Do we have an expriration date???

[Armanen]

On the one hand you're saying that we need to improve things, and on the other hand you're saying that if you happened to live there, you would leave. If everyone shared your mentality (which I'm sure you wouldn't mind), then who exactly is going to "improve things"? The ghost of Christmas past?

Some people point out a problem. Others do the same but also work toward a solution. Read his/her other posts, they are not much different.

Why do you feel the need to attack someone because they have a different opinion? How is their expression "anti-Armenianism"? The way I see it, your post is a reflection of anti-intellectualism and mental midgetry. You can express concern of their opinion and disagreement and why you think so, but all too often these 'strong Armenians' on the internet are all about condemning those that don't fit into their pathetic nationalist mold. Have a damn beer for propriety's sake and settle down.

Others pointed out how his comment and way of thinking is harmful. In other posts of his, especially the earlier ones I tried to reason with the guy and give him my take with positive facts to back it up. After sometime I see him/her continuing to make the same type of comments, so when I see them and they happen to be especially absurd or anti Armenian (IMO), I say so.

Thanks Mouse



Armanen, if I've said something you disagree with, please explain why. If I'm wrong, please correct me. If I differ in opinion, please respect me.

No offense, but I've met many irrational patriots, and they're always the ones that do the more harm than assimilated Armenians. They also have daughters that date sev and arab guys, so there's something to that psychology. We don't need to make personal attacks when we're talking about community/national issues.

I have multiple times said nicely why I disagree with you, why your reasoning is flawed and unpatriotic. I will tolerate your opinion of course, but that doesn't mean I will not attack your position, if I did attack you well that was poor judgement on my part, sometimes I get worked up and say what is on my mind without filtering it.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Do we have an expriration date???

Why do you feel the need to attack someone because they have a different opinion? How is their expression "anti-Armenianism"? The way I see it, your post is a reflection of anti-intellectualism and mental midgetry. You can express concern of their opinion and disagreement and why you think so, but all too often these 'strong Armenians' on the internet are all about condemning those that don't fit into their pathetic nationalist mold. Have a damn beer for propriety's sake and settle down.

Ooh please this is not about difference in opinion about political mater or something. Go and read while he's talking about the government everything was fine but the problem started when Alpha started making anti-Armenia posts the same BS posts you see from Azeri and Turkish posters go and read some of his posts and you will see it.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Do we have an expriration date???

I'm not a politician with solutions. I can only tell you how most people think, and if the country you live in is bad, and you have an opportunity to improve things for your family, you will.

There's a difference between being a wealthy diasporan and moving to Armenia and being a poor indigenous and wanting to find diasporan opportunities.

If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. In the meantime, speaking for myself, I'm not in a position to move there right now. What's wrong with wanting to move there and wanting Armenia to improve AND admitting that Armenia today has very little potential and opportunities? Do I need to lie to myself and others and make up excuses or should I just be honest?

All I'm saying is that if everyone thought like you did, Armenia would lose 95% of its citizens, and only wealthy diasporans would choose to live in Armenia. Those diasporans can't do anything if there isn't much of a population left.

You should think about the fact that Lebanese-Armenians always talk about Lebanon like it was heaven, even though most of them were dirt-poor and grew up surrounded by endless war, not to mention the corruption/favoritism within the Lebanese government, and the fact that until today, you can only get a decent job if you "know people". Somehow when it comes to Armenia, there are different standards when judging whether or not it is a "good" or "bad" country. Maybe Armenia needs a coastline dotted with nightclubs full of hot-blooded Arabic women in order for these people to sing praise about Armenia.

[Catharsis]

Re: Do we have an expriration date???

All I'm saying is that if everyone thought like you did, Armenia would lose 95% of its citizens, and only wealthy diasporans would choose to live in Armenia. Those diasporans can't do anything if there isn't much of a population left.

You should think about the fact that Lebanese-Armenians always talk about Lebanon like it was heaven, even though most of them were dirt-poor and grew up surrounded by endless war, not to mention the corruption/favoritism within the Lebanese government, and the fact that until today, you can only get a decent job if you "know people". Somehow when it comes to Armenia, there are different standards when judging whether or not it is a "good" or "bad" country. Maybe Armenia needs a coastline dotted with nightclubs full of hot-blooded Arabic women in order for these people to sing praise about Armenia.

