Eurovision

[KanadaHye]

Re: Eurovision

I actually came up with my explanation before finding that link.... and that link confirmed my explanation. Think it's a Persian author that wrote that though..... there, I changed it... maybe you thought I was trying to say Aazar or Aatar meant fire in Armenian.... when I meant Persian/arabic

[Hellektor]

Re: Eurovision

Azar means fire/scarlet.... look it up... Azar is a popular last name among Christian Lebanese and it comes from Persian meaning "fire".

What's it you are not getting? Read the fucking thing I posted where I say:

“atr” (ատր) has a clear definition and means fire. Azar is the Arabized and re-Persianized form of atr/atur = fire. Which part of this don't you understand? Read the goddamn thing I posted before commenting.

[Hellektor]

Re: Eurovision

There be oil in Baku... where there is oil there is fire. You're trying to tie it wayyyy back in history.

This is the point! This is the desperate attempt of the Azerbaboons to somehow tie the name Azarbaijan to their fake nonentity.

Once and for all:

A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River NEVER existed before 1918

If you can bring A SINGLE HISTORIC DOCUMENT of whichever origin WRITTEN BEFORE 1918 where it talks of a country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River, I will eat my head.

[Hellektor]

Re: Eurovision

Somehow my explanation makes more sense.... and yours sounds like Armenian propaganda

OK, I just checked your link. It doesn't seem to have been done by an “Azeri”. I didn't read the whole thing but what you posted is total crap. It’s not your fault; the author must have talked to uninformed people and believed all he was told without consulting a history book.

Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) means attributed, pertaining to Atropat, the Median satrap who resisted the Seleucids and held on to the independence of the Lesser Media because of which that region was named after him. Which part of this is Armenian propaganda?

It's a historic fact, not Armenian propaganda. Go read ANY historian from ANY period (in my thingy I have included dozens of historians from all ages, many of them from the Islamic era). There's no doubt in the origin or the meaning of the word Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan), and since your user nick was KanadaHye, I didn't know you were not an Armenian and believed in Turk falsifications of history. Curious, are you a Turk? No offence, just interested.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Eurovision

Somehow my explanation makes more sense.... and yours sounds like Armenian propaganda There be oil in Baku... where there is oil there is fire. You're trying to tie it wayyyy back in history.

Azar means fire/scarlet.... look it up... Azar is a popular last name among Christian Lebanese and it comes from Persian meaning "fire".

[Hellektor]

Re: Eurovision

Aazar or Attar does mean fire ??? WTF??? H.

Azar - people who worship fire ??? WTF??? H.

Baijan - means "attack" in old tongue ??? WTF??? H.

P.S. Attar does mean horseshit or cattleshit or bullshit in Armenian, no kiddin'! It was used in rural areas and olden times as fuel for baking bread for instance. H.

24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Azerbullshit, ...

Oh dear,

KanadaHye, what you copy/pasted here from the Azerbaboon link you provided is pure, 24 carat, unadulterated, stinking Turkdung! NEVER, never, ever buy any crap concerning history from the Turk falsifiers.

Last year I posted a research I had done after a year and a half of hard work on several Armenian boards. It's called And the Fraud Had a Name. Azarbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd.

The link above will take you to the first page of this thingy where I have also included the chapters The Origin of the Term Azarbaijan and The Meaning of the Term Azarbaijan (Ատրպատական).

It includes 32 pics, many of them tables and maps I made myself, all of which along with hundreds of other pics I had posted to the photo album of armeniangenocide.com when this board had not been merged with HyeClub. The sad thing that's happened is that the photo album's gone without warning. I've mentioned this a couple of times with no response from the admin and what's worse, the links function as popup launchers everytime you go to those pages, really annoying. I wish some user would offer a couple of megs of space where I could upload the pics and later edit the image URLs...

The good news is I have also made a PDF of the thingy which is more user friendly than the web version. You are invited to download it here.

