Armenian cognates w/other languages

[Federate]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Turkish

Chakootch = Moorj

Chakootch is in Turkish btw not Armenian.

The word is actually "Çekiç" pronounced "Tchekitch".

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

If you want to maintain some seriousness in this thread (or similar ones) let's not throw in Turkish words or at least try to mention its origin as well, for much of Turkish vocabulary is derived from Persian and Arabic. =)

"Chakootch" is Persian and it is pronounced as chakosh.

very true, let's be careful about what words we are comparing, considering the fact that they can be loan words from another language we are not mentioning. For example, as ara87 pointed out, naranga actually came from sanskrit, even though arabic was instrumental in the introdoction of the term into much of Europe.

And yes ara, your example of Dek'Chai to Degha sounds like a stretch, we don't know what phonological process produced Dek'Chai in Thai, but the two languages (Thai and Armenian) are quite remote from eachother, they are not descended from the same language families and have no geographic or historical indications that would suggest they would loan from eachother. If they did loan from eachother however, you'd expect it to be found in other languages spoken from lands between Armenia and Thailand as there is plenty of distance that separates them, and for a loan word to reach to either side, you'd expect it to have been mighty popular during its journey to the recipient language, popular enough to become established in places along the way. There is no evidence to suggest such a thing, the two languages must've adopted/created distinct roots that weren't related to eachother which eventually emerged as their present, similar sounding forms. It's alright to mention it anyway though, they are quite similar on the surface and it doesn't hurt to know.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Turkish

Chakootch = Moorj

Chakootch is in Turkish btw not Armenian.

If you want to maintain some seriousness in this thread (or similar ones) let's not throw in Turkish words or at least try to mention its origin as well, for much of Turkish vocabulary is derived from Persian and Arabic. =)

"Chakootch" is Persian and it is pronounced as chakosh.

[Pazooki]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Turkish

Chakootch = Moorj

Chakootch is in Turkish btw not Armenian.

[ara87]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

English
Bearest- Berek/Perek

Latin
Navalis-Nav

Thai
Dek'Chai-Degha (stretch?)

----------------------------------------------------
Another stretch... do you think the name of a type of monkey called"Gibbon" has anything to do with "Gabik/Gabig?"

"Gib" becomes "Gab," an "ik/ig" is added on from bezdig/bezdik b/c gibbons are of the "lesser" apes, therefore "smaller" apes, and "ik/ig" is used to indicate small size in many words

That would be a loan word from Arabic which affected several languages of Asia and Europe, being so pervasive in English as to become the word for the colour Orange.

Arabic took it from Sanskrit's "nāraṅga"

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Roots for words across languages don't have to look and sound exactly the same, the words go through a long series of phonological shifts as they are used century after century. For example, the gh sound in yegeghetsi was a shift, an Armenian phonological response to an l sound. I'm not entirely certain on what environment for l prompted a shift to "gh" at one time in the Armenian language's history, but the point is, it comes from the same root as Eglise in french and Iglesia in Spanish. There was apparently a process of fortition that occured on the s also for this word, which in Armenian produced the affricate sound ts at the end of the word.

Still, once you are aware of these phonological (pronunciation) shifts, it is very easy to reconstruct certain Armenian words so that it is plain clear that they have cognates in other languages.

Now, you be the judge, if a shift from l to gh is hard for many people to comprehend, perhaps having an h in the Armenian word Hod is not so odd when compared to odor in English, which is actually a word derived from French Odeur. I'm not exactly certain whether the Indo-European root had an h in the beginning or not, or something else, but the common characteristics of hod vs od-or, plus the fact that they share a very similar reference to smell, that neither have any indication of being loaned from Armenian to English or vice versa, is strong evidence that they both evolved from the same initial root.

Ditto for Utel vs Eat. In Utel's case, which is even simpler than hod, the root of the verb is Ut. The only difference it has to its cognate in English is the backing of the initial vowel, an adjacent vowel pronunciation shift. The U and I sounds are high vowels, as in the tongue is relatively much closer to the palate or roof of the mouth when compared to other vowels, such as A, O or E. The only difference between U and I is that the tongue is front (closer to the front teeth) for I and back (away from the front teeth) for U. Shifts like these, even within the same language, are EXTREMELY common as languages evolve with new trends in pronunciation. Even if you compare Western to Eastern Armenian, you will find evidence for such shifts between the two.

[Post_Blue]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

oh, thanks...

[yerazhishda]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

I didn't really get the odor & hod connection.... like whats the common root? maybe if it was hodor and then the "h' was dropped, idk... i'm just not seeing it. Also the same for foot & votk and eat & oudel/tel.

Well, if you take off the classical plural marker (ք - actually makes the word 'feet' and not foot) and transliterate «ոտ» classically, "vot" is really not that far off from 'foot'.

[Post_Blue]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

I didn't really get the odor & hod connection.... like whats the common root? maybe if it was hodor and then the "h' was dropped, idk... i'm just not seeing it. Also the same for foot & votk and eat & oudel/tel.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Btw, if we keep this thread going long enough, we can turn it into an organized archive for all non-loan words in Armenian that share cognates in other languages (even though this has already been done by Armenian linguists, it would be fun to see what we can come up with).