Current Condition of Armenia

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Yes Austria is openly anti-Turkish, and Austria kicked Turkey's a*s during their attempt to invade Vienna few hundred years ago. In terms of the right-wing party, I'm hesitant to throw my support for them as they have said some controversial things, namely, Nazi sympathising, anti-Semitic remarks, and Islamaphobic remarks.

They are not nearly anti-turkish enough, but the average person is more so than the Germans, who will soon catch up with the Austrians in that respect.

And why do you take issue with the so called 'controversial things'?

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Judaism is a religion. J3ws are J3ws. The term J3w is usually referred to traitors, sellouts or cheapskates. Although the Pope just wrote a book claiming they had nothing to do with Jesus' death so it looks like the Papality is going down with Berlusconi

What you have against J3ws? I understand problems with Israel and the far-right J3ws, but I personally have no problem with J3ws and have known many actually, and have never had any problems. One thing I like about them is their emphasis on education, that is why in countries where there are many of them (e.g. USA) they have gained a lot of power leaving the non j3w whites behind.

They are not nearly anti-turkish enough, but the average person is more so than the Germans, who will soon catch up with the Austrians in that respect.

And why do you take issue with the so called 'controversial things'?

Well I take issue because first off I don't sympathise with the Nazis nor am I anti-Semitic or an Islamaphobe.

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Having said this, Serge's intentions were not to abandon the AG but he was using a path he perceives as best to gain recognition, it was still included in Armenia's foreign policy. LTP threw it out completely, even fired Raffi Hovhanisyan from his FM job for uttering "AG" in Turkey.

But wouldn't creating such a commission hamper any country in recognising, as they would say "well it still being debated so we should not say anything". Armenian Genocide as actually had a commission, with historians and scholars from different places (including Israel) that came together and affirmed the fact of the Genocide and wrote a letter to Erdogan telling him to recognise it. In my opinion, since Armenia has more to gain from this, Turkey wanted a concession from Armenia, and this commission was that concession - of course they got greedy and wanted Karabakh too, but fortunately nothing happened.

The thing about J3ws is that it's hard to define a J3w because everyone has different definitions, you must answer the question "who/what is a J3w". A tangent to this question is "Is being a J3w an ethnicity or a religion? I don't agree that a great majority of Muslims would support Azerbaijan over Armenia. Maybe if you count countries like Indonesia (no exposure to Armenians) and Pakistan, you might be correct. But Arabs have more history with Armenians than Azeris and Arabs are majority Sunni too. We're respected in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine, UAE etc. The OIC really has no influence, it's just Muslims pretending they are all fine with each other and offering non-binding lip service to each other while they all hate each other in reality. When Az puts UN resolutions at vote, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Iran all abstain. There's no record of the OIC helping Azeris during the war, only Afghans and Chechens helped. I also agree about your opinion on Iran but that applies to every single country. Chka cultural yev historical solidarity realpolitikum, miayn ka shah.

Anyway, coming back to LTP's relations with J3ws, we can't really prove it unless he comes out himself or is exposed by someone else. But we must remain cautious. I also agree with KarotheGreat's assessment that LTP would do it regardless of infiltration or not.

Well I would argue in some country's cases there is cultural solidarity. For example Turkey-Azerbaijan, but most of the cases it's just realpolitik - that's why I get mad when people start calling contemporary allies/friends as "brothers". Brothers can just as easily turn into enemies.

Several Arab countries have had Armenian minority, especially Lebanon, but I don't really know if that would be a basis for supporting Armenia over Azerbaijan. From my experience most Arabs don't know much about Armenia, except Arabs from Lebanon, naturally.

OIC supported Azerbaijan throughout the war, and Azeris got support from rich Arab countries as well, not to mention Afghan fighters.

Here's an excerpt of the statement condemning Armenia by OIC

RESOLUTION NO. 7/34-P
ON
THE AGGRESSION OF THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA
AGAINST THE REPUBLIC OF AZERBAIJAN
The Thirty-Fourth Session of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers (Session of Peace,
Progress and Harmony), held in Islamabad, Islamic Republic of Pakistan from 28-30 Rabi Al-Thani 1428 A.H (15-17
May 2007);
Proceeding from the principles and objectives of the Charter of the Organization of the Islamic Conference;
Gravely concerned over the aggression by the Republic of Armenia against the Republic of Azerbaijan
which has resulted in the occupation of about 20 percent of the territories of Azerbaijan;
Expressing its profound concern over continued occupation of significant part of the territories of Azerbaijan
and illegal transfer of settlers of the Armenian nationality to those territories;
Deeply distressed over the plight of more than one million Azerbaijani displaced persons and refugees
resulting from the Armenian aggression and over magnitude and severity of these humanitarian problems;
Reaffirming all previous relevant resolutions and, in particular, the Resolution No. 21/10-P(IS),
adopted by the Tenth Session of the Islamic Summit Conference held in Putrajaya, from 20 to 21 Shaban, 1424H (16-
17 October 2003);
Urging strict adherence to the Charter of the UN and full implementation of the relevant Security Council
resolutions;
Welcoming all diplomatic and other efforts for the settlement of the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan;
Reaffirming commitment by all Member States to respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political
independence of the Republic of Azerbaijan;
Noting also the destructive influence of the policy of aggression of the Republic of Armenia on the peace
process within the OSCE framework;
Taking note of the Report of the Secretary General (Document No. OIC/ICFM-34/POL/SGREP.6).

