Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

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Diranakir replied

05-21-2010, 09:42 AM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diranakir
BTC is very good at getting off topic and throwing pebbles at what other people say. But what does BTC say? It's very unclear.
The topic of this thread is the proper translation into English of the Armenian term "Medz Yeghern". I have heard much jingling of the cat's bell, but little sense. What does BTC propose to call the Armenian Genocide in English--if anything??? Let BTC please answer that question for all to see.

BTC's comment:
That's the standard "Armenian way" of working to a conclusion. Though, from experience, I'm surprised it took you all of 4 pages of posts to get there.
You started from "I can't tell you how really grateful I am to you". You are not much of an true Armenian if it takes you an enormous four pages to get from that to "I have heard much jingling of the cat's bell, but little sense. What does BTC propose to call the Armenian Genocide in English--if anything???" You really have to work on those paranoia and back-stabbing skills!

===============================================
Diranakir's response:
Yes, I was grateful to you for the Mouradian article and still am. But I was completely puzzled by your subsequent statement that you were "almost certain" that the term in question DOES NOT (your emphasis) mean Great Crime. The key paragraph in the Mouradian article clearly uses the word "crime" FOUR TIMES, and SPECIFICALLY translates Medz Yeghern as GREAT CRIME. My only conclusion was that you had filed the article away without reading it.

The other interesting thing about this is that you referred to the Armenian Weekly as a thing of the past, whereas it continues to exist with great vigor. That I can't account for either.

Your suggestion of Great Calamity for rendering the meaning of Medz Yeghern into English is not well taken or supported by the linguistic evidence. It is furthermore unfortunate that in taking this name that Armenians gave their genocide before Lemkin created the word and turning it into something it is not, the indirect effect is to downgrade the Armenian Genocide from a crime to an impersonal calamity, something that dovetails very nicely with the denialist stance.

Since Obama "borrowed" the term, Armenians should be very clear on what it means. This is not the time for beating around the bush.

================================================
from Post #18 by Bell

I am also almost certain that "metz yegern" DOES NOT mean "Great Crime".

Post #5 (from Armenian Weekly article by Mouradian)

Survivors of the Armenian Genocide used a number of terms to refer to
the destruction of their people in the Ottoman Empire. In the
editorials under study, the term most commonly and consistently used
from the 1920s to the present is Yeghern (Crime/Catastrophe), or
variants like Medz Yeghern (Great Crime) and Abrilian Yeghern (the
April Crime). Other terms include Hayasbanutyun (Armenocide), Medz
Voghperkutyun (Great Tragedy), Medz Vogchagez (Great Holocaust), Medz
Nahadagutyun (Great Martyrdom), Aghed (Catastrophe), Medz Nakhjir and
Medz Sbant (both, Great Massacre), Medz Potorig (Great Storm), Sev
Vojir (Black Crime) and, after 1948, Tseghasbanutyun (Genocide), or
variants like Haygagan Tseghasbanutyun and Hayots Tseghasbanutyun
(both, Armenian Genocide).

Last edited by Diranakir; 05-21-2010, 02:39 PM. Reason: to clarify who is commenting
Leave a comment:
bell-the-cat replied

05-21-2010, 08:19 AM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Originally posted by Diranakir View Post

BTC is very good at getting off topic and throwing pebbles at what other people say. But what does BTC say? It's very unclear.

The topic of this thread is the proper translation into English of the Armenian term "Medz Yeghern". I have heard much jingling of the cat's bell, but little sense. What does BTC propose to call the Armenian Genocide in English--if anything??? Let BTC please answer that question for all to see.

That's the standard "Armenian way" of working to a conclusion. Though, from experience, I'm surprised it took you all of 4 pages of posts to get there.

You started from "I can't tell you how really grateful I am to you". You are not much of an true Armenian if it takes you an enormous four pages to get from that to "I have heard much jingling of the cat's bell, but little sense. What does BTC propose to call the Armenian Genocide in English--if anything???" You really have to work on those paranoia and back-stabbing skills!
Leave a comment:
londontsi replied

05-21-2010, 06:40 AM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post

You egotistical online Armenians are beneath contempt.

That is exactly how I feelings towards you based on your postings.
Leave a comment:
bell-the-cat replied

05-21-2010, 04:44 AM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Originally posted by Diranakir View Post

BTC is very good at getting off topic and throwing pebbles at what other people say. But what does BTC say? It's very unclear.

