Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

[Eddo211]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

To sum up on the Yovanovitch statement:

Her statement makes it clear that "Meds Yeghern" was put forward for presidential use well before Obama was elected and is therefore the product of a bipartisan decision in the State Department.

It is clear that the purpose of using "Meds Yeghern" was to obscure the true nature of the Armenian Genocide, give Armenians the impression that it was being used to designate their genocide but actually was intended to be understood as referring to nothing but an unfortunate, tragic, deplorable calamity.

That is where things stand at this point.

What is called for is to continue the campaign to insist that the President of the United States, in English and in so many words, refer to the Armenian Genocide on April 24th as such, while at the same time not allowing "Meds Yeghern" to be translated in any way short of "Great Crime", because it is one of the Armenian names for the Genocide. Otherwise, the only name accorded to the Armenian Genocide from now on from the Executive Branch will be "Meds Yeghern/Great Calamity". This is a mistranslation and a denial of the Genocide.

When the time comes to use it against Turkey they will scream the G word loud and clear for the world to hear it.....that time might be approaching soon the way Turkey is headed (that is if its really not a setup between Israel and Turkey this preceived shift in Turkish foreign policy).

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

To sum up on the Yovanovitch statement:

Her statement makes it clear that "Meds Yeghern" was put forward for presidential use well before Obama was elected and is therefore the product of a bipartisan decision in the State Department.

It is clear that the purpose of using "Meds Yeghern" was to obscure the true nature of the Armenian Genocide, give Armenians the impression that it was being used to designate their genocide but actually was intended to be understood as referring to nothing but an unfortunate, tragic, deplorable calamity.

That is where things stand at this point.

What is called for is to continue the campaign to insist that the President of the United States, in English and in so many words, refer to the Armenian Genocide on April 24th as such, while at the same time not allowing "Meds Yeghern" to be translated in any way short of "Great Crime", because it is one of the Armenian names for the Genocide. Otherwise, the only name accorded to the Armenian Genocide from now on from the Executive Branch will be "Meds Yeghern/Great Calamity". This is a mistranslation and a denial of the Genocide.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Correction to the above:

3. was supposed to be B.

Additionally, in talking about what Armenians BELIEVE about what to call the 'events', the point is made that they are motivated by feelings rather than knowledge and that most of what they say about 'the events' can be understood to reflect this irrational state of mind, rather than as addressing an objective and verifiable fact of history.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

A further look at the Yovanovitch statement:

The statement, with its tortured and highly premeditated verbal evasions, shows every sign of having been crafted by the Turkish Desk of the State Department after hours and hours of work.

A. Consider the following quote: The 'Medz Yeghern' or Great Calamity, as MANY Armenians REFER TO IT.

1. "Many" could be some or most. This is an outright falsification because it is a term that is UNIVERSALLY used by Armenians.

2. After having falsified the number of Armenians using the term and reducing it to a possible minority, we are told that they use it to REFER TO the events in question. They do not use it to 'refer to' the 'events'. This is their NAME for the 'events'.

3. "Many Americans and many Armenians believe that the events I have referred to should be called 'genocide'.

1. "Many" is again used here to mask the actual acceptance by most of the world that Armenians suffered a genocide.

2. Out of all the groupings she could cite on the issue, she selects the obscure 'many Americans' and 'many Armenians" .
What about the International Association of Genocide Scholars? What about the numerous American States and foreign
governments that have officially recognized the Genocide? What about the records of the U. S. government itself?
What about Raphael Lemkin's direct references to the Armenian Genocide? Etc., etc., etc. This is a shabby performance.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

1. Amb. Yovanovitch emphasized that "the U.S. government recognizes and deplores the mass killings, ethnic cleansing, and forced deportations that devastated over one and a half million Armenians at the end of the Ottoman Empire. The United States recognizes these events as one of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century -- the 'Medz Yeghern' or Great Calamity, as many Armenians refer to it. The Administration understands that many Americans and many Armenians believe that the events of the past -- that I have referred to -- should be called 'genocide.' It has been President Bush's policy, as well as that of previous presidents of both parties, not to use that term."


Why 'at the end of the Ottoman Empire'? Is that an excuse?

Why name a whole series of massive crimes, but not even hint that anyone was responsible for them? "Mass killings" soon morphs into the general 'devastation' of the Armenians that "just happened to happen" at the end of the (blah blah blah), by which time the idea that anyone was responsible for it is out the window and forgotten.

We are stuck with deploring [bemoaning], tragedy, calamity, these events, those events, etc. ad nauseam--and then presented with an abrupt genocide denial at the end.

Despite its being a fantasy, the following are the first two sentences as they should have been, just to take stock of the dishonesty that is being practiced.

