Armenia for Armenians

[Mos]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

The divide has been quite longer than 100 years (it's actually 70 for USSR) my friend, there has been two (and later three to four) Armenias since the Byzantines and Persians decided to divide us in half centuries ago. To make the divide worse, one side lived under Ottoman yoke while the other lived in Russian yoke later on. Yet time and time again we have resisted this kind of separation and in 1918, 200 000 (if not more) "Western" Armenians settled in the DRA as refugees and "integrated" well, especially in political life (ex: General Andranik, Aram Manukyan etc.) Those refugees decendents can still be found in Armenian political life, such as former PM Andranik Margaryan whose family were refugees from Sasoun during the AG. Even new generations such as Raffi Hovhanissian, who served as Armenia's first FM, can be found in Armenia.

No doubt about it you need an understanding of the country in order to be part of its system, it's the rule for all countries. I doubt anyone will serve in a Senate in the scenario where they have been to Armenia once or twice and decide to run lol. You'll need dual citizenship probably too, anyway. Can't speak for everyone but i'm pretty sure the majority want the old Soviet culture to disappear and it is fading away with the rise of a new generation. Like I said, the Diaspora is one way to speed this slow process up. Anyway, all the talk about making this and that decision is irrelevant, I already pointed out that an upper house has a lot of restrictions and does not have much say over the much more powerful lower house.

To get rid of this view of "outsider" we must stop cultivating this talk about differences and find common ground and I can assure you that we are much more similar than we think. Whether Western Armenians call it Kebab or Eastern Armenians call it Khorovats, it's still the same great meat

You must remember that the world is becoming more global, and with that ethnic groups are also becoming much more unified in their identity, rather than being heavily divided in regionalism. The divide between Western and Eastern Armenians is quite interesting I must say however, and in my opinion some of the effects that Soviet culture has had on Armenian identity, is not really changeable. There are just things that are very hard to change, and have truly changed Armenian society altogether.

I remember one time I was at a Armenian church in America, and after the patarag, in the hall way there were two groups of Armenians talking, one side it was us, talking in eastern armenian, mixing russian words, with some people who were also hayastanci, and on the other side, western armenians, mostly taking in english and mixing a few armenian words here and there. The contrast there was just so vivid, and that's not the first time I've seen that sort of division in social situations. Many hayastanics have easier time spending time with Russians, and other post-soviet people than Western armenians, in general there is just more in common with the post soviet people and the references are more understandable, and I say this from experience both personal and observed.

So this divide is real, and it's not as simple as a few different words, it's a whole different mentality. We have the same fundamental armenian culture, but on top of it we have so much other influences that it has made that armenian layer blurry. Before approaching the issue of involving diasporans in armenia's affairs, we have to a deal with this undeniable divide.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Minister Outlines Plans to Include Diaspora Armenians in Legislature


BURBANK—President Serzh Sarkisian wants to propose a constitutional amendment, which would create two parliamentary houses, one of which will allow Diaspora Armenians to be part of the legislature, announced Diaspora Minister Hranoush Hakopyan during a meeting with community members Sunday at Arbat Gloden Palace organized by the Consulate General of Armenia to Los Angeles.

Hakopyan’s explanation that the proposed upper house of the legislature would allow Diaspora Armenians to serve as representatives was met with applause and excitement by the audience.

“In assessing the issue, the president of Armenia has come to the conclusion, and is making suggestions, that yes, certain changes within the governing structure of Armenia are needed to allow Diaspora Armenians to be part of Armenia’s government,” explained Hakopyan.

The minister explained that “it is not a coincidence that we want to make changes to Armenia’s constitution” to create two house of the parliament, with the upper house—the Senate—including representatives from the Diaspora.

“Today, I witnessed the excitement by our California-Armenian community about the creation of the Senate,” said Hakopyan.

“The first step by the president was the creation of the Diaspora Ministry, through which substantive policies for Armenia-Diaspora relations were put forth. The second was the establishment of the dual-citizenship institution, and clearly we are taking the third step by creating the upper house through which the Diaspora Armenian will have a voice in the governing of the country and in creating policy,” explained Hakopyan.

In response to Hakopyan’s statements, Armenia’s presidential spokesman Armen Arzoumanyan told Panoram news agency that during the spring 2010 meeting of the Hayastan Armenia Fund board meeting discussions were had on expanding Diaspora-Armenia cooperation and board members were tasked to present recommendations in a year’s time.

Arzoumanyan said that amending the constitution was a very responsible step and it requires extensive discussion and expert input before implementation.

