Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

[lampron]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

Duh.

But that doesn't make Russia(ns) benevolent, charitable, law-abiding, etc.

Also, you can criticize Armenia(ns) without teetering on the edge of Ara Baliozianesque fatalist, psychotic, monotonous misery (see bell-the-cat's posts, for example).

you talk like someone who has never depended on Armenian charity - how lucky you are!

from another thread on this forum, Armenian villager speaking

"If it wasn't for the Russians, we'd starve. We are big backers
of Putin and Medvedev. Those who feed and keep us, they are our
presidents," he said.

you will notice he does not even mention the diasapora Armenian Dashnak, Hunchak and Ramgavar political parties

he does not mention Armenian church

for low income Armenians (60% or more), Russia is saving them not fellow Armenians!

what does that tell you about Armenian charity?

it doesn't take rocket science to work out why most Syrian Armenian see Armenia as a short term stop over destination

[hrai]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

Are you telling me refugees with no money didn't want to stay in a country in the midst of a war, completely blockaded, a year removed from one of the worst natural disasters of the century, and no economy whatsoever?
Wow that was clearly the non existent Armenian governments fault, for not being able to provide people a home, while trying to not get eradicated off the map, while trying to win a unwinable war, while trying to rebuild a shattered economy with blockaded borders, while trying to rebuild an earthquake hit region without any resources.

How is it a surprise that people chose go to Russia rather than in a country born in the midst of hell, where any given day they could have been bombed to death?

How is that Armenia's fault?

Moreover How is that pertinent to today's situation?



If you read the "Current Conditions in Armenia" thread, you will see that everything you say is wrong. That I argued the exact opposite point, that I can absolutely understand how someone from Syria can chose to not stay in Armenia and nobody living in the EU/US has the right to criticize them.

I can accept rejecting a blindly fanatic nationalistic point of view of ignoring any and all problems and pretending everything is fine

What I don't accept is the forever pessimistic and destructive point of view of people like yourself, who offer no constructing criticism, who refuse to acknowledge all of the progress and positive in Armenia, fail to understand the situation in relations to all of the factors that cause it, and just continuously regurgitate this disease of negativity with no end.

It's people like yourself that create divisions amongst Armenians, that make Armenians turn away from charities for their homeland, that make Armenians lose all hope for their homeland, and who are responsible for the cancerous «Էս երկիրը երկիր չի» mentality, SHAME ON YOU




Stop defaming Armenians, stop creating divisions, stop making Armenian seem like some hell hole, and take some before responding

Well said Mher

[Mher]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

Fact: most of the refugees from Azerbaijan went on to Russia after a brief stay in Armenia and almost no help went to these refugees from the loud mouth Armenian political parties and the Armenian church

Are you telling me refugees with no money didn't want to stay in a country in the midst of a war, completely blockaded, a year removed from one of the worst natural disasters of the century, and no economy whatsoever?
Wow that was clearly the non existent Armenian governments fault, for not being able to provide people a home, while trying to not get eradicated off the map, while trying to win a unwinable war, while trying to rebuild a shattered economy with blockaded borders, while trying to rebuild an earthquake hit region without any resources.

How is it a surprise that people chose go to Russia rather than in a country born in the midst of hell, where any given day they could have been bombed to death?

How is that Armenia's fault?

Moreover How is that pertinent to today's situation?

everything you heard that life could not be better for them is exactly the opposite of what I have heard. Read the quote in my post above. You live comfortably and you like to believe in fairly tales? That's up to you

If you read the "Current Conditions in Armenia" thread, you will see that everything you say is wrong. That I argued the exact opposite point, that I can absolutely understand how someone from Syria can chose to not stay in Armenia and nobody living in the EU/US has the right to criticize them.

I can accept rejecting a blindly fanatic nationalistic point of view of ignoring any and all problems and pretending everything is fine

What I don't accept is the forever pessimistic and destructive point of view of people like yourself, who offer no constructing criticism, who refuse to acknowledge all of the progress and positive in Armenia, fail to understand the situation in relations to all of the factors that cause it, and just continuously regurgitate this disease of negativity with no end.

It's people like yourself that create divisions amongst Armenians, that make Armenians turn away from charities for their homeland, that make Armenians lose all hope for their homeland, and who are responsible for the cancerous «Էս երկիրը երկիր չի» mentality, SHAME ON YOU

so as a half-Syrian Armenian who has studied at the AGBU you know all about living at the mercy of Armenian crooks in Armenia? And having suffered under them you are convinced that life in Russia would necessarily be worse?

Stop defaming Armenians, stop creating divisions, stop making Armenia seem like some hell hole, and take some time responding

[Eddo211]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

Armenia is not a welcoming place for poor or homeless Armenians! There is no solidarity! If you are an Armenian from abroad with money, you might be better accepted (because you might be of help to them through your financial position or contacts abroad), but you will probably be faced with envy. This is the root of the problem with Armenians, but we don't see detailed discussions anywhere

Syrians are mostly going to Russia, not Armenia or Georgia. Armenians from Syria are likely to be better received in Russia than Armenia

Armenia as a small landlocked country surrounded by enemies who blockade and a young republic finally risen from ashes cannot efficiently absorb refugees be it Armenians or not.....to say most Armenian rather live somewhere else is bulldust. Syrian Armenians maybe forced move to a location other than Armenia but it would have nothing to do with their desire to live in Armenia but much more to do with economics.

