Current Condition of Armenia

[Mukuch]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Go to the streets in Europe and ask how much they love "Armenians", actually in Europe we are the same as Turks, Moroccans and other muslims. It was in Russia for the first time where they truly knew the difference between Armenians and other foreigners. .

Maybe you are , not me I live in a European country wher one Armenian name is enough to be mentioned to remain them what our nation is.

All you say applyes to any other country as well... russia is no diferent , it is just another state... unless you or your family is a victim of soviet rusification...

[Federate]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Tigranakert, you are making up a lot of claims that with all due respect sound like they come out from some Soviet anti-Dashnak agitprop. Dashnaks never hated Russians or Russia, they hated Bolsheviks and I thought most people here already made the distinction between Bolsheviks and Russians.

As for them allegedly not being politically mature or aware of realpolitik, here's what I wrote one page back.

Dashnaks might not like the Russian takeover of much of Armenia's strategic business and there has been thinly veiled criticism of Russia for this (seriously, which nationalist would approve of this?) but they recognise the importance Russia plays in Armenia's survival and are pro-Russian. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not been up to date with the organisation for the last decade. It was in Kocharyan's pro-Russian coalition for 10 years, opposes Western-approved Levonakan ANC, praised the renewal of the Russian base lease (this alone is already testament of their realism in relation to Russia) and when Azerbaijan was sold S-300s, Dashnaks recognised this as "Russia's right"."

It's foolish to think that a party that has managed to survive for decades without even an Armenia would not be politically mature.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

What exactly Dashnaks did bad? Facts please!!! I repeat I do not serve any party, but if choos to serve ARMENIAN TRULY NATIONAL party or to foreign country my chois will be obvious... in your case you would prefer russia

I serve no country, nor any party. I only serve what is in the best interest of my country.

In fact the funny thing is that I really lived and studied in russia... from 1985 to 1990. I know russians apparently much better than you do. You are talking about russian elite which is merely 5 percent of generla population (and by the way the elite is not ethnic russians in majority) and I am talking of 95% of population which dose not know even what is difference between Armenia and azerbajan. And if you say that russians are friends you probably ignorant about handreds of armenians getting beatten in russian streats (if not killed ) just for being NOT RUSSIANS.
In relation of parents I bet yours even didnt know they were Armenians.... before some one told them Otherways they would teach you more to trust your nation and not half-drunk Vania

False, utter false words and huge generalizations. I only care not about words, which European countries are good in, especially in braking their words, but I care about deeds. Russians are the main reason why Armenia exists today. Russia has been delivering us massive amounts of weapons for free or cheap, and I don't care if they do it for themselves or not, but Europeans and the West wouldn't care if Armenia existed or not.

You miss the point, I don't trust my nation to any foreigner. My point is, instead of your emotional ranting and stupid ideas, instead of liking democracy, communism, Russia, America, or whatever nation there is, we should try to infiltrate the system and try to turn the system so as to our own benefit. We should try to organize ourselves, politically and business-wise, all to serve the best interest of Armenia. In Russia we have a huge chance to succeed, and the gains are immense. We will gain nothing if we go with your "revolutionary" ideas and be anti-Russian. I despise people like you, you know why? Because you ignore the extremely anti-Armenian attitude of the West, but yet try to point out the "negatives" of the Russians. I don't care about Russians, I don't care about Americans, I only care for what is best for our country.

I bet more ethnic Russians are killed by people from the Caucasus than vice versa. Russia has a problem with criminality and killings, but it's typical of Russia, this does not mean the overall population is anti-Armenian or whatsoever. The important thing is that the business world, the political world and the military world in Russia is open to Armenians! Don't you seem to understand this? This is not the case for Armenians in most of the Western countries, and we don't even have the abilities in other countries to be so influential as in Russia. I think this is one step too much thinking for you, as you are just one of those poorly educated revolutionary minds who is only good at shouting and especially not thinking.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Tigranakert, you are making up a lot of claims that with all due respect sound like they come out from some Soviet anti-Dashnak agitprop. Dashnaks never hated Russians or Russia, they hated Bolsheviks and I thought most people here already made the distinction between Bolsheviks and Russians.

As for them allegedly not being politically mature or aware of realpolitik, here's what I wrote one page back.

It's foolish to think that a party that has managed to survive for decades without even an Armenia would not be politically mature.

False, most Dashnaks hate Russia. I have met and discussed with a lot of Dashnaks, and most of them don't see the difference between Soviet Union and the current Russian Federation. Their children are raised with an anti-Russian attitude, they are not told the difference between the Bolsheviks and the Russians. I am not talking about some of the Dashnak politicians in Armenia, but to their followers, especially in the West and Americas.

I am of the opinion that a small land-locked poor country as Armenia, can't do or survive on it's own, as some people want to believe. We are no super nation nor superheroes, we should try our best to influence other nations, politically and economically, from the within, which is where are strength lies with such a huge Diaspora. Unfortunately, most of the people don't see this.