What the hell, I copy paste the two chapters mentioned, just in case you didn't feel like going there:

The Origin of the Term Azarbaijan

The origin of the word Azarbaijan is traced back to the language family whose relation to a term or a language is sophistically abused by the Turks to “prove” its being Turkish or otherwise: If a term can be proved not to belong to the Indo-European group of languages then it must be Turkish.

After Alexander's victory over Darius III and the fall of the Achaemenid Empire, Iran came under the Seleucid rule soon after Alexander's death. However, a satrap named Aturpat (Atrpat, Atropat, Atropates) established an independent state in the northwest region of Iran (known as the Lesser Media) which from then on was called Atrpatakan/Aturpatekan after him. Even after some 23 centuries, the region is still called Atrpatakan in Armenian as opposed to the term Adrbeijan which is used in Armenian to designate the bogus state north of the region.

The perhaps unique use of two different names in Armenian is an inevitable necessity because on one hand calling the fake nonentity Atrpatakan would enrage the counterfeiters who would accuse the Armenians of hostility; on the other hand the Armenians had no reason to change the original name of Atrpatakan into “Azerbaijan”.

It should be noted that the Persian language underwent substantial changes after the Arab invasion. Unlike almost all the other conquered nations, the Iranians managed to keep their language at the cost of thousands of original words being replaced by their Arabic equivalents and countless others adapting their pronunciation to some kind of Perso-Arabic, cf. “paradisa” = paradise became “ferdows”, “Pars” became “Fars”, etc.

Rejecting the customs and laws of the Arabs, the Armenians held on to their culture at the cost of centuries long suffering and oppression under the Arab occupation. As a result of this resistance a considerable number of words can still be found in Armenian that share their roots with Pahlavi and other old Persian languages.

Atrpatakan/Aturpayegan is rendered in Arabic pronunciation as Adhrbeijan. The “t” in Aturpayegan is the unaspirated variant of “t” nonexistent in Arabic. It was replaced with “dhal”, a sound similar to the voiced “th” in “this”. The sounds “p” and “g” do not exist in Arabic and are replaced with phonemes “f” or “b” and “k” or “j” or “gh (ghein)” respectively.

The word Azarbaijan is the re-Persianized form of the Arabized Adhrbeijan “z” replacing the phoneme represented by the Arabic “dhal” which is nonexistent in Persian. The vowels are also adapted to the language.

As stated earlier the Arabized word “Adrbeijan” is used in Armenian for the artificially created state, “d” being considered closer to the “dhal” than “z” in Armenian which also does not have any form of the “th” sound.

*****

The Meaning of the Term Azarbaijan (Ատրպատական)

Atrpat (Ատրպատ) or Aturpat in Middle Persian is believed to have meant “keeper of fire” or “protector of fire”, or according to Minorsky “protected by fire” which is closer to the meaning of the Armenian Atrpat. The “protector” definition has been deduced from the later Persian (older new-Persian) pronunciation Aturpayegan, the final “t” of Aturpat having changed to “y”. “Atur” means fire and “pay” (pronounce pie) is from the Persian infinitive “pyidan” meaning to keep, protect, watch over.

In the Armenian Atrpatakan (Ատրպատական) (“t”, “p” and “k” are all unaspirated, similar to the corresponding sounds in Russian. To experience this in English while holding your hand in front of your mouth, say: “peak” then “speak”, “tick” then “stick”, “kid” then “skid”. In the second case, unlike the first words of the series, there is no puff of air from “p”, “t”, and “k”. The former are known as aspirated and the latter unaspirated consonants.), “atr” (ատր) has a clear definition and means fire. This word is used in present day Armenian in a manner similar to a prefix meaning fire in words like “atrtjanak” (ատրճանակ) = firearm, “atroushan” (ատրուշան) = the place/holder for the eternal fire in a fire temple.

The “pat” (պատ = wall, surrounding, etc.) in the name Atrpat may have had the present day meaning of wall or surrounding which corresponds with Minorsky’s definition, Atrpat rather having originally meant surrounded by fire (cf. “patel” (պատել) = to surround) similar to “tsankapat” (ցանկապատ) = fence, “zrahapat” (զրահապատ) = armored (division, car, etc.). “To keep” in Armenian is “pahel” (պահել) which is from the same root as the Persian “pyidan”. In addition to Atrpatakan (Ատրպատական), as Kassravi confirms it “Atrpyakan” (Ատրպայական) appears in Armenian sources as well and it might have entered these as a result of the later meaning change in Persian. The Armenian word “Pyik” (պայիկ) from Pahlavi “Paig”, present day Persian “payk” meaning messenger, also means a guard (of a fortress, etc.) the more usual Armenian word for a guard being “pahak” (պահակ). This way the definition of guardian or protector of fire may have also been carried into Armenian.

Pigulevskaia’s theory concerning the earlier origin of the term Adurbadegan deduced from Assyrian sources, discussed in a section presenting this scholar rather emphasizes this “wall” meaning.

I have not come across “Atrpah” or “Atrpahakan” in Armenian. Since Atrpatakan has remained the same throughout millennia being the usual Armenian appellation of Azarbaijan (the real) today and the historians of antiquity have also reported of Atropat and not Atropye, it is interesting to see whether historians/linguists can consider an original meaning of “surrounded/protected by fire” rather than “keeper/protector of fire” more appropriate for Atrpat (Atropat). In any case this does not change anything regarding the Indo-European origin of the term.

The “akan” (ական) part is also clear: “parskakan”, “hyekakan”, “fransakan”, “angliakan”, “hndkakan”, “arabakan”, “islamakan”, etc. It is a suffix that means attributed to or specific to. Atrpatakan = attributed to, land of Atrpat (Atropat).

The renowned Russian academician Bartold says of the origin of the name Azarbaijan (the real): “The Greeks called it Atropatena and the Armenians called it Atrpatakan. This is where the name of Azarbaijan originated”.

One of few more or less honest “Azeri” historians Igrar Aliev also confirms that Atrpatakan means attributed to, named after Atropat, after studying terms such as the Parthian Friapatikan from Friapatia and the Armenian Anahitakan from Anahit.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Eurovision

Azarbaijan does not mean land of fire. Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) means attributed, named after Atrpat (Atropat). At most one could say Land of Atropat not land of fire. This shows their total ignorance of the name they stole from Iran for their fabricated state, counterfeited on Armenian territory in 1918 to prevent the resurrection of that part of Armenia not under Ottoman occupation that had become free after the Judeo-Bolshevik “revolution” of that Jew Tatar agitator Ulyanov who changed his name to Lenin. They called their nonentity “Azerbaijan” for further pan-Turkist claims on real Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) that they weren't able to steal after centuries of war with the Safavid Empire, all fought on Armenian territory of course.

Aazar or Aatar does mean fire (persian)
Azar - people who worship fire
Baijan - means "attack" in old tongue

If it had turkish roots, then it would have been called Atashbaijan

But......

Doesn't baadgaan or paatkann mean "belong to" in Armenian?

So from the Armenian roots, that would mean land that "belongs to the people of fire"

See below...

(Persian Source)
The origin of this country’s name, Azerbaijan, is from our own word “Aazar” or “Aatar” meaning fire, because in ancient times, there were a number of Aatash Kadehs in this country similar to the natural gas fire in Baku and in other places. One of our highest Aatash Behraam, Aadar Gushaspa, was also in this country whose other names were: “Aadarbaadgaan” or “Aataropaatkaan”. Hence, there should be a similar Aatash Kadeh in Baku. Ten miles from Baku, I described previously in this book, the “Kur”, “Kurus” (Cyrus) river which starts in Caucasus Mountains and empties in Caspian (Vourukash) sea. It has been stated in history that the Roman Emperor, Heraclius, ordered to destroy all Aatash Kadehs up to this river. The above mentioned writer, Mr. Henry, writes the following account about Baku, quoting from Gibbon:

