Current Condition of Armenia

[Eddo211]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Internet is a very potent tool......I would also suggest for young Armenians to persue a career in political science and international law.

[levon]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

So should we sit on our hands, and ignore the problems that are plaguing our country? Ignore the problems that are contributing to heavy migration out of the country and making thousands of people's lives miserable? I'm talking about basics.

The problems you presented are completely your assessment. You have a naive understanding of what needs to happen, and as such your entire post looks like whining.

Ensuring people have enough money to put food on the table, or have access to warm water and electricity.

Giving money to people not only does not improve the status quo, but also makes them dependent on that money. People need JOBS, not money.

Or don't have send their daughters to other countries to work as prostitutes in order to get by.

That is complete bs. Prove that what you describe is a problem (problem means a large number of people engage in it, not isolated cases).

Or people can go to the army without fear they will be killed by their superiors or fellow soldiers.

Again, that is complete bs. Prove it beyond stating isolated examples. I have friends( and a cousin) you have finished army service and none of them feel what you describe. Only those who want to evade army service cry "b!tch" and claim the army is too dangerous.


Now, you have posted two completely unsubstantiated statements and posed them as facts. Prove your points, or quit posting bs.

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

The problems you presented are completely your assessment. You have a naive understanding of what needs to happen, and as such your entire post looks like whining.

No it not my assessment solely, it's the assessment of my friends and family who are experiencing first hand these conditions, and my talking with people when I'm there for few months.

Giving money to people not only does not improve the status quo, but also makes them dependent on that money. People need JOBS, not money.

Have I said we should only give money? Absolutely not, I've mentioned the dependency on money from abroad, and have mentioned how important it is to get the job sector healthy.

That is complete bs. Prove that what you describe is a problem (problem means a large number of people engage in it, not isolated cases).

For a start, read this recent wikileaks article that came out (scroll down for English).
http://rusrep.ru/article/2011/02/07/trafficking

this is a well known fact (unfortunately) I'm surprised you would think it's "bs"

Again, that is complete bs. Prove it beyond stating isolated examples. I have friends( and a cousin) you have finished army service and none of them feel what you describe. Only those who want to evade army service cry "b!tch" and claim the army is too dangerous.

It's not BS. Just read the news, and you often here about the suspicious deaths of soldiers. And I've never met anyone that was happy to go to the army.

Now, you have posted two completely unsubstantiated statements and posed them as facts. Prove your points, or quit posting bs.

It's not BS, everything I've said is supported, especially by testimony of people experiencing that first hand, and me interacting with my friends and family. And it's not whining, it's a honest testimony about the conditions of our country that should be addressed. I want the best for my country, for armenia to live to its potential, for my people to be able to live comfortably in their own country, and most importantly our country not be plagued by migration out and people thinking entirely about how to flee the country.

[gegev]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

....

It's not BS. Just read the news, and you often here about the suspicious deaths of soldiers. And I've never met anyone that was happy to go to the army.

I've attended more than 10 farewell parties of the new army conscripts, last year, in my neighborhood. They all looked like wedding ceremonies and everybody was glad and happy. You need to see it in Armenia ... online to get convinced.

[levon]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

No it not my assessment solely, it's the assessment of my friends and family who are experiencing first hand these conditions, and my talking with people when I'm there for few months.

People often complain more than their situation requires. Talking to a few people is not an assessment.

Have I said we should only give money? Absolutely not, I've mentioned the dependency on money from abroad, and have mentioned how important it is to get the job sector healthy.

Sure you did, here is the quote

I'm talking about basics. Ensuring people have enough money to put food on the table, or have access to warm water and electricity.

