Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
Its sad enough that we are chasing our own tails on this issue and arguing about the play on words is even worst. I dont want to disrespect fellow members here but i think we can better spend our time discussing things that actually do matter and might make a difference in real life. Justice for our people will have to come from our own actions not from the declairations of others.
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
Originally posted by Diranakir View Post
Genocide being a legal word DEFINES THE CRIME, therefore a base for JUDGMENT and followed up by THE PUNISHMENT and the wrong being righted.
The word "metz yegern" only describes the CRIME ( more like the event) nothing else. Almost an "abstract" word (legally) not requiring a follow-up.Leave a comment:
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
Yes, but because he used it all kinds of people have been invited to comment on it and supply their own definitions, including many who are definitely in the denialist camp. It should be very clear, whether the President ever says the g-word or not, that the Armenian term has moral culpability built into it. That much should be very clear to the world, no matter what. By using the Armenian term and inviting others to supply its meaning, he has given a shot in the arm to Turkey's stock line that, yes,real bad things happened in a time of war, there was suffering on both sides; there was calamity, catastrophe, tragedy, cataclysm and disaster but no genocide, all the stuff they always say. They can then say, "See, even the Armenians don't really call it genocide. They call it calamity." Let's be real. That's what it comes down to. No. One thing Armenians can be clear about is that THEIR name for the genocide means that there were criminals behind it. That should be clear, but I'm afraid some people still don't get it.Last edited by Diranakir; 05-07-2010, 08:33 AM. Reason: grammatical correction: Armenian's to ArmeniansLeave a comment:
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
The meaning of Medz Yeghern (whether it's Great Crime or Great Calamity) is not really important because it's not even an English word, hence using it is meaningless and makes no sense at all. Obama should respect his electoral pledge and recognize the Armenian genocide for what it is.Leave a comment:
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
The point is this: On April 24th President Obama was supposed to communicate with the American people and the world in PLAIN ENGLISH about the Armenian Genocide. Someone cleverly suggested a ploy for him to give the appearance he was not breaking his promise. The ploy was to use "Medz Yeghern", a term he doesn't know the true meaning of and which is unintelligible and unpronounceable to most Americans. It shouldn't have been that easy for him. The way it was, he could use it without giving an English translation in the statement because so many other sources conveniently translate it for him as "great calamity-catastrophe-disaster-tragedy, etc." all of which are morally neutral. My point is that "Medz Yeghern" is not at all a morally neutral term. It emphatically denotes human evil and responsibility. If one thinks that makes no difference, there's a real problem in that person's thinking. Yes, the President may never say "genocide", Armenians are only so important in the overall scheme of things, people don't care, etc., etc., etc., but the Armenian Genocide remains a vital historic issue and ARMENIANS SHOULD NEVER LET THEIR LANGUAGE BE USED AGAINST THEM CONCERNING IT. That's the point.Leave a comment:
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
*massages his temples*Originally posted by Diranakir View Post
You really think that has anything to do with how Obama refers to the genocide now that he's in office? When he was running for president, he CLEARLY said on SEVERAL occasions that what happened to the Armenians in 1915 was most definitely genocide, and that as president, he would recognize it. Of course, Armenians being the ever gullible idiots they are believed this guy, despite being lied to by Clinton and Bush Jr. in the past about the same thing. He knows that the proper way to address the massacres of 1915 is genocide, and he sure as hell didn't call it a "tragedy", or "disaster" because the Armenians are "unclear" as to what they call the event. If Armenians had called it genocide from the beginning, Obama STILL wouldn't have done so himself after taking office.
Why can't Armenians get it through their head that they are a tiny, completely insignificant group of people to the vast majority of the world, and their causes, plights and desires mean absolutely nothing to anyone outside of politicians trying to get votes? Do you guys not understand that keeping good ties with Turkey is FAR, FAR more important to the US than pleasing 1.5 million American-Armenians? Use your heads a little for once. No American president will EVER officially call this a genocide so long as this nation cherishes its relationship with Ankara. This is why I keep saying we are wasting an INCREDIBLE amount of time and resources on something that will never come to fruition.Last edited by Crimson Glow; 05-01-2010, 03:14 PM.Leave a comment:
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
The European Armenian Federation gets it right. If Armenians in the U.S. had been as clear, Obama wouldn't have been able to use the term as a weasel word.
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
Turkish Press Review on the meaning of "Medz Yeghern"
In case anyone thought that the battle was not on concerning the meaning of the term, read these articles carefully. Can Armenians afford to be passive?
"Calamity" and "Disaster"
1. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...ay&link=173578
"Tragedy"
2. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/co...s-yeghern.html
"Tragedy"
3. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/ne...-april-25.html
"Tragedy"
4. http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/ne...statement.html
"Genocide" [sic]
5. http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/10...ack-obama.htmlLeave a comment:
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
BTC: There's much to be said for the deeper recesses of your hard disk!
The important point once again: Armenians should not be a party to diluting the dignified and unambiguous language they have used to name their
inconceivable trauma. "Great Calamity" is a travesty and a foolish concession to the genociders.
From his 1920 book of lamentation called "For My Fatherland" by A. Aharonian, the following lines from the earliest pages [transliterated to the best of my ability]:
Paytz Hayastann! Asvadz im, Hayastann!. . . . Hayastánn: badmoutyan metch oór pndrel ayskan zarhoureli, ayskan egheragan mi badger, vor heravorabess
hishetsner hai ashkhari Yegherna."
"But Armenia! Oh my God, Armenia?! Where in history could you find such a hideous, such a tragic picture, one that could remotely give an idea of
the Crime it suffered?"Leave a comment:
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Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity
Thanks. Your opening post reminded me of that article, and luckily I still had the text of it buried deep in my computer's hard disk!Originally posted by Diranakir View Post
The big ommission in the article is an analysis of English-language non-Armenian uses of the word genocide used to describe the Armenian massacres. What Mouradian has done (making a search of article titles that have the words "Armenian Genocide") is not going to locate many articles or books that have used the words in their text. Because the phrases used by Armenians all use Armenian words, probably the usage of the phrase "Armenian Genocide" occured first amongst non-Armenian writers - but when was the first incident of its usage, and to what extent was it used in the days before Turkey embarked on its denialist campaign internationally, and what alternative phrases continued to be used to describe the Armenian genocide after the word "genocide" had been coined?Leave a comment:
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