"Heraclius encamped (?) on the steppes at the shores of the Kura, ten miles south of Baku. There Gibbon says ... At his command the soldiers extinguished the fires and the temples of the Magi. Twelve years later, Persia was vanquished a second time by the Arabs who at the edge of the sword converted the people from fire worship to the Musalman faith. Large numbers fled to Ormuz, thence to India and gave origin to what are now the Parsees of Bombay."
It is said that the Lithuanians, the U.S.S.R. neighbors, also used to visit Azerbaijan to worship these fires.

The real story behind Gibbon mentioning about the destruction (extinguishing) of the Baku’s Zoroastrian Aatash Kadehs at the hands of Heraclius is as follows: The Persian Emperor, Khushroo Perviz, attacked the holy Christian places in Palestine and carried with him to Iran the holy cross on which Jesus Christ was crucified. In revenge for carrying this Cross to Iran, this Roman Emperor destroyed the Iranian Aatash Kadehs.

http://www.avesta.org/modi/baku.htm

[Hellektor]

Re: Eurovision

What is further shocking is that while the "azeris" claimed we were using Artsakh's monuments in our video reels, they had the audacity to put a picture of an Iranian national monument in Tabriz, the claimed capital of so-called "South Azerbaijan". Where the hell was Iran to complain?

Where the hell was Iran to complain when the Ottoman Tyranny stole the name Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) and counterfeited a Turkic “country” on Armenian territory in 1918, using the nomadic Tatars of the area who lived according to a primitive, tribal clan system as the core of that bogus nation?

Why didn't we complain about this ourselves too?

Why didn't we do shit when they barbarically destroyed the ancient Jugha cemetery in broad daylight? We should have attacked Nakhijevan and liberate it; or at least we could have flown a helicopter gunship to kill the scum that was destroying the khachkars (the world would definitely have understood, there was no way they could have condemned the Armenians for such a raid); or at least we could have stopped the negotiations with the sore, warmongering, genocidal “Azeri” losers, explaining to the international community that it was impossible to negotiate on ceding territory to these sore losers when these savages were destroying our centuries old heritage in the open; or at least we could have filed a complaint at the UN or an international court of justice or what... What did we do that we get so worked up by this relatively far, far less significant issue? It's our fault, as long as we don't give them a slap in their brazen faces they'll become even more brazen.

A propos, where's the response from our lousy Serzh and Edward, who with their sloppy football diplomacy and 22nd April mock up threw us into such a vicious Turkic trap, where Erdogan is braying from all international podia that the border won't open until Armenians withdraw from Artsakh?

If Armenia says we'll stop the talks because Erdogan is howling, the Judeo-Fagson world will find Armenia guilty of stopping the talks and if our worthless statesmen shut up and don't say a word, they'll force Armenia into more and more concessions. We are caught in a trap these lousy diplomats of ours dug for us.

[Hellektor]

Re: Eurovision

And then the obnoxious 'girl' (she looked as hideous as a transvestite) announcing their votes goes on saying shamelessly; from land of fire translating Azarbaijan from Persian... lol, they are way too poor...

Azarbaijan does not mean land of fire. Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) means attributed, named after Atrpat (Atropat). At most one could say Land of Atropat not land of fire. This shows their total ignorance of the name they stole from Iran for their fabricated state, counterfeited on Armenian territory in 1918 to prevent the resurrection of that part of Armenia not under Ottoman occupation that had become free after the Judeo-Bolshevik “revolution” of that Jew Tatar agitator Ulyanov who changed his name to Lenin. They called their nonentity “Azerbaijan” for further pan-Turkist claims on real Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) that they weren't able to steal after centuries of war with the Safavid Empire, all fought on Armenian territory of course.

[Tiko310]

Re: Eurovision

really? can you tell us why exactly? this is hilarious!