Current Condition of Armenia

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You can't expect Armenians in Diaspora to just give that up (AG recognition).....as useless as it may be it is one angle that needs to be continued, maybe use a different strategy not so much to get the recognition but to use it (or withdraw it) as an advantage in other ways (in congress, not public demonstrations). I have already told you how I feel about it, even though I attend the demonstrations every year.

Question: Why are not the Russian Armenian lobby as hard as US Armenians (like how they stop US on weapon sells to Azerbaijan to most degree)?

Got to run (work calls), hook back up later

I think we are all in agreement that the current model used by Armenian lobbying groups in the US is not working too well, at least in reference to the Genocide question. And it is not so much the fault of the Armenian organizations, but rather the fact that the Genocide recognition is a useful tool of policy-makers in Washington to keep the Turks at bay should they get uppity. And as long as turkey is a geopolitical ally of the US, the latter will not recognize the Genocide.

Well advocacy groups are almost non existent in Russia. So it is not built into their political system. There it truly is about connections and little else, the pretense of public voice counting is dismissed. In the US there's a lot of lip service paid to the public's involvement in politics, but as we have seen, what the people want is trumped by what Wall Street and large corporations want. If you expected Russia to stop selling any arms to azerbaijan you'd have to ask yourself why they would stop. They have no serious issues with them like they do with the Georgians, and they do not want to lose all ties with baku just because of the Artsakh conflict. This is similar to how the US would aid israel, fund the PA, and also sell arms to the saudis. Did I understand your question correctly?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

If you really want to see a concentration of capital and business in few hands look no further than the media/entertainment/telecommunication industry in the US. Four companies run the show, and they collude on a regular basis. Or how about the big banks? Citi, BoA, Chase, and Goldman Sachs. Oligarchies exist in all societies, it is just that the US, thanks to its geography has been able to amass great amounts of wealth, so that the scraps falling off the edge of the proverbial table are more than enough to keep the sheeple content with their lives. After all, OWS started because Americans realized they couldn't find a job to pay for their two cars, big screen TV, and air conditioning.

Are you really comparing banks to Armenian oligarchs? Please explain to me how it is the same.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Most of the Armenian Lobby in US is composed of Western Armenians who don't have a real connection to modern day Armenia, thus the Genocide issue for them becomes full priority as most are descendants of Genocide survivors anyway.

Well that would be me....the stories of my grandfather at 16 with his mosn nagant will raise the hair on your back.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I think we are all in agreement that the current model used by Armenian lobbying groups in the US is not working too well, at least in reference to the Genocide question. And it is not so much the fault of the Armenian organizations, but rather the fact that the Genocide recognition is a useful tool of policy-makers in Washington to keep the Turks at bay should they get uppity. And as long as turkey is a geopolitical ally of the US, the latter will not recognize the Genocide.

right, and this is what I mean by using it ourselves as a tool....as terrible as that notion might be.

Well advocacy groups are almost non existent in Russia. So it is not built into their political system. There it truly is about connections and little else, the pretense of public voice counting is dismissed. In the US there's a lot of lip service paid to the public's involvement in politics, but as we have seen, what the people want is trumped by what Wall Street and large corporations want. If you expected Russia to stop selling any arms to azerbaijan you'd have to ask yourself why they would stop. They have no serious issues with them like they do with the Georgians, and they do not want to lose all ties with baku just because of the Artsakh conflict. This is similar to how the US would aid israel, fund the PA, and also sell arms to the saudis. Did I understand your question correctly?

Thats interesting how things work there.....looks like Armenians in US are more successful in this field.

As far as Weapon sells I rather have Russia sell Azeris arms than others, however certain sells by Russia must be challenged by Russian Armenians with their connection when such weapons/aircraft puts Armenian soldiers in an disadvantage.

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well that would be me....the stories of my grandfather at 16 with his mosn nagant will raise the hair on your back.

My family also has some horrible stories. We are Sasunci by the way and other half from Naxijevan. Both areas invaded and cleansed by Turks. Fortunately they were able to escape to Yerevan with Andranik's help of course.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

I have already ascertained that a revolution should not a be a violent one.

