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Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

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  • Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

    What do you think about it?

  • #2
    Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

    The fact that Turks are able to talk about it in Turkey tells me they're crawling out of the political stone ages. I'm impressed. Even while doing some recon at the ataa website, while reading about their non-stop generalization about Armenians being terrorists, in between the lines they were conceding that hundreds of thousands of Armenians died. This is also new for most older Turks.

    Having been raised in such a hyped up nationalist culture, these must seem 'treasonous' to the older Turks.

    With the internet, and understanding that there really is a little bit of Hrant Dink inside many loyal Turkish citizens, I believe that Turkey is actually striving to remove the powers-that-be (military) from governmental control.

    It's sad to see this whereas Armenians (since this is an Armenan messageboard) are so smart, talented, and prosperous in any/every arena of live they venture (music, career, business, ect) EXCEPT politics. We can't even get along with ourselves, and tolerate those who have a different opinion on an issue...how can we ever be a truly independent nation? Turkey is developing its independence from NATO/U.S. whereas Armenia is going from a Russian satellite to some xxxxx, selling its soul to genocide-denying, anti-Armenian bigots (kemalists)...who will probably sell Artsakh back to Azerbaijan.

    I'm happy for Turkish people. Their future looks good. I'm sad as an Armenian, because since 1993, by every passing year, I have less and less reason (and emotion) about returning to what is left of Hayastan. Once they admit to the faults of the older generations, and stop their ethnic/race based laws/nationalism, I believe many Armenians will move there. Already you have so many Tashnags visiting Turkey, and Armenian citizens smuggling into Turkey, once Turkey becomes more 'open', I can see more Armenians doing what is already going on today...despite the facts regarding todays Turkish government. And for the record, I'll never be one of them...I'll never move Turkey.
    kurtšul kangal

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

      Originally posted by AlphaPapa View Post
      The fact that Turks are able to talk about it in Turkey tells me they're crawling out of the political stone ages. I'm impressed. Even while doing some recon at the ataa website, while reading about their non-stop generalization about Armenians being terrorists, in between the lines they were conceding that hundreds of thousands of Armenians died. This is also new for most older Turks.

      Having been raised in such a hyped up nationalist culture, these must seem 'treasonous' to the older Turks.

      With the internet, and understanding that there really is a little bit of Hrant Dink inside many loyal Turkish citizens, I believe that Turkey is actually striving to remove the powers-that-be (military) from governmental control.

      It's sad to see this whereas Armenians (since this is an Armenan messageboard) are so smart, talented, and prosperous in any/every arena of live they venture (music, career, business, ect) EXCEPT politics. We can't even get along with ourselves, and tolerate those who have a different opinion on an issue...how can we ever be a truly independent nation? Turkey is developing its independence from NATO/U.S. whereas Armenia is going from a Russian satellite to some xxxxx, selling its soul to genocide-denying, anti-Armenian bigots (kemalists)...who will probably sell Artsakh back to Azerbaijan.

      I'm happy for Turkish people. Their future looks good. I'm sad as an Armenian, because since 1993, by every passing year, I have less and less reason (and emotion) about returning to what is left of Hayastan. Once they admit to the faults of the older generations, and stop their ethnic/race based laws/nationalism, I believe many Armenians will move there. Already you have so many Tashnags visiting Turkey, and Armenian citizens smuggling into Turkey, once Turkey becomes more 'open', I can see more Armenians doing what is already going on today...despite the facts regarding todays Turkish government. And for the record, I'll never be one of them...I'll never move Turkey.

      You have quite a distorted view of Armenia and its future. Things are not as bleak for Armenia as you assume nor are they as bright for turkey. The rift inside the turkish power structure is not a big issue, whichever side wins, turkey will continue to operate the same way it has for the past 70 years. Their core interests and alliancies are unlikely to change. Do not fall into the delusion that there is row between ankara and tel aviv or ankara and washington. The modern republic of turkey was established by western permission and it will take something drastic for this relationship to be terminated on either end.

      As for Armenians not getting along with each other, well I guess that has been a national curse for sometime, but as others have pointed out, Moscow will ensure that Armenians do not shot themselves in the head, so to speak, since Moscow has designs on the role Armenia is to play in the region. However, it is never too late to change behaviors, in this case I do think it starts with one person at a time. It also would not hurt for officials in Yerevan to promote patriotic ideals amongst the populace of Armenia and the Diaspora, especially the youth.

