The Armenian Empire

[Thai-Samurai]

where is that country? oh yeah what about Castro he did a good job kind of.

[garegin]

thats an island off the coast of india.

[Anonymouse]

No, not imperialism or expansion. Armenia is faaar away from accomplishing things of that sort. Economic prosperity; less corruption; enforcement of laws (did you know people actually spit at police officers in armenia?) Before Armenia's independance from the USSR, would you not say that the poverty levels were less? People had jobs? The law (even though harsh at times) was enforced? What do you see now? You have a small majority that control most of Armenia's wealth and it is mainly located in the capital and its outskirts. You have people in nearby cities and villages on the point of starvation. No housing, no jobs, not even proper sanitation.

The reason Armenia is where it is today, is because of 70 plus years of Socialist/Statist bliss. It sounds like what you're advocating is more government and all governments are socialistic. Forget it, it's a dead dream. The fallacy of statism was clear in the 20th century yet people don't learn from history. The solutions are not more government, because it is precisely government that allows the minority clique in control now to rise to the top.

You are right, economic stability can not be created by a leader, but by the people. But what happens when you take away leadership from these people? For decades they have been used to strong leadership. Now that's gone, every person for himself. You need a leader to establish a strong govt, one that is not corrupt, one that will fight corruption and not turn a blind eye towards it.

All governments are corrupt because that is the nature of politics and politicial systems. The free market and capitalism is what creates wealth and economic stability, not politicians.

Here's a small example, in how many US airports do you have to bribe the guy checking your luggage to let you through? Then take a look at Armenia. You could argue that the attendants taking the bribes have families to feed (in most cases its true), which brings me to my "every person for himself" point. Its a tremendous task in the undertaking, but it has to start at some point.

Even in strong governments people act "every person to himself". That is the nature of individuals, since all individuals act anarchically. You cannot expect people all to act in concert unless they were mindless automatons with no free will. Or the other alternative is if you had a tyrannical dictatorship which forced people to act in concert, and if you didn't you paid a price, which would be unethical. If some people find that justifiable then such people have no ethics, and I know how some of you view this. "Why be ethical?" Don't, but such tyrannies do not last because they contain the seeds of their own downfall. You can never control people, and only for so long.

However, the sad state of affairs in Armenia are more a result of 70 plus years of socialist bliss, and the fact that the culture has been influenced by Russia and the Soviet Union which has no culture of individualism itself, and even during Communism, I remember how my mother would tell me that business and businessmen were frowned upon, and success of individuals were not good since they were "bourgeois". Anything outside of the collective mob mentality was not a good thing. As such, all strong centralized systems are closed systems, therefore the blueprint for their own destructions are inherent in those systems. They are not like open which they can grow, adapt, and expand, and give rise to the creative forces that are necessary for the well being of any people and society, as Arnold Toynbee once said. An open system is which the free market is. If you want jobs in Armenia you can begin by removing all wage laws, tarrifs, trade restrictions, and any other regulation on the market, to then maybe have a company like Ford or someone establish plants there, thereby creating jobs. It takes time for people that came out of nearly a century of socialism to try to adapt to a market society. It doesn't happen overnight.

[Thai-Samurai]

That's a good idea. We can do what Japan did, just make car parts for America.

[CatWoman]

What do you guys think about this article? http://www.eurasianet.org/department...pp092904.shtml

[winoman]

What are you hypocrites talking about? For a people that have always been victims of empires, it seems hypocritical that they would have not learned from history. Don't be idiots. If you want lands back, do what the Mexicans are doing in Southwest United States, breed and displace the others.

wow I don't know if I've ever agreed with anything you have posted before...but I do agree with you here (the first part very much)...and I imagine I share your concern for the (mostly ignorant) state of Armenian youth here in the states....

[gevo]

So who thinks we should strike out and take Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Iran and create a new Empire?

this is a stupid unrealistic question... armenians can only barely defend themselves.. an attack would be more like a self imposed holocaust... thats just the nature of armenians.. (ok people, dont bite my head off, i know this is a huge generalization, take it lightly :P!!!! )

[garegin]

this "debate" is foolish. we can barely secure our land. we should be focused more on rebuilding armenia rather than making plans for reconquista.

[Shiva]

What's interesting is for peace loving people we can certainly fight and win if we try... its been proven... the reason we lost so much land is we sat around and let people take it from us instead of fighting back. But whenever we've been forced to take up arms, we are fierce warriors.

[garegin]

true that one is true.
but armenia cannot realisticly take back any lands in the near future. there are no plans or objectives. and you know what happens when u dont have detailed plans . even very brave japs lost to the allies. why? because allies had a much larger army. the only way we could win, is through guirella warfare.