The U. S. recognizes and deplores the policy of mass killings, ethnic cleansing, and forced deportations of over one and a half million Armenians carried out by the Ottoman government during the First World War.The United States recognizes this policy as one of the greatest crimes of the 20th century--the 'Medz Yeghern" or "Great Crime" as Armenians call it.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Can we imagine Amb. Yovanovitch or anyone at her level saying:

"The United States recognizes these events as one of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century -- the 'Medz Yeghern' or 'Great Crime', as Armenians call it"?

Of course not. It wouldn't even make sense in the context. The only reason she introduced the term "Medz Yeghern" was to have the opportunity of defining it as 'calamity' in order to justify what she said next, namely that most administrations don't refer to it as 'genocide'.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Addendum:

Amb. Yovanovitch's statement clearly reflects the understanding of the highest circles of the U. S. government, regardless of particular administration, that saying Medz Yeghern does NOT amount to a recognition that a genocide was perpetrated against the Armenian people, and it is that understanding that lies at the basis of its use for the past two years on April 24th, whereas in fact Medz Yeghern means Great Crime/Great Atrocity and foreshadows Raphael Lemkin's coining of the term genocide and therefore designates the Genocide of the Armenian people. Those who assume, or would have others assume, that it means anything else are playing the devil's game.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

June 2008, Amb. Yovanovitch in Senate hearings

Amb. Yovanovitch emphasized that "the U.S. government recognizes and deplores the mass killings, ethnic cleansing, and forced deportations that devastated over one and a half million Armenians at the end of the Ottoman Empire. The United States recognizes these events as one of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century -- the 'Medz Yeghern' or Great Calamity, as many Armenians refer to it. The Administration understands that many Americans and many Armenians believe that the events of the past -- that I have referred to -- should be called 'genocide.' It has been President Bush's policy, as well as that of previous presidents of both parties, not to use that term."

http://www.arf1890.com/Archives%202008%20news/June%202008%20news.html

Comment 1:
It is clear from this that those who use the word 'deplore' about mass violence but are unwilling to hold anyone to blame for it are also very likely to refer to it as a CALAMITY.

Comment 2:
It is clear that the master plan of the highest circles of the U. S. government is to stop discussion of the Armenian Genocide at "Great Calamity" and never let it go a step further.

Question:
Who told Amb. Yovanovitch that Medz Yeghern means 'great calamity'?

Comment 3:

What is deplorable is that Amb. Yovanovitch went twenty miles out of her way to say "the mass killings, ethnic cleansing, and forced deportations that devastated over one and a half million Armenians at the end of the Ottoman Empire" instead of simply saying Genocide.

Conclusion:

Medz Yeghern means Great Crime, Great Atrocity--not "deplorable event".

[lampron]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Should the OSCE or PACE or UN or anyone directly condemn Azerbaijan of the events in June 18, Azerbaijani propaganda would create a whole lot of undesirable, aggressive, incredible, amazingly disturbing propaganda against those institutions and/or people and individuals

The UN bodies can be good and independent sometimes (such as the Human Rights Commission). The EU and NATO and PACE have been pro-Azerbaijan and anti-Karabakh for their own political reasons (Azerbaijan is potentially anti-Moscow and anti-Iran) and it has gas and oil. Not because they are afraid of Azerbaijani propaganda

The Armenian side is also at fault. Why have Armenians not raised the Sumgait progrom at international courts and other bodies to demand condemnation?

[ashot24]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

EU Special Representative for the South Caucasus Peter Semneby called the June 18 Azerbaijani provocation [in which 4 Armenian soldiers were killed in a sneak attack] "a deplorable event". A deplorable event? Not a grave violation that should incur a penalty or at least strong censure ?

The same questions apply to those who blindly and habitually call the Medz Yeghern the 'great calamity'. A deplorable event? Not a grave violation. . . .?

The only and most important reason for all those politicians in UN, OSCE, PACE, EU who "condemned" (if that can be considered a condemnation) the events and called both parties to abstain from making such things, even though Azerbaijan was clearly the guilty side (as stated by their own media, later reverted for the "Armenians are guilty of everything" recipe), is because they all really really don't want to anger Azerbaijani spoiled babies.

The reason is no one in their sane mind would want to trigger the Azerbaijani propaganda machine against them. Should the OSCE or PACE or UN or anyone directly condemn Azerbaijan of the events in June 18, Azerbaijani propaganda would create a whole lot of undesirable, aggressive, incredible, amazingly disturbing propaganda against those institutions and/or people and individuals (just look at the persons who were present in the NKR parliamentary elections, they are now "person-nor-Grata", "criminals who violated international law", and even some in Azerbaijan were asking to take them to court), pretty much the same way they prepare everyday against us and have for more than 20 years attacked Armenia and the Armenian people.