1. Strongly condemns the aggression of the Republic of Armenia against the Republic of Azerbaijan.
2. Considers the actions perpetrated against civilian Azerbaijani population in the occupied Azerbaijani
territories as crimes against humanity.
OIC/34-ICFM/2007/POL/R.7
3. Strongly condemns any looting and destruction of the archeological, cultural and religious monuments in the
occupied territories of Azerbaijan.
4. Strongly demands the strict implementation of the United Nations Security Council resolutions 822, 853, 874
and 884, and the immediate, unconditional and complete withdrawal of Armenian forces from all occupied Azerbaijani
territories including the Nagorno-Karabakh region and strongly urges Armenia to respect the sovereignty and territorial
integrity of the Republic of Azerbaijan.
5. Expresses its concern that Armenia has not yet implemented demands contained in the above stated UN
Security Council resolutions.e

Not many international organisations take Azerbaijan's side openly.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Well I take issue because first off I don't sympathise with the Nazis nor am I anti-Semitic or an Islamaphobe.

At least they will stand up for keeping Austria Austrian, which means Christian, and progressive. But they could tone down the other rhetoric.

Anyway, even though I don't have much of an issue with muslims, I realize why these parties make such statements. At the very least muslims are allowed in Christian countries and we allow them to have places of worship. A number of islamic nations do not or hinder non-muslims. So if they face some pressure in the west well it's about time the west remembered its Christian heritage.

[Federate]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

But wouldn't creating such a commission hamper any country in recognising, as they would say "well it still being debated so we should not say anything". Armenian Genocide as actually had a commission, with historians and scholars from different places (including Israel) that came together and affirmed the fact of the Genocide and wrote a letter to Erdogan telling him to recognise it. In my opinion, since Armenia has more to gain from this, Turkey wanted a concession from Armenia, and this commission was that concession - of course they got greedy and wanted Karabakh too, but fortunately nothing happened.

That was indeed one of the fears that it produced and I was and continue to be opposed to this measure. Then again, Serge might've thought it would be easy to prove the AG in a commission and we'd get this over with since we'd finally be solving it infront of their own (pseudo)historians so they could STFU already and we'd come out the winners and have more support for AG recognition. However, I don't agree with the strategy because of a possible filibuster by Turks, stalling the process for as much as they can. Also, the terms over this commission aren't even available to us. Who, how, when, why etc. were never addressed in regards to the proposed commission.

Well I would argue in some country's cases there is cultural solidarity. For example Turkey-Azerbaijan, but most of the cases it's just realpolitik - that's why I get mad when people start calling contemporary allies/friends as "brothers". Brothers can just as easily turn into enemies.

I agree, I don't believe in that sort of garbage either. Sure it helps forge alliances but they can just as easily crumble. It's a good way of enhancing bilateral relations but we must not be too dependent or blinded by it.

Several Arab countries have had Armenian minority, especially Lebanon, but I don't really know if that would be a basis for supporting Armenia over Azerbaijan. From my experience most Arabs don't know much about Armenia, except Arabs from Lebanon, naturally.

Support, no. Stay neutral, absolutely. Neutrality is a relative win for Armenia and a loss for Azerbaijan.

Arabs from Syria, Egypt and Palestine know about Armenians from my own and other peoples' experience. I would think they'd know us in Jordan too because of a strong community there. Kuwait and UAE nationals know us too (big Armenian migrant workforce in both countries). The rest, not so much I think.

OIC supported Azerbaijan throughout the war, and Azeris got support from rich Arab countries as well, not to mention Afghan fighters.

Here's an excerpt of the statement condemning Armenia by OIC

Not many international organisations take Azerbaijan's side openly.

Yeah the non-binding moral support that brought nothing to Azerbaijan. The OIC is as incapable of doing anything as any other international organisation. It's lip service Mos, nothing more. It's as I described the OIC in my previous post. It's superficial Muslim solidarity that in reality does not exist. They are forced to do this similar to how Serbia is forced to vote on the side of Azerbaijan at the UN.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

What you have against J3ws? I understand problems with Israel and the far-right J3ws, but I personally have no problem with J3ws and have known many actually, and have never had any problems. One thing I like about them is their emphasis on education, that is why in countries where there are many of them (e.g. USA) they have gained a lot of power leaving the non j3w whites behind.



Well I take issue because first off I don't sympathise with the Nazis nor am I anti-Semitic or an Islamaphobe.