Hanging a few dozen oligarchs from the gateways of their mansions isn't that violent an act as revolutions go.

[skaterava]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Perhaps this isn't my place to speak, being someone who has very little connection to his Armenian heritage other than a few anecdotes passed down from his parents, but from my perspective it seems Armenia's economic difficulties stem from two key factors. Firstly, the territory that makes up the current Armenian state is not particularly resource-rich; reparations in the form of territory succession would combat this. But the West do not want another Israel, and so I don't see territory expansion happening any time soon, unless the Armenian government decide to seize Azeri territory. Secondly, Armenia is surrounded on three sides by inappropriate states. The perpetrators to the west, what is effectively a satellite State to the east, and a State to the south with a less than stellar reputation in inter-religion relations. Substantial trade (by which I mean trade that would facilitate a significant step forward of the Armenian economy) will be inherently difficult. My heart wants a new Sevres Treaty, but my brain tells me Armenia's future is not a prosperous one, unless it can either take it for itself, or convince the powers that be that investing in them would be a lucrative venture.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Perhaps this isn't my place to speak, being someone who has very little connection to his Armenian heritage other than a few anecdotes passed down from his parents, but from my perspective it seems Armenia's economic difficulties stem from two key factors. Firstly, the territory that makes up the current Armenian state is not particularly resource-rich; reparations in the form of territory succession would combat this. But the West do not want another Israel, and so I don't see territory expansion happening any time soon, unless the Armenian government decide to seize Azeri territory. Secondly, Armenia is surrounded on three sides by inappropriate states. The perpetrators to the west, what is effectively a satellite State to the east, and a State to the south with a less than stellar reputation in inter-religion relations. Substantial trade (by which I mean trade that would facilitate a significant step forward of the Armenian economy) will be inherently difficult. My heart wants a new Sevres Treaty, but my brain tells me Armenia's future is not a prosperous one, unless it can either take it for itself, or convince the powers that be that investing in them would be a lucrative venture.

You have more or less hit it on the head. I do not agree with your views on Iran. They are Armenia's only reliable neighbor, and they actually have a good track record of taking care of Armenian issues within their borders. Armenia will need to expand northeast and/or northwest to the Black Sea. A land border with Russia would be a huge benefit, just as an outlet to the Black Sea would do wonders for the Armenian economy. As was pointed out many times, the key to getting our occupied lands back lies not in Yerevan or within the Diaspora, it lies in Moscow. This is why I and others emphasize that convincing policy-makers in the Kremlin to help or at least not hinder Armenians in a future war with azerbaijan ought to be a pan-Armenian effort. To me this is more important than US recognizing the Genocide. The former puts us in an active mode, while the latter continues the victim mentality that is too prevalent among Armenians already.

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

You have more or less hit it on the head. I do not agree with your views on Iran. They are Armenia's only reliable neighbor, and they actually have a good track record of taking care of Armenian issues within their borders. Armenia will need to expand northeast and/or northwest to the Black Sea. A land border with Russia would be a huge benefit, just as an outlet to the Black Sea would do wonders for the Armenian economy. As was pointed out many times, the key to getting our occupied lands back lies not in Yerevan or within the Diaspora, it lies in Moscow. This is why I and others emphasize that convincing policy-makers in the Kremlin to help or at least not hinder Armenians in a future war with azerbaijan ought to be a pan-Armenian effort. To me this is more important than US recognizing the Genocide. The former puts us in an active mode, while the latter continues the victim mentality that is too prevalent among Armenians already.

People under-estimate the friendliness of Iran towards Armenia. Towards our cultural heritage within their borders and their favoured stance towards us in the region (Karabakh issue). They are also reliably anti-Turkic both currently and historically. Our relationship with them is critical.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Thats interesting how things work there.....looks like Armenians in US are more successful in this field.

Not really. http://asbarez.com/103698/state-dept...ri-aggression/

At least the Russians do not lie thru their teeth about selling weapons and how it may be used.