. Considerations for the fatherland is above all. You just want to 'feel' Armenian, so that you can 'feel' as if you belong somewhere... That is why I said being an Armenian to you seems to be like a fashion statement. You seemed to be a typical American youth. That was my problem with you, not your family lineage. Having said that I must also say I'm glad you have started your identity search. I feel that there is a 'fire' burning within you, allow that fire to engulf you in flames.

So, as long as you don't act like an ignorant American and you and I will have no problems. You need to make a few good Armo friends and visit the Armenian Republic with them. You need to start learning about your language, your heritage and the over four thousand year old history of the Armenian nation. I would also suggest you to kick the rap habit. Once you truly 'feel' and 'act' Armenian you will have no problems fitting into any Armenian community across the world. Your problem is that you are in your initial stages of your Armenian trip. It will be a rocky road, Armenians are a difficult/complicated bunch to get along with. And being an Armenian had its burdens. So, you will either give up and change your name like you said earlier, or you will stick it through and remake yourself. In the end, it's all up to you. Perhaps you can join one of the volunteer groups that go there. If accepted, all expenses are paid for you by the organization. But you need to have something, a profession, a talent, to give back. But please, do not bring to them any of that tasteless/primitive/brain-dead rap crap... Anyway, if you decide to go it will be a trip of a lifetime. You may just rediscover yourself. What do you say?

Have a safe and happy New Years Eve as well.

And welcome back.

Armenian I never have felt that having the ability to call myself Armenian was a fashionable statement ... I just wanted to reconnect with my cultural heritage which got lost in the previous generation. Sorry if I seemed so surface. The reason why I am apologizing to be honest is because I don't want to disrespect the memory of my grandparents who I feel compelled to honor in any way I can. They never forced my dad or uncle to be super Armenian but at the same time now that I am older, and can look back in retrospect, I know they were less than happy that my sister and I were even further from Armenian culture than their own children. They got to witness the assimilation over several generations and realized that there was nothing they could do about it due to extraneous circumstances out of their control. The little I know about Armenian culture (it maybe more than you think!) came about through them. I was always pestering them about Armenian stuff from a very early age and I think of all the times we spent together in Queens during those years had a major impact on me. I listened when my Nana refused to believe or acknowledge the ewish holocaust (lol ... makes me laugh now when I think of how heated I get sometimes and I remind myself of her ... she was "firey" !!) My point being that you all more than I are a very special people that the world really wants to learn more about and understand better, but I am afraid if you isolate yourselves too much that no one will ever get a chance to find out. Perhaps outsiders are as interested or more interested in preserving Armenian culture than some Armenians are … I know that to be true.

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

thanks, and welcome back. I don't know about the others, but I've made many scenes of drama in the past myself, and I've been grateful to be taken back into the communities I embarrassed myself in

You know, if you want to learn about Armenian culture, you can ask us questions and we can try to answer them.

I personally rely on internet somewhat to learn about my culture too, because my family just doesn't know about a lot of our history! It's one of the wonderful things about the internet and I encourage you take make use of it, and feel free to share your experiences or that of your grandparents and parents.

This is, above all, a place for discussion.

Oh, and I'll add that perhaps you should look into learning about your non-Armenian cultural background too, I think this will help you too in your identity issues. At the least, you'll be able to communicate about relevant issues and interests shared by their respective communities, and in that way, you will be able to contribute as well.

Virgil's analogy of the wall is real for national issues, but we are also all human beings and walls don't change that. Human beings have the potential to do great things for each other and for themselves, and so long as our motivation is positive, then I think we will be on the right track.

[Lamb Boy]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

First and foremost I would like to personally apologize to everybody here for the hate I posted yesterday on this thread. Regardless of what everyone here feels about how I was raised I certainly was not brought up to behave in the disrespectful manner I chose to display yesterday when I lost my temper.

If I get banned then I get banned but please understand that I am truly sorry for what I wrote and hope you all won't hold it against me.

For the record I am genetically 50% Armenian and both a quarter English and Irish percentages. Culturally I am 100% American although no one considers being an American an ethnic or cultural identity.

lucin I appreciate your candor on this thread and wish I had articulated myself in a light more like your own. To be honest I do have identity issues because being American isn't a cultural identity unto itself and I can't call myself Armenian so I am really left with nothing. Not a great feeling ...