I have to agree here. Even our "traditionally strong" Near Eastern communities are undergoing changes as third and fourth generation Armenians start to merge more and more with the host populations - feeling more attached, as opposed to what their grandparents or parents were like. The assimilation in the West is even at a faster pace. Of course, the Homeland must do more in order that the communities are able to last longer and of course in turn, Diaspora has to do more for the Homeland, it is, as I said, a symbiotic relationship.

We only have one Mother Armenia that is truly ours (when I say Armenia, I mean what we control today namely the two Armenian republics which are about 10% of historic Armenia) and we should do everything we can to make it better. If the criticism is constructive we need it, but if it is from some other deep seated complexes, than we must all look into our hearts and souls to understand the actual reason.

[Armanen]

Re: Do we have an expriration date???

I have to agree here. Even our "traditionally strong" Near Eastern communities are undergoing changes as third and fourth generation Armenians start to merge more and more with the host populations - feeling more attached, as opposed to what their grandparents or parents were like. The assimilation in the West is even at a faster pace. Of course, the Homeland must do more in order that the communities are able to last longer and of course in turn, Diaspora has to do more for the Homeland, it is, as I said, a symbiotic relationship.

We only have one Mother Armenia that is truly ours (when I say Armenia, I mean what we control today namely the two Armenian republics which are about 10% of historic Armenia) and we should do everything we can to make it better. If the criticism is constructive we need it, but if it is from some other deep seated complexes, than we must all look into our hearts and souls to understand the actual reason.

Yes, I agree with this. Armenia is a new country, it is in a bad geopolitical region, it is landlocked, it has no great abundance of natural resources, and two of its four borders are closed. Building a nation state is no easy challenge by itself but when one has to deal with the factors I listed above it makes the task even harder. However, as the saying goes, 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going'.

[Catharsis]

Re: Do we have an expriration date???

Yes, I agree with this. Armenia is a new country, it is in a bad geopolitical region, it is landlocked, it has no great abundance of natural resources, and two of its four borders are closed. Building a nation state is no easy challenge by itself but when one has to deal with the factors I listed above it makes the task even harder. However, as the saying goes, 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going'.

Indeed Armanen, I have never lost my optimism (which does not mean I am not looking at the situation realistically). Pessimism, when it comes to nation building is already a half-defeat. The task at hand is a hard road full of endless struggle that we must embrace for the sake of both independence and liberty. As Ben Franklin succinctly put it - "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[AlphaPapa]

I have multiple times said nicely why I disagree with you, why your reasoning is flawed and unpatriotic. I will tolerate your opinion of course, but that doesn't mean I will not attack your position, if I did attack you well that was poor judgement on my part, sometimes I get worked up and say what is on my mind without filtering it.

I can respect criticism. Next time leave the personal insults out of it though. I can get worked up also, but I'm not one who does a lot of 'talking'. If I'm wrong and in an unpatriotic way, I challenge ANYONE to correct me.

To answer the original question, no, we don't have an expiration date as a diaspora or a homeland. We're too stubborn. The day our unity against Turkey ends, we'll build a great Armenia where we'll want to move to.

I consider myself an optimist, but only because I believe we're getting to the point where we can talk about our history and current events without labels. By being frank, we'll be strong mentally to take on the challenges we face with Iran, Russia, and Turkey as neighbors. Look at Israel, for example, to see what being head-strong can get you.

[Catharsis]

Re: Do we have an expriration date???

I consider myself an optimist, but only because I believe we're getting to the point where we can talk about our history and current events without labels. By being frank, we'll be strong mentally to take on the challenges we face with Iran, Russia, and Turkey as neighbors. Look at Israel, for example, to see what being head-strong can get you.

That is correct, we must be frank and sincere. It is not helping anyone to heap empty praises. That is not even actually helping the current government that we have. If anything, like all of us, they need a "introspection" (a reality check if you will) which quite a lot of time they do not, by not looking both inward and outward. Of course there is also a good point to try to also offer solutions (and I am not saying you haven't just a general point in this regard).

[Armanen]

Re: Do we have an expriration date???

To answer the original question, no, we don't have an expiration date as a diaspora or a homeland. We're too stubborn. The day our unity against Turkey ends, we'll build a great Armenia where we'll want to move to.

What do you mean by the last sentence?