Armenian cognates w/other languages

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

For bag, we say Baysag (the only word for bag that I use in Armenian), do you think this is related to the word for Bag, let alone Sack (which is actually a french borrowing, "sac") in English?

In Armenian the word Պայուսակ (Bayusag/Payusak) means a hand held bag. The general word for "bag" in Armenian is Պարկ (Barg/Park).

We also find the word Պարկ in bagpipe - Պարկաբզուկ (Bargapzuk/Parkabzuk)

And we see it in backpack as well - Ուսապարկ/Դիմաապարկ (Usabarg/Usapark or Dimabarg/Timapark)

A little bag (or a shopping bag) is Տոպրակ (dobrag/toprak)

A big bag (the bag Santa Claus puts his toys) is Մեշոկ (meshok)

The word for sack is "Քսակ" (qsak), although Քսակ as well as Դրամապանակ are now used for wallet.

[gmd]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

I also use maz for hair and I have never used the words mentioned for bag. I always thought it was soomka.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

It's overwhelmingly true that one should take caution when looking for inherited words in Armenian that have cognates in Persian.

Agh and Salt are indeed descended from the same root "Sal", though they are not strikingly obvious as similar. It think it's worthy to point out to Armenians that in many words with gh from our language were shifts from an L sound in PIE, as odd as it may seem. Shifts from using the tip of the tongue to using the center of your tongue aren't very common changes and I'd like to find out if Armenian experienced an intermediary sound during this shift at one point. It might help me see this shift as not so odd.

For bag, we say Baysag (the only word for bag that I use in Armenian), do you think this is related to the word for Bag, let alone Sack (which is actually a french borrowing, "sac") in English? Could it be a case of exaptation (fusing two words into one seamless form, inheriting a specialized or unifying meaning) between Barg and Qsag?

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Which ones do you mean? And I wonder how you make the correlation. By the etymology of the words?

Which ones do you mean? And I wonder how you make the correlation. By the etymology of the words?

Lucin jan, I had no particular "tribe" in mind when I made the comment. It was just a speculation on my part, albeit linguistically speaking a sound speculation. As we all know, language is unique to nations but all nations are more-or-less derived from tribal mixes. There are very few, if any, pure/unmixed nations on earth today. More isolated a nation is geographically less mixed they tend to be. When a nation's language has more than one word for one item (as in the Armenian case with the word, hair) it's very probably that in antiquity other linguistic groups were either absorbed into the 'proto' Armenian language or was influence by some political force. Although generally speaking only 'one' language gets to dominate in a linguistic group, the language retains some remnants of other absorbed or influential languages, be it in dialect, lexicon or grammar. We Armenians are a conglomeration, a mix, of various different Anatolian (Asia Minor) and Caucasian tribes. The evidence for this is our history (Urartu), our diverse physical appearance and our unique language, which has an Aryan (Indo-European) foundation but is heavily influence by Caucasian (Kartavelian) and other yet unknown influences.

By the way, in your Armenian/Persian list you did not differentiate between words that have been borrowed and words that have been inherited. The interesting part in this discussion are the 'inherited' words, not the borrowed words. Don't you think it's more interesting to figure out how English and Armenian have almost identical words for "squirrel" (Arm: սկյուռ) and "hair" (Arm: հեր) then "Internet" or "Football"?

The inherited words imply that the two languages in question were derived from one root while borrowed words simply imply that there was cultural/political contact between the two languages. I would suspect most of the Persian words found in Armenian today is borrowed during the pre-Islamic period of the Persian Empire. Due to the closeness of the two peoples during antiquity it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to find the inherited words between the two languages.

I would also like to add two additional words (and one suspect word) that Armenian shares with English:

Agh/Al (Salt)

Barg (bag)

Qsak (sack???)

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

«Ծամ»ն եք մորանում...

There are 'four' words denoting "hair" in Armenian; ծամ, հեր, մազ եւ վարս. These words may indicate the presence of four different prehistoric tribal groups within Armenia's ethnogenesis.

Which ones do you mean? And I wonder how you make the correlation. By the etymology of the words?

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

I use maz the most for hair. What about the rest of you?

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

«Ծամ»ն եք մորանում...

There are 'four' words denoting "hair" in Armenian; ծամ, հեր, մազ եւ վարս. These words may indicate the presence of four different prehistoric tribal groups within Armenia's ethnogenesis.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

her in Armenian means hair?

I have always heard/ used the word maz as well as vars referring to hair.

Indeed Lucin jan. «Հեր», «մազ» եւ «վարս» հոմանիշ բառեր են։ Բայց «մազ» ամենէն գործածուածն է ամէն օրուայ խօսակցութեան մէջ։

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Kov (Cow), muk (mouse), sqiyur (squirrel), vagr (tiger), katu (cat), shun (hound), lusin (lunar), lus-aber (light bearer/Lucifer), armuk (elbow), ach (eye), vod (foot), get (wet), tur (door), ber (bear/burden), qar/qarord (quarter/four), tarnal (to turn), ser (sex), serm (sperm), kark (cart), hot (herd), jisht (just), her (hair), shakal (jackal), ut-el (eat), ls-el (to listen), es-el (to say), qar (rock pronounced backwards), kuj (jug pronounced backwards), lav (well pronounced backwards), ov (who pronounced backwards), buys/tup (bush), tsul (bull), entanur (entire), otar (other), nor (new), glor (globe), meas (meat), khor-ovel (char-broil), duyl (pail), gini (wine), berd (fort), patker (picture), petur (feather), kt-rel (to cut), manr (mini), mrmral (murmur), tapalel (topple), mets (mega), hur (fire/pyr), du (you), astgh (star/aster), jarb (lard), em (I am), charcharel (torture), mich (middle), ayo (yes/ay/ya), vorb (orphan), hod (odor), lao (lad), metagh (metal), patizh (punish), sirt (heart), dev (devil), surb (saint), kam (come), mid (mind), aq (axle), partez (garden), paytsar (bright), hasdad (fasten), sprel (spread/spew), vat (bad), ayt/da (that), jerm (worm), sard (spider), vort (worm), atel (hate???) amur (armor???), hska (husky???), ashun (autumn???), zndan (dungeon???)...

Anymore?

her in Armenian means hair?

I have always heard/ used the word maz as well as vars referring to hair.


Now let's compare it with some Persian words:

Armenian/ Persian:

Panir/panir, kuj/kuze, nur/ anar, nizak/neyze, vat/ bad, drnaban/ darban, koshik/ kafsh, mek/ yek, chors/ chahar, hing/ panj, yot/ haft, ut/ hasht, in/ noh, tas/ dah, spitak/ sepid, sev/ siyah, gayl/ gorg, yar/ yar, pogh/ pul, karmir/ ghermez, mijin/ miyane, maz/ mu, armunk/ arenj, arjan/ arzan, bakht/ bakht, arjani/ arzani, matit/ medad, tsurd/ sard, ayd/ an, du/ to, menk/ ma, petur/ par, shakar/ shekar, takhtak/ takhte, astgh/ setare, nor/ no, muk/ mush, zrah/ zereh, gohar/ gohar, tshnami/ doshman, das/ dars, dur/ dar, barak/ barik, pigh/ fil, kov/ gav, katu/ gorbe, gulba/ jurab, karag/ kare, razmakan/ razmi...

Add more if you can.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Nice contribution Armenian!

And yes you're right about the fact that not all the words we are referring to in English are inherited. There's so many of these cases that it hardly needs mentioning anymore, then again, many people simply don't realize.