I have nothing against J3ws (if you're referring to those who practice orthodox Judaism) just like I have nothing against Christians (those who practice Christianity). What I have a problem with are those that use the two to hide who they really are (fakes). Islam as a religion is ok but like all religions, it's meant for the spirituality of the individual and not the masses.

[Federate]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Entire speech by LTP from the protest on 01/03/11

...if you're like me and got bored by the 2nd minute of the above video, here's some entertainment.

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

At least they will stand up for keeping Austria Austrian, which means Christian, and progressive. But they could tone down the other rhetoric.

Anyway, even though I don't have much of an issue with muslims, I realize why these parties make such statements. At the very least muslims are allowed in Christian countries and we allow them to have places of worship. A number of islamic nations do not or hinder non-muslims. So if they face some pressure in the west well it's about time the west remembered its Christian heritage.

Well, I can understand them not wanting a Muslim immigrant overload, but I believe going and insulting Islam is going a bit to far. Same with some of their statements regarding Nazis which was over the line. Actually, when the right wing party formed a coalition with the main party, Israel and US recalled their ambassadors, and other EU countries refused to talk with any Austrian official. It was a rather big scandal.

That was indeed one of the fears that it produced and I was and continue to be opposed to this measure. Then again, Serge might've thought it would be easy to prove the AG in a commission and we'd get this over with since we'd finally be solving it infront of their own (pseudo)historians so they could STFU already and we'd come out the winners and have more support for AG recognition. However, I don't agree with the strategy because of a possible filibuster by Turks, stalling the process for as much as they can. Also, the terms over this commission aren't even available to us. Who, how, when, why etc. were never addressed in regards to the proposed commission.

Let's not forget, Turkey could also close the border whenever they wanted, coming up with some BS reason. Just like they came up with the Karabakh precedent.

Support, no. Stay neutral, absolutely. Neutrality is a relative win for Armenia and a loss for Azerbaijan.

Arabs from Syria, Egypt and Palestine know about Armenians from my own and other peoples' experience. I would think they'd know us in Jordan too because of a strong community there. Kuwait and UAE nationals know us too (big Armenian migrant workforce in both countries). The rest, not so much I think.

Well I can't really say there are "worthy" Armenians in UAE - I think you know what I mean. Is there evidence which side such Arab countries supported during the first war?

Yeah the non-binding moral support that brought nothing to Azerbaijan. The OIC is as incapable of doing anything as any other international organisation. It's lip service Mos, nothing more. It's as I described the OIC in my previous post. It's superficial Muslim solidarity that in reality does not exist. They are forced to do this similar to how Serbia is forced to vote on the side of Azerbaijan at the UN.

I agree it's lip service, but I would assume "friendly" Muslim countries to us like Iran would vote against it, as the resolution is clearly favouring Azerbaijan. But they actually voted for it, and so did countries like Syria, Jordan, and so on.

Has Albania supported our cause in international organisations thus?

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

and talking about how quickly alliances can crumble:

[Federate]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Well I can't really say there are "worthy" Armenians in UAE - I think you know what I mean. Is there evidence which side such Arab countries supported during the first war?

There's more than that actually. Tons of Syrian and Lebanese Armenians work in Dubai as engineers and in banking. I assume there is a Hayastantsi presence there now too because of all the newly established flights to Dubai (and for the right reasons). Internationally wanted criminal Vano Siradeghyan is reportedly hiding in Dubai too .

I agree it's lip service, but I would assume "friendly" Muslim countries to us like Iran would vote against it, as the resolution is clearly favouring Azerbaijan. But they actually voted for it, and so did countries like Syria, Jordan, and so on.

Has Albania supported our cause in international organisations thus?

Well, I don't know if the vote was unanimous or what not so maybe they abstained or did vote against it. But I would not expect them to vote against it for the simple reason that the members themselves recognise that their resolutions don't mean squat. They all do it for the sake of keeping the IOC as unanimous and united as possible, to hide the cracks of its foundation. They all recognise de-facto that it's non-binding and of little international importance. How else can we explain some of the same members refusing to vote for Azerbaijan at the UN in a similar resolution? They recognise the UN's vote is much more serious and is more important on an international scale than their useless conference.

BTW, about Jordan. They are making a lot of deals with Azerbaijan these days so I think we can safely say "f*ck Jordan" for now.

No, Albania doesn't support us (at least publicly) for a few reasons. They use the argument internationally that Kosovo is an independent state and not part of Albania so it is not their affairs. Then they claim that Kosovo is a unique case in the world which is an argument that is spewed by the NATO butchers constantly. And finally, they don't want to upset relations with Turkey and Azerbaijan. The last point briefly took a hit a few years back with the Albanian arms shipment and I think things are going to get worse with Azerbaijan voting pro-Serbia in the UN these days. None of this is an excuse of course, just explaining why I think they do not support Armenia publicly.