During the reception Sunday evening, organized by the Consulate General of Armenia to Los Angeles, Hakopyan awarded a medal to long-time community activist and benefactor Vahe Karapetyan.

The minister also briefed the gathering about the upcoming activities of the ministry, the realization of which, she said, required participation by the California Armenian community.

http://asbarez.com/92695/minister-outlines-plans-to-include-diaspora-armenians-in-legislature/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Asbarez+%28Asbarez+News%29&utm_content=Twitter

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Armenian Diaspora has large and extensive experience and knowledge in world politics, UN, and the codes of conduct in this political world. Since its independence Armenia has not cashed in on this vast advantage or made any attempts to unite the Armenians to any capacity. Most of the Armenian Government deligates who travel to Europe and US representing Armenia are, sorry to say, out to lunch and embarassing in their technics and knowledge base.

Armenian Diasporan intellectuals are very well aware what challenges we face in world community and how we are being washed away by our enemies systematically without representation or a central leadership (not to mention our envy and almost hate for each other in different communities) because of our disunity and lack of proper leadership (other than religious creed).

We have to be able as a Nation to contribute to the political process and know how to play the game. We are an embarasment when it comes to that and this is why we will always be pushed aside.
This is where that political clout and critical mass therory comes. We must learn from our intellectuals, they have the answers, we need the will and to get excited.

We all claim to be patriots.....where is that trigger?

[Federate]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

100 years of Soviet rule, like it or not, has created a cultural divide between Western and Eastern Armenians. However, in order to properly govern a post-Soviet country, one must also understand that Soviet culture which was such a big part of society for 100 years. Also, we can't expect diasporans who have little connection to Armenia to make the best decisions for the country, so any diasporan that does contribute must have a history of connections to the country. You can't just pop into Armenia as your first visit, and say that you are going to be making some changes. You must have lived in Armenia for a while, you must have interacted with the people of Armenia, in order to have a good picture of the society, because the Armenians of Armenia are rather different than the Western Armenians living in diaspora, very different actually.

Unfortunately those very Western Armenians that they want to incorporated are still viewed as outsiders in Armenia, while eastern armenians who go and live like the westerners in foreign countries are received much better.

In all, it's a good idea to bring diaspora close to Armenia, but why should that entail making government decisions for Armenia?

The divide has been quite longer than 100 years (it's actually 70 for USSR) my friend, there has been two (and later three to four) Armenias since the Byzantines and Persians decided to divide us in half centuries ago. To make the divide worse, one side lived under Ottoman yoke while the other lived in Russian yoke later on. Yet time and time again we have resisted this kind of separation and in 1918, 200 000 (if not more) "Western" Armenians settled in the DRA as refugees and "integrated" well, especially in political life (ex: General Andranik, Aram Manukyan etc.) Those refugees decendents can still be found in Armenian political life, such as former PM Andranik Margaryan whose family were refugees from Sasoun during the AG. Even new generations such as Raffi Hovhanissian, who served as Armenia's first FM, can be found in Armenia.

No doubt about it you need an understanding of the country in order to be part of its system, it's the rule for all countries. I doubt anyone will serve in a Senate in the scenario where they have been to Armenia once or twice and decide to run lol. You'll need dual citizenship probably too, anyway. Can't speak for everyone but i'm pretty sure the majority want the old Soviet culture to disappear and it is fading away with the rise of a new generation. Like I said, the Diaspora is one way to speed this slow process up. Anyway, all the talk about making this and that decision is irrelevant, I already pointed out that an upper house has a lot of restrictions and does not have much say over the much more powerful lower house.

To get rid of this view of "outsider" we must stop cultivating this talk about differences and find common ground and I can assure you that we are much more similar than we think. Whether Western Armenians call it Kebab or Eastern Armenians call it Khorovats, it's still the same great meat

[Mos]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

We have a lot to learn from J3ws... The above statement would be considered scandalous if instead of "Eastern" and "Western" Armenian we replaced it with "Mizrahi" or "Sephardic" and "Ashkenazi" J3w. The point is to get rid of the Soviet mindset and "culture", not to integrate to it. Injection of Diaspora-Armenians will speed up this process along with the recent generation of youth in Armenia that is already standing up against the old corrupt practises.

But regardless, even if the upper chamber is established and Diasporans are allowed in, they would most probably require at least dual citizenship. And the upper chamber is hardly something that makes many decisions in a country anyway, it has limited powers. In many countries, Senators are appointed (as opposed to elected) as well so there's a grand possibility that the President or PM would be calling the shots on who gets a job in it and you can bet they'll be careful on who they choose.