Armenian I never have felt that having the ability to call myself Armenian was a fashionable statement ... I just wanted to reconnect with my cultural heritage which got lost in the previous generation. Sorry if I seemed so surface.

The reason why I am apologizing to be honest is because I don't want to disrespect the memory of my grandparents who I feel compelled to honor in any way I can. They never forced my dad or uncle to be super Armenian but at the same time now that I am older, and can look back in retrospect, I know they were less than happy that my sister and I were even further from Armenian culture than their own children. They got to witness the assimilation over several generations and realized that there was nothing they could do about it due to extraneous circumstances out of their control.

The little I know about Armenian culture (it maybe more than you think!) came about through them. I was always pestering them about Armenian stuff from a very early age and I think of all the times we spent together in Queens during those years had a major impact on me. I listened when my Nana refused to believe or acknowledge the ewish holocaust (lol ... makes me laugh now when I think of how heated I get sometimes and I remind myself of her ... she was "firey" !!)

... Ahhhh I'm rambling and giving ya'll a serious overdose of personal info lmao @ myself! So enough "justification" ... please know that I wrote this on my own accord and NOT because anyone asked me to. I am capable of admitting when I am wrong.

One last thing ... my dad did manage to videotape and record the events that led to my grandparents moving to America ... each individually. They met and married in NYNY. Also my step mom who is Scandinavian documented their stories and put them into a text document because after getting a taste of Armenian culture, like most (what is it otar odar) outsiders she fell instantly in love and realized how unique and special Armenian people and culture are. This is much the same way my good friend Danny Soder went to Armenia to take pictures of the oldest orthodox churches in the world and then totally fell in love with Armenia, Armenians and our deep culturally and artistically rich history.

My point being that you all more than I are a very special people that the world really wants to learn more about and understand better, but I am afraid if you isolate yourselves too much that no one will ever get a chance to find out. Perhaps outsiders are as interested or more interested in preserving Armenian culture than some Armenians are … I know that to be true.

Well anyway I hope you all have a safe New Years Eve … don’t drink too much and call a taxi if you know you can’t drive!

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

alright, thanks. yes, the analogy of the wall is essentially what I imagined of your ideology before you posted this, I'm glad I was able to read this and know I was right. In any case, those walls are the only thing Armenia has that keeps it Armenia. I don't really see how one can object to that.

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

So what counts for more? Your DNA? Your phenotype? Or your attitude? I think pro-Armenian attitude in itself is a decent indicator that you feel comfortable with your Armenian lineage and appearance. I wonder how many would disagree?

Jgk3, there exists no doubt in my mind that you are Armenian, in fact, the idea that half Armenians are not Armenian is not the idea I want embraced, who am I to dictate the "Armenianness" of a individual? Like I mentioned earlier, I certainly do resent individuals that are fundimentally corrupted by non-Armenain ways, I resent these individuals, however, any individual that is at least half Armenian by blood and meets the racial, religious, and ethnic criteria of the Armenian people can certainly choose their own destiny. It is the idea that "mixed marriages should not be tolerated" that should be embraced and bolstered. And again, understand my point of view, understand it very clearly, and certainly, adopt it.

Let me rehash it with a analogy, let use assume we have a wall, what good does it do to engineer a wall made of mud when you build one out of stone? It is no good at all, if you are going to build a wall, build one out of stone, yes, insects and miniscule critters will crawl through the cracks of any foundation, mud or stone, but for the most part, pink elephants can never ram through stone, they can certainly xxxxxle over mud, but never stone. Likwise, to assume that it is "ok" or "tolerable" to accept "mixes" lowers ones standards when making decisions. Initially, if you were opposed to a decision because you were afraid of the consequences, now, there exists no consequence and what used to be a "life and death" decision has been reduced to a marginal note in the back of your mind. When standards are reduced so is the value given to a that respective object, men and women fight over resources because they see value in its possession.

Again, nationalism and success of a people rests of the will and spirit of each individual. And understand, it is fundimentally because of this reason we must make sure our spirits are always motivated to be positive, progressing as a people or else embracing demagogs will demotivates us and our will to improve ourselves and our people will be destroyed.

There exist no Ahmadinejad in my argument, meaning, I am not a naive person that is dillusional, ofcourse there exists misguided individuals. Some friendly advice, never in your life assume the face value to any argument and ideology, always look at the point of view and why the person is motivated to reveal to you his or her beliefs, the hidden agenda always reveals itself when a critical mind is put to use. There always exists something beneath the superficial front. My argument hinges on the fact that you must put up the strong front to make sure that even if statistically assimilation and adaptation does occurs, it occurs on a miniscule level. People are animals, they are easily herded and dominated by constant streams of images and opinions that attack social norms of our ancestors and therefore, it is up to the educated among our populations to make sure they, the everyman and everywomen, does not foolishly adopt ideologies that are fundimentally wrong for the Armenian people and state. Education should never be used to dominate another individual, it should be used to guide them, never used as a form of a control, rather, the educated man has to humble and it is through his or her humble nature that the everyman and everywomen is benefited, essentially, pushing forward society.

And with regard to the Armenian male and female dynamics, understand, every action in life conducted in the name of the individual eventually reflects on the collective unit. This idea that the individual is affected by the collective is a lie, the truth is that it is the sum of individuals which affects the collective and shapes its destiny. Men and women are primative, the most educated among us always succombs to emotional cravings, therefore, it is important to act and protect primative ways of life. Lets stop playing cat and mouse, lets get to the point in layman's terms, if you as a man see no value in your women (And vice versa), if this is replaced with degenerate behavior and understand I am not naive, degenerate behavior existed ever since the dawn of "mankind" (Feministas, please, don't have a heartattack, "mankind" is in quotes!), again, if this is replaced then the intrinsic drive of a people is also hijacked, understand, everything we do as a individual is connected and we must learn to "pass it forward", where "it" is our Armenian values and beliefs, once, each and every Armenian and human being understands this idea of "passing it forward" then the world will be a better place for everyone. Armenians will begin to value and appreicate one another, taking this on the macro level, the Armenian state will improve and eventually, it will become a productive state that will better the future of humanity, I will stop here, good night.

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I am 1/8 swiss. My grandfather was half swiss, half Armenian, so I guess he wasn't Armenian.

He was pretty much a turkified Armenian living in Istanbul who didn't speak Armenian, and his family were francophiles, answering, "We aren't Armenian, we are Catholic" when asked if they were Armenians.

He married my full Armenian grandmother who was very active in the Bolsahyemiutiun and she taught my grandfather Armenian. She raised my father to speak Armenian fluently, and my father married my full Armenian mom. And here I am today.

Presently, my family is more or less culturally assmilated, but because of the marriages they made, they "bought back" the Armenian blood in our lineage. Yet they don't give a damn about Armenia, although my father contributes financially to our distant cousins living there.

I believe that I am not the only Armenian that is 1/8 or 1/16 of something else. I have a hunch that there must be numerous incidences of Armenians in our history who married Christian odars if they were present in their regions. Key word, incidences.

In any case, I'm not very concerned with having 1/8 ancestry of something else... I have to say... It is undetectable. I'd be more concerned with the attitude I have.

So what counts for more? Your DNA? Your phenotype? Or your attitude? I think pro-Armenian attitude in itself is a decent indicator that you feel comfortable with your Armenian lineage and appearance. I wonder how many would disagree?

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I know the organization in question quite well. I see and hear about the Armenians that apply for volunteer work. Many, not most, many, perhaps 1/3 or 1/4 are of mixed heritage. I can give you a more accurate picture by making one call if you are interested. Anyway, I ask you to reconsider what I wrote.

Nah, its cool, no need. Just thought you were assuming your numbers based on pictures.

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

First, you overstating their mixed backgrounds, judging from the pictures probably maybe one or two individuals are halfies...

I know the organization in question quite well. I see and hear about the Armenians that apply for volunteer work. Many, not most, many, perhaps 1/3 or 1/4 are of mixed heritage. I can give you a more accurate picture by making one call if you are interested. Anyway, I ask you to reconsider what I wrote.