[Mukuch]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Dashnaks never hated Russians or Russia, they hated Bolsheviks and I thought most people here already made the distinction between Bolsheviks and Russians.

Yah most made the distinction

Dashnaks not just never hated russia, they have been supported by Russian Empire in Ottoman Turkey. But Dashnaks never LOVED Russia the way "tigranakert" do (by the way why dosent he call himself yaroslavl or vladimir insted?). All right I do not hate russia, russia is our POLITICAL allie... but never take your pants of for russia otherways you will become a..... "tigranak..." xxxx cant offend that name

[Mukuch]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

I am of the opinion that a small land-locked poor country as Armenia, can't do or survive on it's own, as some people want to believe. We are no super nation nor superheroes.

Yes we are if we belive we are... if we dont than we are just "tigranak"s

we should try our best to influence other nations, politically and economically, from the within, which is where are strength lies with such a huge Diaspora.

You see that we are ?

Unfortunately, most of the people don't see this.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Mukuch, keep on living in your fantasy world. Your words don't make any sense, it's just ranting. You are ignoring my posts, what part of "infiltrating" the Russian political, economical and military scene to influence it the way which is mostly beneficial for Armenia means I take my pants off for them? It is you who does not believe in the capabilities of the Armenians, not me.

Just for people like you I hope that one day Russia cuts of the support, so that superheroes like you can, on your own, fight the Turks, Azerbaijanis, Great Britain, Georgians and their Western allies.

Ah.. when will people understand that it's not only the fighting capabilities of us Armenians, but most importantly the political capabilities (of influencing other countries and nations, from the within) which will determine the future of our country?

[Mukuch]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Mukuch, keep on living in your fantasy world. Your words don't make any sense, it's just ranting. You are ignoring my posts, what part of "infiltrating" the Russian political, economical and military scene to influence it the way which is mostly beneficial for Armenia means I take my pants off for them? It is you who does not believe in the capabilities of the Armenians, not me.

Just for people like you I hope that one day Russia cuts of the support, so that superheroes like you can, on your own, fight the Turks, Azerbaijanis, Great Britain, Georgians and their Western allies.

Ah.. when will people understand that it's not only the fighting capabilities of us Armenians, but most importantly the political capabilities (of influencing other countries and nations, from the within) which will determine the future of our country?

No need to fight anyone,tigranak, we must fight our own complexes... that what I tried to expline to you... turks never will attack us. ... well Great Brirtain probably just deraming about Armenia.... well who left? azeris? let them attack us
Did you say anything wrong about jwes?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

No need to fight anyone,tigranak, we must fight our own complexes... that what I tried to expline to you... turks never will attack us. ... well Great Brirtain probably just deraming about Armenia.... well who left? azeris? let them attack us
Did you say anything wrong about jwes?

Turks will never attack us. This says enough about you. I rest my case, you are one hopeless soul. Why did I even bother to discuss with you? Waste of my precious time.

You should kiss the feet of the Russians for protecting our borders with Turkey.

[Eddo211]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

What will not happen with turkey?

The chances of Turkey attacking Armenia are very low compared to 1993. In fact stability is what Turkey needs, including big pressure from US. This doesn’t mean that events may not unfold in an unexpected way, and maybe such conditions would come up that the temptation would be sufficiently high and the general chain of events would lead to a decision of that kind, so we can’t say for 100% but today and especially since 2002 it seems very unreal.

Fact:

Neither Russia nor Turkey wants to damage the increasingly beneficial economic and strategic relationship over Nagorno-Karabakh, let alone an attack on Armenia. Peaceful transformation of the status quo is in the best interests of both. In fact Turkey’s influence on Baku on not attacking NKR is a major factor in preventing hostilities regardless of their military aid and support.

Also I think

An invasion and occupation of Armenia will threaten the Russian influence in the region which Russia will not be taking sitting down, with or without Armenia.

Iran is not the same weak country as it was at the signing of Turmanchay and they will have a say.

Such bullying actions against a small Nation without provocation will not be taken well in Europe, US, and Middle East and will be against Davutoglu’s foreign strategy. A new NK war is no justification for Turkish military involvement against Armenia proper. The new treaty between Turkey and Azerbaijan is not being ratified in Ankara.

Not much to profit from such pan Turkic (Neo Ottomanism. Pax-Ottoman) move when the rest of the Turkic states (Expect Azerbaijan) don’t really approve of the Turkish model (other than economics maybe) while again Russia and Iran would not want to loose regional power.

The West wants to establish energy corridors with very big investments which would require stability.

As far as the blockade and border closing neither the Turks or the Armenian businessmen want them closed. If it weren’t for massive lobbying from Baku during the protocols the borders would probably be open now (with other 2 preconditions in discussion). As I understand there are flights from Yerevan to Istanbul.