Current Condition of Armenia

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You can't expect Armenians in Diaspora to just give that up (AG recognition).....as useless as it may be it is one angle that needs to be continued, maybe use a different strategy not so much to get the recognition but to use it (or withdraw it) as an advantage in other ways (in congress, not public demonstrations). I have already told you how I feel about it, even though I attend the demonstrations every year.

Question: Why are not the Russian Armenian lobby as hard as US Armenians (like how they stop US on weapon sells to Azerbaijan to most degree)?

Got to run (work calls), hook back up later

Most of the Armenian Lobby in US is composed of Western Armenians who don't have a real connection to modern day Armenia, thus the Genocide issue for them becomes full priority as most are descendants of Genocide survivors anyway.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Great then! My issue is that more Armenians do not realize how important we are to Russia, and when they do, even less realize how we can play it to our advantage. Instead of spending countless man hours and capital on fruitless genocide recognition campaign in corrupt Western states, we ought to focus that same amount of energy (financial and human) toward influencing Russian policy-makers in favor of Armenia. Also investing in Armenia. Yet, we are not.

You can't expect Armenians in Diaspora to just give that up (AG recognition).....as useless as it may be it is one angle that needs to be continued, maybe use a different strategy not so much to get the recognition but to use it (or withdraw it) as an advantage in other ways (in congress, not public demonstrations). I have already told you how I feel about it, even though I attend the demonstrations every year.

Question: Why are not the Russian Armenian lobby as hard as US Armenians (like how they stop US on weapon sells to Azerbaijan to most degree)?

Got to run (work calls), hook back up later

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Unfortunately, lobbying in Russia is on a different level than lobbying in the West.

At least we agree on one thing: Georgia is disposable in the grand scheme of things. Tblilisi is an Armenian city anyway.

If you mean in Russia to lobby one has to have money then I'd say it is the same as in the States. There's a revolving door between high level federal jobs and corporate america. Anyway, we have enough well connected Russian-Armenians to help out, we just don't have unity of vision.

We can go further and add that much of Georgian culture owes its existence to Armenians, from their alphabet to conversion to Christianity, to their greatest royal family, an offshoot of our Bagratouni family.

[davidoga]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

I agree that the oligarchs are detrimental in the long run. They need to be managed, which is the direction I think Sargsyan is going in. This is not easy though, he has some dirty laundry which they could hurt him if he pushes too much. So he is in a bind. However, I hope you realize that the oligarchs will never go away, but hopefully they will be more in tune with national needs instead of selfish ones, and hopefully the government will be able to rein them in. I was mentioning geography earlier. If Armenia can break through to the Black Sea, or have a common border with Russia, our economic fortunes would change almost overnight. And with the time, resources, and diaspora in Russia, we ought to convince the Kremlin to help us with this endeavor should a war erupt against Azerbaijan, or the West attacks Iran.

Unfortunately, lobbying in Russia is on a different level than lobbying in the West.

At least we agree on one thing: Georgia is disposable in the grand scheme of things. Tblilisi is an Armenian city anyway.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

I am acknowledging that revolution is wrong in the sense of French Revolution, Bolshevik takeover etc.

I am still of the opinion that HHP and oligarchs are detrimental for Armenia.

I agree that the oligarchs are detrimental in the long run. They need to be managed, which is the direction I think Sargsyan is going in. This is not easy though, he has some dirty laundry which they could hurt him if he pushes too much. So he is in a bind. However, I hope you realize that the oligarchs will never go away, but hopefully they will be more in tune with national needs instead of selfish ones, and hopefully the government will be able to rein them in. I was mentioning geography earlier. If Armenia can break through to the Black Sea, or have a common border with Russia, our economic fortunes would change almost overnight. And with the time, resources, and diaspora in Russia, we ought to convince the Kremlin to help us with this endeavor should a war erupt against Azerbaijan, or the West attacks Iran.

[davidoga]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Are you truly admitting that revolution is indeed wrong or just being fictitious?

I am acknowledging that revolution is wrong in the sense of French Revolution, Bolshevik takeover etc.

I am still of the opinion that HHP and oligarchs are detrimental for Armenia.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Are you truly admitting that revolution is indeed wrong or just being fictitious?

[davidoga]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Please tell us, how do you know that the leadership which would replace Sargsyan would be more nationalistic? And if you can not answer the questions I raised yet still wish to see a revolution, why are you so surprised that I and others here are hostile to you?



Nope. I am a student of history and know it well enough to see trends, and I respect geography and human nature; their limits and nuances. Patriots do not call for a revolution when their enemy are at the gates.



Trust me I do. I also understand political economy. Do you know what that is?



You could be in Finland and say the same bull and I would still point it out. You do not live in Armenia yet are calling for a revolution, one which I have pointed out would be fraught with problematic issues, issues that you admit you do not have answers to properly address. So no, I am not bashing on you due to where you live, just pointing out that you have no right to call for a revolution, especially when you are not in said country.

FINE. Revolution is the wrong word. Call if whatever you want.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We are on the same page then.....the bold part is our major playing card and I hope Armenian leadership uses it to its full advantage because in all reality they need us almost as much as we need them. (for them it would be a disaster, for us our survival).

btw, I rather get backstabbed by Armenians then others....as strange as that may sound.

Great then! My issue is that more Armenians do not realize how important we are to Russia, and when they do, even less realize how we can play it to our advantage. Instead of spending countless man hours and capital on fruitless genocide recognition campaign in corrupt Western states, we ought to focus that same amount of energy (financial and human) toward influencing Russian policy-makers in favor of Armenia. Also investing in Armenia. Yet, we are not.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

I have already ascertained that a revolution should not a be a violent one. Not surprised that you didn't catch that though. You probably only pay attention to about 10% of what I'm saying and then infer the rest.

I can't answer all those questions. I don't have any details planned out. I do know that a leader would be more nationalistic and interested in rebulding Greater Armenia than the current one. Now before you make a remark about how I do not understand politics and that making territorial claims is a big deal that could further isolate Armenia, understand that I do not intend to be said leader. The leader will know how to make such claims properly. And he will also establish rule of law.

Please tell us, how do you know that the leadership which would replace Sargsyan would be more nationalistic? And if you can not answer the questions I raised yet still wish to see a revolution, why are you so surprised that I and others here are hostile to you?

On the contrary, you are being negative towards Armenia. You are disregarding the fact that an overwhelming majority of Armenia's residents are unhappy with their lives. You are like Kim Jong Il, pretending that his country is a paradise. You are confusing patriotism with disillusionism. Think of my criticism as the relationship between a coach and his team. The team my win the national championship, but does that mean that the coach will relax and stop doling out criticism? No. (Note: I don't mean to assert any authority or seniority over Armenia with this analogy.)

Nope. I am a student of history and know it well enough to see trends, and I respect geography and human nature; their limits and nuances. Patriots do not call for a revolution when their enemy are at the gates.

You clearly understand nothing of economics. Yes, when 40% of the market is controlled by 4 companies, you have an oligarchy. In that industry. This is different than Armenia, where the oligarchy controls all of Armenia's economy.

Trust me I do. I also understand political economy. Do you know what that is?

And don't try to criticize me because of my location. Judging by your English, you have also spent a great time in America (or UK).

You could be in Finland and say the same bull and I would still point it out. You do not live in Armenia yet are calling for a revolution, one which I have pointed out would be fraught with problematic issues, issues that you admit you do not have answers to properly address. So no, I am not bashing on you due to where you live, just pointing out that you have no right to call for a revolution, especially when you are not in said country.