For a start, read this recent wikileaks article that came out (scroll down for English).
http://rusrep.ru/article/2011/02/07/trafficking

That article is one part propaganda and one part exaggeration. The west has an unreasonable obsession with "women's rights" and part of their "spread of democracy" is obsessive advocacy of feminist policy. This is mainly done by taking a small issue, claiming it's a major problem, then pressuring the target government to pass feminist inspired laws.
Furthermore, you claimed Or don't have send their daughters to other countries to work as prostitutes in order to get by, whereas the article simple alludes to the fact that some trafficking exists, and makes no assessment as to whether the victims knew what they were getting themselves into.

It's not BS. Just read the news, and you often here about the suspicious deaths of soldiers. And I've never met anyone that was happy to go to the army.

It is BS. The news present isolated cases, not proof. Isolated cases always happen. Furthermore, no one is happy to serve in the army unless they willingly enlist. Again, you failed to prove your point.

It's not BS, everything I've said is supported, especially by testimony of people experiencing that first hand, and me interacting with my friends and family.

Testimony from a few people is not proof. I don't know where you've gotten your education, but anywhere outside of "social studies (wimmin's studies)" testimony from a few people does not constitute proof.

And it's not whining, it's a honest testimony about the conditions of our country that should be addressed. I want the best for my country, for armenia to live to its potential, for my people to be able to live comfortably in their own country, and most importantly our country not be plagued by migration out and people thinking entirely about how to flee the country.

It's whining, and the testimony is that of people who'd rather whine than do anything of value. The world is full of people like that. There are many people in the west that do nothing but whine. People love to whine. It puts them in a state of victimhood and puts blame for their failure on something they cannot control. Thus, they needn't do anything because nothing they do will change anything.
The people who want to run away from armenia, usually end up in a similarly miserable economic situation in the country they run away to.

[Tali]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Not bad ideas, however, I think there is little the members of this forum can do at this point in time.

You do realize that Eastern Armenian is the dialect spoken in Armenia?

I would agree. This is why i offered brainstorming. Implementation is an entirely different thing. At least we can get ideas going, see what's practical and what's not. and then move on to the next phase

Yes, I figured i could find a translator between western and eastern. if all else fails, a translator for english and eastern.

Internet is a very potent tool......I would also suggest for young Armenians to persue a career in political science and international law.

world history is another important one. once they notice patterns, they can learn what techniques other countries used to bring them out of this kind of state of chaos.

[Tali]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Levon, Mos. It's understandable for both of you to feel so passionately the way you do. It's the same thing with any story. There are two sides. Mos sees it one way. Levon sees it another. Why? Because the people they are affiliated with are experiencing separate things.

Armenia is right now in the building stages. Now, regardless Levon and Mos of how disparate that situation may be, there is no argument stipulating that Armenia is flourishing.

So, with this in mind, I ask you: are you going to continue bickering to each other? or are you going to be constructive to the discussion? Mos mentioned making sure they have enough money for resources. Two things are evidenced: money and resources. Now how? Levon mentioned jobs. Ok, how? I mentioned the guild idea. What else can you two think of? Also, money is a necessity in reconstruction. it buys things. hence it's point of existence. nothing is truly free in this world. that money can be used to assist a particular family, or it can be used like loans.

again, i ask, what are you guys' ideas/suggestions?

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

People often complain more than their situation requires. Talking to a few people is not an assessment.

Oh right, everybody exaggerates, that right there is true BS. And secondly it's not a few people, but a wide range of people.

Sure you did, here is the quote

that's not throwing money at the problem, that's just ensuring people have access to these important resources, which everyone should.

That article is one part propaganda and one part exaggeration. The west has an unreasonable obsession with "women's rights" and part of their "spread of democracy" is obsessive advocacy of feminist policy. This is mainly done by taking a small issue, claiming it's a major problem, then pressuring the target government to pass feminist inspired laws.
Furthermore, you claimed Or don't have send their daughters to other countries to work as prostitutes in order to get by, whereas the article simple alludes to the fact that some trafficking exists, and makes no assessment as to whether the victims knew what they were getting themselves into.