100 years of Soviet rule, like it or not, has created a cultural divide between Western and Eastern Armenians. However, in order to properly govern a post-Soviet country, one must also understand that Soviet culture which was such a big part of society for 100 years. Also, we can't expect diasporans who have little connection to Armenia to make the best decisions for the country, so any diasporan that does contribute must have a history of connections to the country. You can't just pop into Armenia as your first visit, and say that you are going to be making some changes. You must have lived in Armenia for a while, you must have interacted with the people of Armenia, in order to have a good picture of the society, because the Armenians of Armenia are rather different than the Western Armenians living in diaspora, very different actually.

Unfortunately those very Western Armenians that they want to incorporated are still viewed as outsiders in Armenia, while eastern armenians who go and live like the westerners in foreign countries are received much better.

In all, it's a good idea to bring diaspora close to Armenia, but why should that entail making government decisions for Armenia?

[Federate]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

I don't know how I feel about this. Should non citizens of Armenia be making decisions for the Republic? I don't think so. Armenians of Armenia should be making decisions for Armenia, diasporans (esp western armenians) should be more involved in more humanitarian organisations for armenia, genocide recognition, and cultural spheres. The connection of western armenians to the soviet mindset, culture, is rather weak and making political decisions for armenia often relies on the knowledge and having of this soviet past/upbringing.

We have a lot to learn from J3ws... The above statement would be considered scandalous if instead of "Eastern" and "Western" Armenian we replaced it with "Mizrahi" or "Sephardic" and "Ashkenazi" J3w. The point is to get rid of the Soviet mindset and "culture", not to integrate to it. Injection of Diaspora-Armenians will speed up this process along with the recent generation of youth in Armenia that is already standing up against the old corrupt practises.

But regardless, even if the upper chamber is established and Diasporans are allowed in, they would most probably require at least dual citizenship. And the upper chamber is hardly something that makes many decisions in a country anyway, it has limited powers. In many countries, Senators are appointed (as opposed to elected) as well so there's a grand possibility that the President or PM would be calling the shots on who gets a job in it and you can bet they'll be careful on who they choose.

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I think this is a master stoke.

It all depends the type of role it will have.

I hope it will have limited blocking power, be more an advisory, and provide the vision for the future.

Its much better getting advice from a ( wiser and representative ) Upper House than foreign ministries of Great Powers who only pursue their own interest.
The protocol fiasco is a case in point.

Diaspora must be kept as close to the Hayrenilk as possible and never allow any rift to develop between them.

Armenia is "home" to all Armenians.

Indeed.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

.
.
I think this is a master stoke.

It all depends the type of role it will have.

I hope it will have limited blocking power, be more an advisory, and provide the vision for the future.

Its much better getting advice from a ( wiser and representative ) Upper House than foreign ministries of Great Powers who only pursue their own interest.
The protocol fiasco is a case in point.

Diaspora must be kept as close to the Hayrenilk as possible and never allow any rift to develop between them.

Armenia is "home" to all Armenians.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Armenia for ALL Armenians.
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Armenia may have two-chamber parliament

Armenian Diaspora Minister Hranush Hakobyan during a meeting with Diaspora Armenians in California talked about a sensational idea. She conveyed Armenian President’s intention to establish two-chamber parliament by changing the Republic of Armenia Constitution, giving a possibility to Diaspora Armenians to be members of the parliament’s upper chamber and thus involving world-spread Armenians in our country’s state government.

The Minister of Diaspora is set to meet with heads of all Armenian organizations in California.

http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2011/01/...an-parliament/

I don't know how I feel about this. Should non citizens of Armenia be making decisions for the Republic? I don't think so. Armenians of Armenia should be making decisions for Armenia, diasporans (esp western armenians) should be more involved in more humanitarian organisations for armenia, genocide recognition, and cultural spheres. The connection of western armenians to the soviet mindset, culture, is rather weak and making political decisions for armenia often relies on the knowledge and having of this soviet past/upbringing.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Armenian parliament to have two chambers?

"The president's first step in that direction was the decision to create a diaspora ministry, which later elaborated a serious policy to reinforce the diaspora communities' ties with their homeland. The second step was the introduction of the dual citizenship system. And the initiative to create an upper house in parliament is actually our third step which will enable the diaspora to have its say in our state government system and policy making procedures," she added.

http://tert.am/en/news/2011/01/31/parliament/?sw

[Federate]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Would this mean that diaspora Armenians would be involved in Armenia's foreign policy? That's the only way this could make sense.

I'm not sure what this means but an upper chamber (aka a Senate) is usually less powerful than the lower chamber and it is usually dominated by rich old men who serve terms for life or until their own resignation.