      I, unlike you, am looking forward to doing everything I can to help Armenia progress in all spheres. There is a difference between realism and pessimism, I hope you realize that.
      Last edited by Armanen; 10-18-2009, 04:28 PM.
      For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
      to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



      http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

        If you search those keywords you'll find that we have covered this area extensively for the past 4 years.
        "All truth passes through three stages:
        First, it is ridiculed;
        Second, it is violently opposed; and
        Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

        Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

          Originally posted by Gavur View Post
          If you search those keywords you'll find that we have covered this area extensively for the past 4 years.
          Ah really? Sorry I did not know. My bad

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

            And what are you doing?

            In regards to what I pointed out and you replied to, Armenia resists harshly to freedom of speech, press, and treats war heroes worse than enemies.

            I would like to be an optimist but I see the deck stacked against Armenia. I'm not pessimistic either, because we still have a lot of political clout at our disposal, and offer the homeland a lot of support as the xxxish did/do Israel.

            I also see Turkey advancing nationally every imaginable way possible.

            I'm open to suggestions...should I move to Yerevan? Donate to a charity? What do you suggest?
            kurtšul kangal

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

              Originally posted by AlphaPapa View Post
              The fact that Turks are able to talk about it in Turkey tells me they're crawling out of the political stone ages. I'm impressed. Even while doing some recon at the ataa website, while reading about their non-stop generalization about Armenians being terrorists, in between the lines they were conceding that hundreds of thousands of Armenians died. This is also new for most older Turks.

              Having been raised in such a hyped up nationalist culture, these must seem 'treasonous' to the older Turks.

              With the internet, and understanding that there really is a little bit of Hrant Dink inside many loyal Turkish citizens, I believe that Turkey is actually striving to remove the powers-that-be (military) from governmental control.

              It's sad to see this whereas Armenians (since this is an Armenan messageboard) are so smart, talented, and prosperous in any/every arena of live they venture (music, career, business, ect) EXCEPT politics. We can't even get along with ourselves, and tolerate those who have a different opinion on an issue...how can we ever be a truly independent nation? Turkey is developing its independence from NATO/U.S. whereas Armenia is going from a Russian satellite to some xxxxx, selling its soul to genocide-denying, anti-Armenian bigots (kemalists)...who will probably sell Artsakh back to Azerbaijan.

              I'm happy for Turkish people. Their future looks good. I'm sad as an Armenian, because since 1993, by every passing year, I have less and less reason (and emotion) about returning to what is left of Hayastan. Once they admit to the faults of the older generations, and stop their ethnic/race based laws/nationalism, I believe many Armenians will move there. Already you have so many Tashnags visiting Turkey, and Armenian citizens smuggling into Turkey, once Turkey becomes more 'open', I can see more Armenians doing what is already going on today...despite the facts regarding todays Turkish government. And for the record, I'll never be one of them...I'll never move Turkey.
              Good post........and I agree.
              B0zkurt Hunter

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

                Originally posted by AlphaPapa View Post
                And what are you doing?

                In regards to what I pointed out and you replied to, Armenia resists harshly to freedom of speech, press, and treats war heroes worse than enemies.

                I would like to be an optimist but I see the deck stacked against Armenia. I'm not pessimistic either, because we still have a lot of political clout at our disposal, and offer the homeland a lot of support as the xxxish did/do Israel.

                I also see Turkey advancing nationally every imaginable way possible.

                I'm open to suggestions...should I move to Yerevan? Donate to a charity? What do you suggest?

                You may consider looking at what skills you have any how you can put them to use for Armenia and Armenians. If that includes moving to Armenia then so be it, but change will happen quicker if Armenians who really want to change things for the better, in Armenia, move to Armenia rather than bit*h and moan about it from afar.

                And again, I think you are giving the turks too much credit.
                For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

                  And what are you doing though? The question remains.
                  kurtšul kangal

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Ergenekon and Turkish Gladio

                    Originally posted by AlphaPapa View Post
                    And what are you doing though? The question remains.
                    I visit Armenia on a yearly basis, and along with my brother have purchased land there.

                    Now, what are you doing? You admit to not having been to Armenia since you left in the early 90s. Or am I mistaken?
                    For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                    to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                    http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                    Comment

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