Well if you read it more closely, you would see that many times daughters are sent knowingly to such prostitution sites. And stop bringing in "spread of democracy" into this, it has nothing to do with this. It pays well and often it's the quickest way to have enough money for the family. Second, stop making up things, prove that it's propaganda, and it's not true. I can show you many other articles that allude to this unfortunate trafficking which is a fact.

It is BS. The news present isolated cases, not proof. Isolated cases always happen. Furthermore, no one is happy to serve in the army unless they willingly enlist. Again, you failed to prove your point.

No, it happens on a consistent basis, again read the news sometimes, why else you think government has pledged tougher stance on this?

Testimony from a few people is not proof. I don't know where you've gotten your education, but anywhere outside of "social studies (wimmin's studies)" testimony from a few people does not constitute proof.

You really should read more carefully, and please don't delve into insulting my intelligence here, very childish. My views are from experiences I've heard about many people, my first hand experiences in Armenia with people, the news that I read about some of those conditions. What are you saying? That Armenia is in great shape, that everything is going well, and that nothing can be improved?

It's whining, and the testimony is that of people who'd rather whine than do anything of value. The world is full of people like that. There many people in the west that do nothing but whine. People love to whine. It puts them in a state of victimhood and puts blame for their failure on something they cannot control. Thus, they needn't do anything because nothing day do will change anything.
The people who want to run away from armenia, usually end up in a similarly miserable economic situation in the country they run away to.

You really should watch it who you are talking about here. My uncle owns his own businesses in yerevan, he started out from nothing (celling cigarettes on the street), and over the years he has become rather successful with his stores, but know the government comes and indiscriminately closes his shops, wants over the top taxes and bribes from him, and have greatly hampered his progress. What should he do stay silent about this? No he tells about this, but despite this he goes on with his business and tries his best to work around it.

People will complain when they are in a dire situation, they have a right to. What should they just keep the mouths shut, and pretend everything is okay? Your point is truly laughable. And oh, do people not in the west, not complain when they are in dire situation? Just stop bring West vs. East into this, it has nothing to do with what I am talking about, and really watch what you are saying as it's apparent you know very little about armenia.

[levon]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Levon, Mos. It's understandable for both of you to feel so passionately the way you do. It's the same thing with any story. There are two sides. Mos sees it one way. Levon sees it another. Why? Because the people they are affiliated with are experiencing separate things.

Yes, there are two sides, people who whine and do nothing, and people who strive to do things. It's not a way of looking at things, but the actual situation.

Armenia is right now in the building stages. Now, regardless Levon and Mos of how disparate that situation may be, there is no argument stipulating that Armenia is flourishing.

Did you even read my post, because I don't think you understood what I wrote?

So, with this in mind, I ask you: are you going to continue bickering to each other? or are you going to be constructive to the discussion? Mos mentioned making sure they have enough money for resources. Two things are evidenced: money and resources. Now how? Levon mentioned jobs. Ok, how?

Read again, I said giving money doesn't help the situation, it's better to give jobs than money.

I mentioned the guild idea. What else can you two think of? Also, money is a necessity in reconstruction. it buys things. hence it's point of existence. nothing is truly free in this world. that money can be used to assist a particular family, or it can be used like loans.
again, i ask, what are you guys' ideas/suggestions?

I'm not sure what it is you want to discuss. Here is my suggestion. Work your a$$ off for the next 20 years, become a CEO or a senior executive an a big company, then persuade them to open offices in Armenia. Without power discussion is mental masturbation, as it leads no further than the discussion.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Yes, I figured i could find a translator between western and eastern. if all else fails, a translator for english and eastern.

If you have the chance, you should learn the Eastern dialect instead. It will be more useful for you trip, and if you ever decide to move to Armenia. Regardless, if you have decent or good command of western, you'll get by in Armenia much better than if you didn't know any dialect of Armenian. The thing that trips up Western dialect speakers the most is the use of Russian words. But if you are in Armenia long enough you will surely pick up on that jargon.