[TomServo]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

I'm not wrong, sorry to disappoint!

what I said is not absurd at all! If ever you want to find out the truth ask an Armenian who has depended on the charity of other Armenians

Among Armenians charity is almost non existent - exploitation and abuse, you will find plenty!

but you probably knew this already...

Duh.

But that doesn't make Russia(ns) benevolent, charitable, law-abiding, etc.

Also, you can criticize Armenia(ns) without teetering on the edge of Ara Baliozianesque fatalist, psychotic, monotonous misery (see bell-the-cat's posts, for example).

[lampron]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

Is that any more absurd than your "Syrian Armenians are likely to be better received in Russia" declaration?

My declaration on corruption and xenophobia in Russia doesn't exactly require fieldwork since it's been--and is continuing to be--documented by journalists from within and without Russia. Read a book or a newspaper, please. Ellen Barry's series on the judicial system in the NYT, maybe?

You're wrong on this one, lampron. I know it hurts to admit it but the truth is a harsh mistress.

I'm not wrong, sorry to disappoint!

what I said is not absurd at all! If ever you want to find out the truth ask an Armenian who has depended on the charity of other Armenians

Among Armenians charity is almost non existent - exploitation and abuse, you will find plenty!

but you probably knew this already...

[TomServo]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

So having lived in both Russia and the other countries you are able declare that

The corruption and oligarchy is just as bad as in any of the Central Asian or Caucasian states.

now you have convinced me!

Is that any more absurd than your "Syrian Armenians are likely to be better received in Russia" declaration?

My declaration on corruption and xenophobia in Russia doesn't exactly require fieldwork since it's been--and is continuing to be--documented by journalists from within and without Russia. Read a book or a newspaper, please. Ellen Barry's series on the judicial system in the NYT, maybe?

You're wrong on this one, lampron. I know it hurts to admit it but the truth is a harsh mistress.

[londontsi]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

http://www.azatutyun.am/content/article/25041395.html

More Syrians Move To Armenia



Syrians of Armenian descent have continued to take refuge in Armenia in recent months, raising to around 10,000 the number of such people currently living in their ancestral homeland, a government official in Yerevan said on Tuesday.

Lusine Stepanian, a representative of the Armenian Ministry of Diaspora, said the figure is the latest government estimate of the size of the Syrian Armenian refugee population in the country.

The ministry spoke late last year of some 6,000 Syrian Armenians based in Armenia. Many of them fled Syria after fierce fighting reached Aleppo, the Arab state’s largest city.

The once-thriving Armenian community in Syria numbered an estimated 80,000 members before the outbreak of the brutal civil war there two years ago. Most of them lived in Aleppo.

The Armenian government last year took a series of measures to make it easier for Syrian Armenians to settle in Armenia. President Serzh Sarkisian said in May that the government will continue to do its best to alleviate their plight.

However, the government is too cash-strapped to provide large-scale economic assistance to the refugees. Many of them are struggling to find decent housing and jobs in the impoverished country.

According to Stepanian, most of the Syrian Armenians live in rented apartments in Yerevan. She said they are increasingly relocating from the city’s expensive center to outskirts where housing prices are considerably lower.

“Around 600 Syrian Armenian families have expressed a desire to buy apartments in Armenia with state support,” Stepanian told RFE/RL’s Armenian service (Azatutyun.am). “Three hundred of those families have already applied for buying apartments in the New Aleppo neighborhood in Ashtarak.”

In Stepanian’s words, the applicants will pay half of the cost of the apartments to be built in the town 20 kilometers west of Yerevan. Private benefactors will provide the rest of the funding, the official said, adding that the government has already set aside land for the Ashtarak neighborhood.

Salpi Javakhchurian and her family moved to Yerevan from Aleppo earlier this year, leaving behind an expensive house and three shops owned by them. The family has decided to buy an apartment in the Armenian capital.

“This is our homeland,” explained Javakhchurian. “I feel like this is my city. There is hardship and some people may offend us, but nobody can tell us to get out of here.”

[londontsi]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

....... living at the mercy of Armenian crooks in Armenia?
And having suffered under them you are convinced that life in Russia would necessarily be worse?

If you look at the immigrant hierarch in your own society you would see where
in the pecking order would somebody without the knowledge of the local language be.

They would be right at the bottom, candidates for exploitation and abuse irrespective of their education or expertise.
Trying to support a family under those circumstances would be soul destroying.
I have seen it too often in the UK.

Considering this, to suggest a typical Syrian Armenian who is fairly streetwise and ambitious would accept this alternative
does not hold water.

After all Syria was (is) not Pakistan or Bangladesh and the Syrian Armenians the untouchables ( Harijan ) of the subcontinent.

P.S.
I follow the Armenian media fairly closely.
The only comment as pressing issue I have noted is housing.
Apparently they prefer houses as opposed to apartments.
I understand subsidies have been allocated towards buying land for this purpose (for the Syrian Armenians).

.
One more thing .... the neighbourhood of Nor-Haleb has also been created.


.

[lampron]

Re: Christians from Syria and Egypt seek refuge in the Caucasus

Have you interviewed them? Or is this just another fact? They have moved there for economic reasons, not because Russia is "better than their own countries." The corruption and oligarchy is just as bad as in any of the Central Asian or Caucasian states.

I've never been to the AUB.

So having lived in both Russia and the other countries you are able declare that

The corruption and oligarchy is just as bad as in any of the Central Asian or Caucasian states.

now you have convinced me!