The topic of this thread is the proper translation into English of the Armenian term "Medz Yeghern". I have heard much jingling of the cat's bell, but little sense. What does BTC propose to call the Armenian Genocide in English--if anything??? Let BTC please answer that question for all to see.

Originally posted by Diranakir View Post

From "For My Fatherland" by A. Aharonian, Chapter 10, "Tebi Medz Yegherni Vosdana" ("Heading For The Capital City of The Great Crime")

Knoum em Medz Yegherni kaghaka, ayn nzovadz hnotsa oor tarpnvetsin polor tzhokhayin tsavera, polor vojirnera, hai ashkhari ou zhoghovrti tem.

I am on my way to the capital city of the Great Crime, that accursed forge where all the hellish afflictions and crimes against the Armenian world and people were born.

You egotistical online Armenians are beneath contempt. You whine and wail about "your" genocide, on and on and on - and it's always drivel, dross swept from an empty cellar. If you really cared about the Armenian Genocide as a subject you would simply shut your ignorant mouth.
Leave a comment:
Diranakir replied

05-20-2010, 06:00 PM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

From "For My Fatherland" by A. Aharonian, Chapter 10, "Tebi Medz Yegherni Vosdana" ("Heading For The Capital City of The Great Crime")

Knoum em Medz Yegherni kaghaka, ayn nzovadz hnotsa oor tarpnvetsin polor tzhokhayin tsavera, polor vojirnera, hai ashkhari ou zhoghovrti tem.

I am on my way to the capital city of the Great Crime, that accursed forge where all the hellish afflictions and crimes against the Armenian world and people were born.
Leave a comment:
Diranakir replied

05-15-2010, 08:05 PM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

BTC's finest moment:

Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post

Genocide is not a "legal word".

"Great Calamity" will be a far more accurate translation of what those who first used the phrase meant by its use.

Right up Turkey's alley!

Last edited by Diranakir; 05-17-2010, 06:07 AM. Reason: change of one preposition
Leave a comment:
Diranakir replied

05-14-2010, 02:34 PM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

BTC is very good at getting off topic and throwing pebbles at what other people say. But what does BTC say? It's very unclear.

The topic of this thread is the proper translation into English of the Armenian term "Medz Yeghern". I have heard much jingling of the cat's bell, but little sense. What does BTC propose to call the Armenian Genocide in English--if anything??? Let BTC please answer that question for all to see.
Leave a comment:
bell-the-cat replied

05-14-2010, 12:22 PM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Originally posted by Jos View Post

Your concession of the point is payment enough.

But stop deluding yourself Kedi bey. Genocide recognition (at the behest of Armenians) comprises of three intertwined pillars: moral, political and legal. It is now virtually impossible to isolate individual components to achieve recognition in the form of genocide-light. Its all or nothing. So understand that when bungling around why recognition of word that has become so politically and legally loaded isn't as easily forthcoming.

Has Jos been advising the genocide deniers at the Tate Modern on how to weasel out of using the word genocide? "the wartime events of 1915 do not constitute a 'genocide' in the legal definition"

Page not found (404) | Tate

http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/arshilegorky/introduction.shtm

Last edited by bell-the-cat; 05-14-2010, 12:41 PM.
Leave a comment:
Diranakir replied

05-10-2010, 06:46 AM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

"Նայիրի" հայ լեզուի սրբագրիչ բառարան:

եղեռն (գոյական) Ոճիր, քրէական յանցանք * ջարդ:

yeghern (koyagan) vojir, kreyagan hantsank, chart

yeghern (noun) crime, criminal offense, massacre

Access Restricted

http://www.nayiri.com/search?l=hy_LB&query=եղեռն

Note: to see the definition at "Nayiri" you have to type the word in (in Armenian) and hit return.

Last edited by Diranakir; 05-10-2010, 07:20 AM. Reason: to add explanation
Leave a comment:
Jos replied

05-05-2010, 05:25 PM
Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post

Your payment in Turkish lira is in the mail. laugh:

Your concession of the point is payment enough.

But stop deluding yourself Kedi bey. Genocide recognition (at the behest of Armenians) comprises of three intertwined pillars: moral, political and legal. It is now virtually impossible to isolate individual components to achieve recognition in the form of genocide-light. Its all or nothing. So understand that when bungling around why recognition of word that has become so politically and legally loaded isn't as easily forthcoming.
Leave a comment: